Buyer claiming item is defective - falsley

[snolly67]

I just sold an item which was collection only - buyer arrived, tested item was more than happy and completed sale - 2 days later has obviously changed his mind and requested a return which I refused - now alleges there were faults and claims I was aware of them (which it was in perfect working order on collection which he tested) and has gone to eBay - I've already withdrawn the funds - how do I stand?

[*guinevere*]

I'm sorry but if your buyer has opened a case for Item not as Described they are guaranteed a refund whether you agree to it or not, and the stinger is you have to pay for a tracked method of return.

If your buyer has arranged their own courier, or they sent a third party to collect on their behalf they will have invalidated the money back guarantee.

Assuming they collected themselves the process is that you pay for and  send the reurn label, and refund on return.  If there is no money in your funding source the refund will be taken from your bank account.

This is going to be an ongoing problem for sellers of larger items that have to be collected in person now that ebay have done away with cash payments.

[john1297576]

If he opens a not as described case (is that what you mean by gone to ebay) then you arrange+for return at your expense and refund,

Then you can appeal, but as ebay never see the item, unlikely to get anywhere.

This  new system which means buyers can inspect, take  away and still open a case, from seller's angle is not an improvement.

[snolly67]

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I thought by collecting in person they would ensure the item was what they wanted - seems ridiculous that they can just change their mind and make false claims! Don’t know how they can return it as it can’t be posted and they live about 150 miles away!

[snolly67]

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Item can’t be posted and it has now been used - I didn’t use it before sale as it wasn’t suitable for me - it’s over £500 and I havnt used eBay for a long time, I obviously withdrew the funds when the item was collected as the buyer was more than happy with their purchase! Don’t know how they can get it back as they live about 150 miles away

[*guinevere*]

I'm so sorry I don't know how to reply to you. 

You are responsible for getting the item back and it has to be tracked so that a tracking number can be loaded into the case so ebay can see it has been returned.

If you don't arrange for the return within 3 working days your buyer can escalate to ebay - or ask ebay to step in - and ebay could refund them without return, and your buyer could end up with both a refund and the item. 

[snolly67]

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How can eBay refund them when I have withdrawn the funds because my balance is zero in my eBay account? So if the buyer lives 500miles away I’m still expected to arrange its return?

[tressygirl]

If there is no money in the available section of your Payment Summary eBay will use your back up source,  which is usually your bank account or whichever method you have registered,  which we all have to, under eBay's Managed Payments, to cover such instances.

I know you were just giving an example,  but I doubt a buyer living 500 miles away from an item to be collected would make that journey in the first place , to collect said item.

@snolly67 

[jckl1957]

It is obvious that you feel strongly about this, but the advice you have been given is accurate and clear.

If you don't arrange to get the item back, the buyer will be able to ask Ebay to step in.  You only have 3 working days to respond and arrange for the item to be returned.

If you don't, and your buyer goes back to Ebay and asks them to intervene, Ebay will tell them they do not need to return the item and they will refund them from your bank account.  Ebay have access to your linked bank account via direct debit.

When you sell on Ebay, you agree to the terms of the Money Back Guarantee as it relates to buyers.  It is important that sellers know what those terms are.

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/managing-returns-refunds/manage-returns-missing-items-refunds-se...

If you refuse to collect the item and refuse to refund voluntarily, you will be able to appeal the case if you lose it.  However, by this time, you would not have the item or the money and it is very difficult to prove the buyer has been dishonest.

[snolly67]

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According to google maps it’s roughly 264 miles to where I think he lives as he was collecting when he was at a different location which was slightly closer but not a lot - I would not physically be able to fit the item in my car anyway

[tressygirl]

As has been explained and it's a horrid situation for you I do agree, but rules are and they cannot be changed, a seller has to provide now the cost of the return of the item or a buyer can escalate the case after 3 days and they'll then get to keep the item and eBay will force the refund.

Now although this goes against the grain, but sometimes people do this in the hope of receiving a partial refund.

The distance,  the cost involved in the return,  and the very real aspect of losing both the item and the full money to be repaid,  it may be worth asking the buyer if they would accept a partial refund and keep the item.

If you both agree to this,  they would need to close that case,  and you can send them the agreed partial refund.

