Being asked to upgrade to business account

[seraphims_odditorium]

Hello, 

this is my first post so please be kind. 

just looking for advice please.

Today I received an eBay email stating : 

“

Your selling activity indicates you’re operating as a business seller.

In order to comply with government consumer protection legislation, we ask that you upgrade your eBay account to a business account in the next 30 days. If you don’t, your account will be subject to selling restrictions, as outlined in our Business seller policy.” 

but I am not & have never been a business seller. I have sold our junk basically!  - unwanted kids toys, clothes etc etc  & more recently some of my late father’s items (he collected film memorabilia). 

at no point have I made or purchased any items to sell as a profit. So I’m not sure why this is happening or what to do ? 

[vintique*violet]

Sorry the link was meant for Lucy...will re-post. 

[vintique*violet]

https://www.gov.uk/capital-gains-tax/what-you-pay-it-on

The above gov link may help. @lucy_farmer

[the-online-oasis]

Absolutely correct.   

My husband and I have been running a proper shop on a high street being self-employed for approx. 30 years -  and not on eBay anyway .....

We needed to register for VAT  and tell HMRC that we are self employed and running a business.  Every 3 months we  submitted VAT return and involved an accountant to prepare the annual Loss & Profit account.  We also needed to open a business bank account for which fees were charged.  We are both retired for the last 20 years or so but I still know what it entails to run a business and its admin.  I certainly wouldn't need eBay UK for advise how to be a business seller or being self-employed ..... LOL

It sounds absolutely ludicrous from eBay to ask that the OP's  account should be a business account.  eBay's system is so flawed and one should take that into consideration when contacting their CS.  As some mentioned eBay's  "Bot" might have flagged something up and their CS agents don't know how to  solve it since they lack the knowledge of the  UK's tax system. 

I would suggest  to access HMRC and other sites which will help the OP to get clarification. 

[vintique*violet]

Hi @the-online-oasis The problem is eBay have their own policies to determine if a seller should be a business account and due to the new online selling laws now have to report to HMRC accounts who sell over 30 items or reach £1750 and with the HMRC £1000 Trading allowance people are getting confused ( or frightened) and think they have to register as a business and self-employed. 

If they want you to upgrade to a Business account you have to comply with whatever they ask for and restrict your account until you do... but how do you prove a negative? As far as I can see it is to be able to charge the business account fees and that is unfair to say the least if those accounts are not a legitimate business. 

If you are not a business you cannot trade as a business and if you are not trading ( ie only selling your own personal items) then you certainly are not a business...I think I must dream this in my sleep 😉  

I am very suspicious of all these new " legislations" coming in to what appears to be an exercise of gathering everyones personal data.

[the-online-oasis]

Hi there,

Here is some info from the HMRC regarding selling on a online platform:

https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-tell-hmrc-about-your-income-from-online-platforms#:...

[vintique*violet]

Hi @seraphims_odditorium

How did you get on regarding ebay and the Business account? 

Did you manage to keep your private account? 

[the-online-oasis]

...........I am very suspicious of all these new " legislations" coming in to what appears to be an exercise of gathering everyones personal data......

I fully agree.   I have been working on PCs since they were invented and knew from the start that this will revolutionize how we process data.  With the start of the WWW and now AI it has catapulted data processing even further.  The question is how to protect ourselves from being transparent to all kinds of people, organisations,  governments etc. We already know how far China is digitally controlling its citizens and governments/cooperations around the world would like to do the same. It scares me a lot.  People need to wake up to that and that the term privacy will soon be non-existent.  

[vintique*violet]

...........I am very suspicious of all these new " legislations" coming in to what appears to be an exercise of gathering everyones personal data......

I fully agree.   I have been working on PCs since they were invented and knew from the start that this will revolutionize how we process data.  With the start of the WWW and now AI it has catapulted data processing even further.  The question is how to protect ourselves from being transparent to all kinds of people, organisations,  governments etc. We already know how far China is digitally controlling its citizens and governments/cooperations around the world would like to do the same. It scares me a lot.  People need to wake up to that and that the term privacy will soon be non-existent.  

I totally understand... Some people have " eyes that see" and some have some semblance of the truth

of what is happening around them, others are blinded or distracted by so much " goings on"... 

Your background would have given you so much " insight"  what an interesting "career"...I do not have the answers, but " protect" as much as possible... and say No... a lot 😉 

@the-online-oasis 

[dan-myers]

its not an incorrect account, its ebay wanting everyone one a worse accoun so that they can fleece them for more selling fees

[dan-myers]

How are they being sneaky? there is no incentive to have a business account because it costs you more per sale. You are actually losing out so why would anyone want to become a business seller?

[papso22]

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@dan-myers wrote:

How are they being sneaky? there is no incentive to have a business account because it costs you more per sale. You are actually losing out so why would anyone want to become a business seller?

