Buyer/tracking info says delivered including a picture

[low.uk9]

Hello, I have came across this subject a few times today but feel I need to make my own post for my own conscience as I am not sure if I am handling the problem correctly as I have only been selling just short of two months. 

The buyer selected EVRI Tracked so I bought the label on the eBay app and they scanned it at the shop and put a label on it and off the parcel went. 

It arrived in 2 days but whilst the buyer was at work. They checked the tracking at work and saw it was delivered. They got home and it was not there. 

I have checked tracking on the EVRI app and can see the parcel was left in front of their front door. eBay and the EVRI app both show delivered. 

I have done all that is needed as a seller right? Surely I am not responsible for if the parcel has been stolen (or even worse, whats stopping the buyer from getting home, bringing the item inside and simply claiming it weren't there) 

if it has genuinely gone missing I do feel bad but I am not sure why I would have to refund and do the running around to and from EVRI. 

has anyone got any definitive answers to my situation. 

i am also from the UK

[*guinevere*]

The tracking shows delivered so you don't have to refund, it is that simple.

You could take it up with Evri that the parcel was left in an unsafe place, but we don't know what arrangements the buyer has with their courier regarding leaving items in a safe place. And we don't know what Evri's policies are regarding stolen parcels.  Just see what they say.

[four_mid_able]

"The buyer selected EVRI Tracked".

Your buyer had no other option as Evri is the only option you offer.

As far as their claim goes ,see other posts.It's probably the 2nd most popular topic currently being posted about.

Seems sellers win sometimes and buyers win others.There is nothing normal about the differing outcomes from what iv'e read.

[low.uk9]

Yes I have contacted EVRI anyway but don't expect much as there is proof it was left at the property. Not sure much more can be provided other than that. 

[*vyolla*]

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@low.uk9 wrote:

I have checked tracking on the EVRI app and can see the parcel was left in front of their front door. eBay and the EVRI app both show delivered. 

I have done all that is needed as a seller right? Surely I am not responsible for if the parcel has been stolen (or even worse, whats stopping the buyer from getting home, bringing the item inside and simply claiming it weren't there) 

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I'm going to disagree with popular opinion here, only because a courier leaving a parcel outside somebody's front door is just daft on their part, and they are not supposed to do that, and as you hired Evri to deliver you should be pursuing this with them.

Evri have done the same to me 3 times, and each time I have issued a not received chargeback via my card provider (if your buyer funded the payment with a debit or credit card they can do the same), which results in a full refund plus a £14 fee for the seller (unless your buyer has already been through an eBay item not received claim and it's been found in your favour, then it will be a refund but eBay will absorb the £14 fee).

[kempseykate]

I do think buyers have to take some responsibility. If you know a certain courier leaves items in unsafe places, don't buy from seller that use that courier. If you are not going to be in have the item sent Click & Collect, or to a friend/relatives address. 

It really annoys me this casual, well I'll order anyway, if it gets nicked I can do a chargeback, attitude. And of course, there will be some reading about the chargeback option that will just use that with their next delivery, whether it was received or not 😞

We are mostly in for deliveries, but if I think we will be out, I make arrangements (C&C, neighbour, safeplace) so that the parcel isn't left on the doorstep.

[*vyolla*]

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@kempseykate wrote:

It really annoys me this casual, well I'll order anyway, if it gets nicked I can do a chargeback, attitude. And of course, there will be some reading about the chargeback option that will just use that with their next delivery, whether it was received or not 😞

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I wouldn't say that issuing a chargeback is something you do lightly, more than a couple in a year and your card provider will flag you up, but they do require proof of delivery and will not accept a photo of a package outside of a property. 

Evri aren't supposed to do this, they're supposed to deliver the item to the buyer and if they can't they need to leave a card for the buyer to arrange redelivery for a time they will be available (same as DPD and other courier companies do). I know that Evri are a budget couriers and won't do this, but this is why they continue to operate so badly in some areas (I know it's down to who you get as a driver, some are great and some are dire and most just don't care).

As a buyer I wouldn't be taking any responsibility in this case, I'd expect the seller to chase it with Evri and ask why they think that leaving a parcel outside is considered a safe and successful delivery. I've always warned sellers that I'll need to issue a chargeback to get a refund and that there'll be an additional fee for them to pay to give them the chance to liaise with the courier themselves and make a claim (which is what they should be doing).