I agree not ideal, but may in the long run be the best result.

@snolly67 

[snolly67]

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Thank you

[tressygirl]

Worth a shot and I know it will be done through ' gritted teeth'.

Do keep us posted on the outcome.

Good Luck!

@snolly67 

[*guinevere*]

The advice given by @tressygirl in post 11 is spot on. 

If you can persuade your buyer to accept a partial refund this will be the best outcome for you. As said, it will go dead against the grain because you know they are trying it on, but it would save you the nightmare of getting your golf buggy back, and the buyer will have no more holds over you.

[*guinevere*]

OP, there is another way that I've been thinking about this morning, and quite honestly I can't think of any flaws that jump out at me.

Go and collect your buggy.

Take your laptop or phone with you, whichever has your ebay details on.

Put the buggy in your car, or if you've borrowed a vehicle, put it in that. 

Open your account on the doorstep and send a refund there and then to your buyer so they have their refund and you have the buggy. 

[snolly67]

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Unfortunately the golf skate won’t physically fit in my car and I’m going on holiday so can’t take time off work anyway to go and get it but thanks for trying to help

[*guinevere*]

Good luck anyway and please come back and let us know how you get on.

[snolly67]

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Unfortunately you were all correct and the buyer asked for £100 partial refund which I had no option but to pay as there was no alternative - 3hrs on the phone to eBay and constantly being given wrong information, I eventually spoke to a manager Joanne who was lovely, which can’t be said about the other 3 people I spoke to who had no customer service skills whatsoever and the “specialist “ I spoke to was useless - eBay have now listened to the calls and are addressing those problems - not that it’s helped me but it certainly identified major problems they have with staff giving out the wrong information and potentially putting the seller in a very disadvantaged position and leaving them in an even worse position. The buyer even quibbled over £3.20 deducted from the £100 in PayPal fees and I firmly believe he has done this before but has eventually closed the case and I am in the process of closing my eBay Account as I will never be using the platform again. Whilst I agree with some of their policy, I think the collection in person protection needs to be exempt as it’s ludricous that they can take an item to their home after collection/ inspection/trial and decide up to 30 days later they don’t want the item and claim it’s not as listed with no proof whatsoever and eBay don’t question this in any way and the seller is then responsible for collection of the item at their cost. I do not see that eBay offers any protection to the seller at all and allows corrupt people who know this system to operate - it’s been a very very strsssful experience and I should never have agreed to complete the transaction on eBay as the buyer saw it on market place - a very cunning and deceptive person who I wouldn’t wish anyone else to have the experience of.

[*guinevere*]

Thank you for coming back to let us know. 

Shame you lost out on £100 but at least your mind is now at rest knowing the buyer can't come back to you for more money.

I agree totally with what you say, ebay isn't a safe place for selling expensive items, not when they insist on electronic payment and won't allow cash or bank transfer. 

It's a hard lesson to learn.

[double_o_heaven]

Unfortunately similarly disposed "buyers" will be taking advantage of this debacle for a short period of time, before sellers cotton on and stop selling anything expensive which needs collecting.

I am sorry you have lost out on this, you won't be the first or last, sadly.

Umm, just a quick point - you said you refunded £100 through paypal.  Why was this - did you not refund through eBay?  Please tell me you did, and this just happened to be the buyer's funding source?  I just don't think they would have had to pay fees if so.

Any payment made direct to the buyer (outside of eBay) is basically a gift and will not prevent them from still claiming the whole amount back through eBay.  Although if they have now closed the case, probably not, thankfully. 

[snolly67]

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Unfortunately that was the only way the gerund could be made and eBay advised me to do this and they advised him the same by email which he sent me so I had no option - it did go against the grain and eBay initially said they could do something on their system to allow me to pay through their system but then decided it couldn’t be done because of the open case - this is partly why they are listening to the calls as I was misinformed at every step - they have confirmed there is no way he can reopen the case for any reason - I felt I had no support or protection throughout the process

regards

Donna

[*guinevere*]

Really bad advice by ebay, of course the refund could be made throufgh the case, this is the proper way to do it. I despair, I really do.

But as you say the case has now been closed and it cannot be reopened so I don't think you need to worry any more about it. 

Enjoy your holiday and don't even think about ebay!