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So they don't break a number of laws?

[*vyolla*]

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@dan-myers wrote:

its not an incorrect account, its ebay wanting everyone one a worse accoun so that they can fleece them for more selling fees

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Not sure what you mean by incorrect account, and certainly no idea what the rest of the sentence there means. 

None of this is rocket science, sellers should be able to work out if they need a private or business account.

A private seller is one who is just selling off their own personal items such as clothes from their wardrobe, bits from their loft/garage etc.

A Business seller is someone who buys or makes items to sell on.  They need to be registered as a business to meet the requirements of UK law.

See eBay's guidance page here, where they state

An eBay seller must register as a business if, for example, they sell items they have bought to resell, they make items in order to sell them, or if they buy items for their business.

What is the policy?

Business sellers can't represent themselves as private individuals

Taken from:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/policies/selling-policies/selling-practices-policy/business-seller-polic...

[dan-myers]

Firstly, if you buy and sell to make a profit, you dont need to be registered as a business you just need to complete a yearly self assesment.

Its not rocket science to decide what account you need but thats not the issue. I need  a private account because if i upgrade to a business account then with the amount of sales i make it is not viable  for me to switch to a busness account because it  means a severe drop in profit (which only just allow me to get buy) because Ebay's  FVF are crippling on the items I sell. It would also mean that Ebay make more money than i do on my more expenisve items. There is no incentive to switch to business account for me but Ebay will force me to do so.

Ebay could quite easily alter the business accounts to make them more attractive or on par with a private selling account. Infact they could make itan even playing field and just have one type of account and make the selling fees the same all around and reducing them. Ebays model is one of the worst and has only gotten orse over time.

[ett1954]

"Firstly, if you buy and sell to make a profit, you dont need to be registered as a business you just need to complete a yearly self assesment." - Totally wrong.  If you are a business you have to be registered as a business on eBay to be compliant with the Consumer Rights Act - 2015.  It is nothing to do with tax / HMRC.

[4_bathrooms]

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@dan-myers wrote:

Firstly, if you buy and sell to make a profit, you dont need to be registered as a business you just need to complete a yearly self assesment.

---

If you complete a self-assessment for your eBay sales you are self-employed; i.e. you are a sole trader.

Traders (regardless of their business structure) are required to comply with consumer laws. These are mainly the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations, the Consumer Rights Act and the Consumer Contracts Regulations; all three of these legal instruments define what a trader is. It is not possible for a trader to comply with their legal obligations under any of these instruments if they conduct their trade via a private eBay selling account.

The most serious (but not the only) offence committed by a trader using a private account is found in the CPUTRs which state it is a specific criminal offence for a trader to masquerade as a private seller.  

[vintique*violet]

If you complete a self-assessment for your eBay sales you are self-employed; i.e. you are a sole trader.

Is this correct, as I am under the impression that you can register to complete a self assessment and not be classed/registered  as self employed ie. it could be to declare miscellaneous income and be employed , retired , or you are selling personal possessions but perhaps have sold an " asset"  and  CGT may apply or to inform of rental income, crypto etc... It does not necessarily mean that you will pay tax but it can be treated as taxable income and that does not make you self-employed.

[papso22]

Read the bit you quoted again.  It is very specific about being self employed and completing a self assessment return for ebay sales. It is therefore totally correct.

You are right though, there are other reasons for completing a self assessment that are not related to ebay sales.

[vintique*violet]

Hi @papso22  I have read it , numerous times... so where does it state that you have to be self employed and complete a self assessment for ebay sales...is it in the online sales reporting?  The reporting to HMRC ,again my understanding is that if you need to complete a self assessment HMRC will send a letter. 

Everyone whether on a  private or business account  is making ebay sales as defined in eBay policy... now if it stated ebay sales for profit that is different... but ebay sales, as in sold items, can be personal items and it  does not make you self employed or a sole trader.  

[papso22]

You are reading it round the wrong way.

Start from the premise that an individual is already completing a self assessment return that includes, or is limited to, their ebay sales.

That means that they are already acknowledging that they are a sole trader,  I.e operating a business.

In that case, in order to comply with Consumer law, they need to have an ebay business account. 

No-one has said that if you sell on eBay you have to complete a self assessment return, obviously genuine private sellers do not need to do that, and shouldn't. 

[vintique*violet]

I read it as it was stated... eBay Sales -  and all eBay sales are a mix from private accounts and business accounts. 

Your explanation has made it clearer and if they are already aware they are trading for a profit ie business activities,  then yes, self employed and self assessment and all the other " regulations" that entails. 

I stand by my comments - that you are not a sole trader, nor self employed etc if you are making ebay sales which are from your personal possessions.