[dancewithadingo]

Good Morning Low

A very tricky situation.  May I suggest that in future you use Royal Mail who wouldn't do what Evri has,ie dump a package and run. Unbelievable. I was under the impression that Evri  are supposed to make three attempts to deliver. They wouldn't know how to spell professionalism let alone know what it means.

Without wishing to tempt fate I have always found RM to be outstanding. Give them a whirl.

Good luck.

[susapric-68]

There is no definitive answer to this i'm afraid. You used Evri and they have a history of just dumping items on the doorstep and taking photos, my local driver does not even check to see if anyone is in as they get paid per delivery so want to get to the next delivery as quick as possible.

According to Evri site they will attempt 3 deliveries so have failed in that unless the buyer requested a doorstep as a safe place.

The next step is aking the buyer to open a none recived item claim with eBay, as you have tracking you will win that and like @*vyolla* said if they open a claim then with their payment provider ebay will absorb the £14 bank chargeback fee and depends how much the item is might also refund out of their own pockets as you followed your senders responsibilty and are covered by eBay. But you might end up refunding out of your pocket and having to chase up Evri for it, point out a door is a public area and no 3 attempts were made so it has not been delivered to the buyer

Avoid sending by Evri or whatever their next new name will be

[shirtsnthings1]

Seemingly you did not like the answers you were given on Reddit regarding this (although your story was slightly different there)

I see you did not take on board the advice given to you regarding Evri either.

[rjwilmsi]

This is one of the problems with using Evri - their drivers are normally overworked and underpaid so are desparate to get items delivered. They will then do silly things like leaving items on doorsteps in full view of the road. Any old so-and-so can then come along and steal it. Of course, it's not sure that's what happened in this case - buyer may be lying but we don't know.

In my experience salaried workers such as RM posties, ParcelForce drivers don't do that (dump items on doorsteps) because they are not paid per delivery so if recipient isn't home it's no bother, they just leave a card / try again next day. They have no direct incentive to take shortcuts.

In this case, if the buyer opens an Item Not Received case with eBay then you as the seller will likely win it because the tracking shows item delivered, and eBay are unlikely to be able to properly assess from a single photo whether the item was left safe or not. Or, eBay may decide against you, because they conclude the photo does show item not left safe.

Unfortunately it will be the same debate with Evri for a claim: does the photo prove item left safe, item NOT left safe, or is it inconclusive. I expect Evri will ignore you, and/or tell you photo shows item left safe, so refuse any loss claim.

If the buyer loses the eBay INR case they may then go to their bank for a chargeback (which if item was actually stolen due to not left safe, they should). Chargebacks seem to work such that the seller has to prove the reason for the chargeback is invalid, which is normally very hard or impossible to do - will the delivery photo prove to the bank that item was definitely left safe? I think not.

So unfortunately you the seller may end up out of pocket here. You may want to reconsider whether to use EVRI in future for items of any value.

[floral.lines.supplies]

The buyer didn't select Evri - the buyer had no choice as that's the only courier you offer apart from click and collect but even thats troublesome because sometimes they won't accept parcels or they'll return after a few days but certainly after 7 days.

Change your default postal service to another company or give the buyer more choices.

Don't forget the buyer could go to their bank and do a chargeback with will be costly if they win.

[*vyolla*]

I see that Evri are trending right now on Twitter with tales of horror (some fab videos too). 

[low.uk9]

I have said multiple times I have contacted EVRI with a stern email asking why they have left a parcel unattended on a door step. Am awaiting an answer and so is the buyer who has also contacted them. Nothing more I can do as of now. People were getting aggressive and unreasonable on Reddit. Calling me dumb etc for simply asking where I stand on this subject as clearly, according to this community post I am not alone with the fact that technicially it isn't my responsibility but also I could assost the buyer with the bad situation. I am a "Private" seller NOT a "Business" seller, which from what I have read means I don't have as strict responsibilities as a more professional one. 

[4_bathrooms]

As you're a private seller you were not legally responsible for ensuring your buyer received the item in person; your only obligation was to hand the item over to the agreed carrier (i.e. Evri). As far as eBay is concerned you need an online delivery scan showing a status of "delivered" or "delivery attempted" to automatically win an "item not received" (INR) case.

