Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

On Sunday I sold a 9ct gold double Albert watch chain.  Sent it off to the authenticator, who today has rejected it on the grounds that, "The hallmark is different than the listing or not valid in the UK".  I don't understand this because the listing photos show it is hallmarked 375 for 9ct.  I even took it into a local jeweller to double-check and because I couldn't see a hallmark on the T-bar and dog clips.  They confirmed it is 9ct and said older items often weren't hallmarked on each part. 

 

I'm just wondering if anyone here can enlighten me as to why it may have been rejected.  Ebay have told me to check for accuracy before listing again but as far as I'm aware my original listing was accurate!

 

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

I am going to play devil's advocate to a point!  If you have an authentication sercvice, whats the point if a physical test of the item is not carried out? albeit this Albert chain or a gold ring or a watch etc?

 

It would sound as though the authenticator of this item was not happy with the initial inspection eg consitency of listing/pictures and so forth. As I am sure I have read once they are happy after the initial inspection that a physical test is carried out, to do that with bullion metals you need the relevant equipment, so to that end I would say it is up to the authenticator to 'test' it.

 

However on an item of this age, I would have thought that there would/should be markings of some sort on the T-Bar etc.

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

plpmr
Experienced Mentor

As well as '375' did it have the sponsor mark and assay office mark?

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

No, not that I could see. Another reason I took it to a jeweller. Again they said it wasn't unusual for older items.

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Could be tricky, that could. If there is no sponsor mark or assay office mark then I don't see how it can be called hallmarked - it's just stamped '375' on each link - so technically the Authenticator was probably correct to reject it. Granted, a jeweller could run the necessary tests to establish whether or not it was actually 9ct gold but I doubt an eBay Authenticator would go that far.

 

I am surprised by the apparent lack of hallmark, though. I have a solid silver Albert which has the assay office mark on the T-bar; personally I'd be very wary of purchasing anything supposedly 9ct gold but with no assay office mark.

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

This was why I had it checked by a jeweller.  Then I listed it so it would be covered by the Authenticity Guarantee, supposedly so any buyer would be reassured that it is in fact 9ct gold.  It never occurred to me that the authenticator wouldn't test it, and if they don't then I can't see the point of the exercise.

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

The item must have a full hallmark to be described as gold and sold as gold and its not up to the authenticator to 'test' it.

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Okay, lesson learned.  Hopefully I'll get it back soon and will just be out the cost of the postage.

Looks like I'll be selling it as scrap gold which is a shame as it's a nice chain with a bit of character and some family history.

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

I am going to play devil's advocate to a point!  If you have an authentication sercvice, whats the point if a physical test of the item is not carried out? albeit this Albert chain or a gold ring or a watch etc?

 

It would sound as though the authenticator of this item was not happy with the initial inspection eg consitency of listing/pictures and so forth. As I am sure I have read once they are happy after the initial inspection that a physical test is carried out, to do that with bullion metals you need the relevant equipment, so to that end I would say it is up to the authenticator to 'test' it.

 

However on an item of this age, I would have thought that there would/should be markings of some sort on the T-Bar etc.

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Gold items don't HAVE to have full hallmarks to be sold as gold gold or other to precious metals, under hallmarking rule and UK law.

 

The hallmarking act of 1973, which determined all gold items over 0.8 grams (except coins), sold in the UK from 1975 (when the act came into force), meant all new pieces had to have hallmarks, that is sponsor's mark, metal and finesse mark, and Assay office mark.  

 

Which didn't immediately address the fact that, despite UK hallmarking being in practive since the 1400s, and the vast majority of silverware was hallmarked, jewellery, often as not, wasn't.

 

Two problems were created, foreign made items don't always have equivalent marks - most obviously US made items, and it created the ridiculous notion that valuable vintage and antique pieces should be sent to the assay office to have a modern mark added.

 

Subsequently, there were additional rules brought in re foreign made pieces, and - relevant here, and I quote from main exemptions from the hallmarking guidance note:

 

'Any pre-1950 item may now be described and sold as precious metal without a hallmark, if
the seller can prove that it is of minimum fineness and was manufactured before 1950'.

 

The bold is as in the guidance notes.

 

And there is the rub - how does one prove this?   Finesse is relatively easy, but how to prove a date when you can't actually prove the date?   I was for some years a professional intinerant metal dealer, so with some expertise, and this item was definitely made before 1950, and I'd be fairly certain it is an antique piece,  and could support that assertion with facts.   But not sure how I would prove it - unless my experience is taken as proof, and that ain't gonna happen!

