The item was stolen after delivery, and now the buyer is threatening to take me to civil court

[telkavintage]

This is my first time posting here in 11 years of selling on eBay, as I've never encountered a situation like this before. I sold a £100 item and shipped it via Royal Mail 48-hour tracked service. It was delivered with photographic proof showing it outside the buyer's apartment.

The buyer initially opened a claim saying the item wasn’t received and was stolen. I won the case. They then escalated by filing a payment dispute with their credit card company, which I also successfully won. However, the buyer is now threatening to take me to civil court.

I’ve opened a case with Royal Mail, but they haven’t provided a refund since the item was classified as stolen, not lost.

What should I do in this situation?

[dch2112011]

What a tangle, you have one seriously peed off customer.

Where exactly was the parcel left ? RM have strict rules on where they can leave a delivery in a safe place ? outside an apartment  may not be in their rules ? If not then push for compensation - the reason for the rules is to avoid goods being stolen or damaged.

You can call the buyer's bluff by taking every avenue to investigate the claim and of you have no joy explain the action taken and give an address and name for documents to be served, and ride it out in the small claims court  if the customer follows through with the threat or repay the customer and take the hit.

[plpmr]

Since the buyer claims "stolen" have they reported this to the police and if so what was the outcome?

[telkavintage]

They have not reported it to the police

[telkavintage]

I’ve been responding to all their messages politely and professionally, as I understand their frustration. The tracking shows the item delivered on the floor outside their apartment/flat door

[messier44000]

Just my opinion.

If an item is sent RM tracked, the buyer  needs to take some responsibility, and has every opportunity to check to 

see it is out for delivery and alert neighbours to watch out for the postie if they know they will not be in.

Could also put a note on the door to leave a card and drop off at the 

nearest P/O . Believe you can also add notes / request different delivery 

dates on-line. 

If by any chance they take you to small claims, as part of your case, ask if they attempted 

any of the above. 

[telkavintage]

Thank you for the response. I hadn't considered that, but I'll definitely add it if they do

[dch2112011]

Royal Mail are in breach of their terms and conditions regarding where they can leave a parcel - not in view / doorstep 

As the seller you are responsible for delivery if you arranged / purchased the postage

This was taken from the internet 

If a parcel is left in your porch, or other 'safe place' without your specific instruction and it is subsequently stolen, the retailer has breached their contract with you.

The items should be replaced.

However, customers should must sure they don't unwittingly agree to safe place delivery when accepting a retailer's terms and conditions

If for example RM was chosen by the customer then by default it could be argued the customer accepted RM's terms and conditions or if you state in your terms and conditions that a safe place could be used as a default condition of delivery - the same could apply to ebay T & C

[telkavintage]

Thank you for the response. Yes, Royal Mail 48 tracked is the shipping option available when purchasing from my store. I've reached out to Royal Mail once again to get an update on their stance regarding this issue. Unfortunately, no police claim has been filed, which makes it difficult to file a claim, as it would just be the buyers word stating that the item was stolen 

[moldosgifts]

The buyer is a pro scammer, without a police report they will loose, encourage them to report the stolen goods to the police also do a report yourself to action fraud, i doubt very much they will take you to the small claims court, but in the very slight chance they do,  the lack of reporting the alleged crime to the police should be your opening statement.

As a side note tracked 48 is a poor choice of delivery service by yourself for a £100 item something akin to a special deliver service would have been better.

[myriad*seller]

The outcome would rely on whether the small claims court deemed you to be a private seller or a business seller

As private sellers just have to deliver the item to the courier for the contract to be fulfilled

Whereas if the court decided you were actually trading, then you would be required to refund the buyer in full as the buyer did not receive the item into their hand 

You are selling dozens of secondhand jackets, are these REALLY all your own unwanted personal items or did you acquire them to sell? 

[vintique*violet]

Telkavintage is registered as a business seller. 

[vintique*violet]

Royal Mail Tracked 48 covers up to £150  value. 

[telkavintage]

I am a registered business owner, and here's what I'd like to know. Should I simply send him the money to resolve the matter, or should I let him pursue a small claims case, considering no police report has been filed and it's only based on his word>

[moldosgifts]

I would still not use that service for item of that value. My opinion agree or not.

How big was the missing item letter, large letter, parcel , crate?

Why do they not seem to want to report to the police?

[myriad*seller]

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@telkavintage wrote:

I am a registered business owner, and here's what I'd like to know. Should I simply send him the money to resolve the matter, or should I let him pursue a small claims case, considering no police report has been filed and it's only based on his word>

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In that case, I would tell them that if they provide a crime reference number that you will refund

Otherwise, tell them to take you to court, and keep a record of that communication. 

Then use the crime refence number to claim from Royal Mail for your loss. 

[telkavintage]

Thank you for your advice. I’ll go ahead and request that from them now

[myriad*seller]

I don't know what the item was, but make sure you check that RM compensation actually covers the item 

As there is no point wasting your time trying to get compensation for something on the list of excluded items

They will happily sell you "compensation" even if they know at the point of sale it does not cover the item

[dch2112011]

Personally I always have doubt when ebay buyers claim stolen, I would continue to persue RM who it seems are in breach of their own terms and conditions and if reimbursed then reimburse the buyer - even if the claim seems  untrue.  

Keep the customer informed  and if necessary copy them with any RM response - be seen to be doing the right thing, you can even say that you will make a decision once the Royal Mail investigation is complete and if RM find that they have left the package in an innapropriate safe place without notifying the customer then you will accept the findings and reimburse the customer - explain that you have appealed their current decision that it was correctly delivered and notified and that the theft was the customer's responsibility - advise them to report to police and ask any neighbours if they took it in for them and have forgotten to notify them.

If Royal Mail find that the item was correctly delivered then  you must accept the expert information provided by Royal MAIL. You can then make a personal decision on a refund or not as the case maybe.

At this point the customer should be informed to seek professional legal advice and any legal action may involve Royal Mail as expert witnesses or as an involved party to the proposed legal action

With regards to small claims  court - it depends on your viewpoint - you can wait and see if a summons is issued at which time you can contest the claim - ask for mediation or even make a payment into court  and if  equal to or above any award you cannot be charged costs - seek advice 

You also have to ask yourself do you want the hastle for the cost of the item and postage / fees - not the sale price 

[plpmr]

Make sure that the crime reference number is from the police and not from action fraud.