Has your buyer opened an INR case via eBay? If they have you need to upload the tracking number to the case - eBay does not do this automatically. Uploading the tracking number to the case will close it in your favour. If your buyer hasn't opened an INR case ask them to do so.

Your buyer can then file a dispute with their payment provider for not receiving their item and should do so if/when they lose the eBay Money Back Guarantee case. This will create a new case via eBay - according to eBay's payment dispute seller protections you are protected against being held liable as you have sufficient proof of delivery. Your buyer will still receive a refund but their refund will be funded by eBay rather than yourself. 

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@low.uk9 wrote:

I bought the label on the eBay app

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That was probably the start of the problem. When you purchase courier (i.e. non-Royal Mail) services via eBay you are purchasing them from a broker called Packlink rather than from eBay or the courier directly. When you purchase courier services from a broker the package will be handled with a lower priority than if you had booked direct from the courier. There is definitely a hierarchy when it comes to how carriers handle packages booked via brokers and one thing that is clear is Packlink are squarely at the bottom of that pile. I can happily recommend Interparcel as a far superior UK based broker (Packlink are based in Spain).
 

[low.uk9]

Yes they opened a case the evening they got home and noticed the parcel was not there. It was a "Item Not Recieved" case. Yes I also made sure the tracking number is on the case, however on the tracking on eBay it doesn't provide a as in-depth tracking as it does on the EVRI app, the EVRI app is where the proof of delivery picture is. 

As for people saying I shouldn't have used EVRI, yes I will take that on board for future sales (if i decide to continue that is). 

I only used EVRI as its the first one that comes up when selecting delivery and it even has bright green writing saying it is recommended by eBay. So as its the recommended service I selected it. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@low.uk9 wrote:

I only used EVRI as its the first one that comes up when selecting delivery and it even has bright green writing saying it is recommended by eBay. So as its the recommended service I selected it. 

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I have mentioned this before. If eBay are going to recommend a carrier and enable sellers to purchase that recommendation without even leaving the eBay website or app eBay shouldn't then hold a seller (or at least, not a private seller) liable for any failure of the provider they recommended.

Citizen's Advice states the following:

The second and last points seem pertinent. eBay would likely argue the service was purchased from Packlink and not themselves. However, eBay do not make that clear during the purchase process - they state things like "eBay delivery provided by Packlink" and/or "eBay recommended". I can't see how eBay can absolve themselves of any responsibility when they use language implying the service is provided or endorsed by themselves. 

[low.uk9]

Yes I see what you mean with all that and thank you for the research into this. It does seem I am "safe" from any surprise fees or claims against me. Everything I did was correct such as dispatching and delivering within the given time frame to the buyer. EVRI have not held up their side of the deal which is also the service recommended to me on the eBay app so hopefully it will be a simple case of the INR case being closed in my favour, however I will be persistant with making sure the buyer is not on their own throughout this and will do what I can to help. 

[douglaspuglas]

If you bought the label through eBay and not directly with evri then it's the dreaded packlink you should be contacting. 

[johnwash1]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:..
...
When you purchase courier (i.e. non-Royal Mail) services via eBay you are purchasing them from a broker called Packlink rather than from eBay or the courier directly. When you purchase courier services from a broker the package will be handled with a lower priority than if you had booked direct from the courier. There is definitely a hierarchy when it comes to how carriers handle packages booked via brokers and one thing that is clear is Packlink are squarely at the bottom of that pile. I can happily recommend Interparcel as a far superior UK based broker (Packlink are based in Spain).

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Hah, I wish.  Evri wouldn't know higher priority even if you beat them over the head with a bat.

I've recently sold something that was less than 2kg and slightly larger than RM's 45cm limit for small parcels.  So I used Evri.  I always book direct with RM and couriers, not through ebay.  Mainly to stop ebay screwing around with my displayed estimated delivery dates and giving buyers unreasonable expectations.

This parcel sat in my enclosed porch for 15 days before being collected by Evri.  Yes, FIFTEEN DAYS, despite my using much time going round in circles with Evri's infuriating bot, phoning Evri support who promise but never follow up, despite even contacting the CEO's office.

If you're suggesting that Packlink cause Evri to give worse service than that...