   

Written evidence - a receipt or confirmation that the item was included in a deceased estate assessment for CGT assessment before 1950,  or photographic evidence, would help, but even then, you might be on a shuggly peg.   

 

And I wouldn't have the confidence in eBay validation experts  that a receipt would do any good at all, judging from the comment about the hallmark not being valid.

 

The sad thing is that this is a stunning piece, always lovely to have every link with the finesse mark, no scrappie worth his salt would refuse to buy this for good money!  If, however, the item can't be sold due to UK law, then scrapping is the altenative.  Whilst I've scapped a good few alberts in my time, imagine how many vintage an antique pieces must go into the pot?

 

On the bright side the scrap price is around £800!

 

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

I didn't mean to hit the 'accepted solution' button!

 

But thank you, I'm glad it isn't just me that expected the authenticator to check that what I said was 9ct gold was in fact 9ct gold.  The chain is just as in the photos and I deliberately didn't make any guesses in the listing, only put the information I knew to be accurate. 

 

With there not being a full hallmark I've no idea how old the chain is but, as I've said before, the jeweller told me it wasn't unusual for it not to be fully hallmarked. 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Don't worry about the accept solution thing.....

 

You know what I would do, take it to your local auction house, see what they say, gold prices are at their highest ever at the moment. I know our local one has the "acid" tests and also the electronic tester to test the T- bar and clasps, As @magpiecorner1 says its a lovely piece to be just sold for scrap, You would like to think its worth more than the £800 ish as scrap on current prices. Any decent auction house worth their salt should snap your arm off for that, but also if they have a jewellry specialist they should be able to give you further information. IT could be (and I am not saying it is) that the T-bar was added at a later date etc.

 

@snivelserpent 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Thank you for the information, it's an interesting read.

 

I hadn't looked at the scrap price until this afternoon when I got the rejection notification from ebay.  When I did then I thought, why on earth did I even bother with the hassle of trying to sell it on ebay!  I know it 'sold' for more, but my starting price was less than the scrap value which I hadn't realised.  Turns out there's a gold buying company just up the road from me which gets good reviews and appears to give good prices so I'll probably give them a try once I've got it back in my possession.

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Thank you, but the commission the auction houses take is eyewatering.  I don't think it would sell at auction for enough for me to end up with anywhere near the scrap value.  

 

For example, if I sent it to the local one in Birmingham and it sold for the same as it did on ebay, £930, according to their online fee calculator I would only receive £733.

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Hi i also live in your city.

 

Take a trip over to the Jewellery Quarter Bham and see if the jewellers will make an offer for it and/or give you a decent scrap price.

 

The JQ offers a scrap price per gram way higher than locally even taking into account the £8 congestion zone fee one has to pay.     Or jump on the tram as it stops right in the centre of the JQ.

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If they are a proper authenticator on behalf of Ebay i would have thought they would have one of the guns that they just put on the item and it immediately registers what carat the item is and whether its fake or not.   Some proper hallmarks are also faked on "real gold".

 

Some really old genuine gold items are not even hallmarked 😞  Obv they cannot be sold on Ebay.

 

 

 

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Proving it is gold still won't get passed the law that it should be hallmarked, unfortunately.

 

I remember a case in Scotland where the Trading Standards took a seller to court and won the case against a man selling a fourteen carat chain.  It was 14K genuine gold, but he was prosecuted because it didn't have full UK hallmarks and he was selling it in the UK.

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

This problem is going to get worse.  

 

There is a new item specifics - is the item hallmarked?

 

Of course, in the US a hallmark would be simply 14k or 18k, so a 9ct or 925 mark might be ok.  But its there for a reason!

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

I haven't read all the comments BUT, you could get it hallmarked yourself.

Granted it will be this years hallmark, but a hallmark is a hallmark.

 

I think Cookson Precious metals will do hallmarking for the public, although looking quickly, I couldn't see anything. 

If that's a no try contacting one of the UK assay offices and see if they will do it direct or may be able to offer a solution.

https://www.assayoffice.co.uk/our-services/hallmarking-getting-started

 

Then you can submit to the Authenticity thingy and you could then provide the receipt and documentation as further proof it has been to the assay office.

 

Hope that helps

 

 

 

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Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

plpmr
Experienced Mentor

Re: Authenticity Guarantee - Hallmark Rejected

Hi was the 14k item sold on Ebay?

 

I need to thoroughly research the Law relating to hallmarks in relation to buying from a shop say in the high street  or online.

 

Last Christmas i was treated to some really nice brand new hoop gold earrings from a jewellers in the JQ Birmingham.....cost nearly £300.     They only have a  14k hallmark.  No full UK hallmarks. No import assay either.

 

 

 

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