13-11-2013 9:50 AM
Hi all.
As we all know Monday was rememberance day and at work we all honoured the 2 mins silence.
However one person at work refused as they are a Jehovah Witness?
I've never come across this before and thought how absurd it was. I can't understand what on earth religion has to do with standing and remebering those who fought for us. Everyone not matter what religion or not have someone in their family tree who was directly affected by war
16-11-2013 11:53 AM
only the pure of heart will ever see a unicorn
have you ever seen one Grumpy??
16-11-2013 11:56 AM
16-11-2013 11:59 AM
thennnnnnnnnnn what was your original point?
16-11-2013 12:56 PM
I care for war veterans, That"s my JOB. 12 hour night shifts. So.. You see, I do not stand there quietly once a year, for two minutes, & then go about my "business" til the next 11th November. I feel your reply is very disrespectful. & you have the choice to visit the places where respectful people honour the two minute silence! Why not instead, just stay away for two minutes? No one is forcing you out there. I have said my "peace", I do not feel the need to quote the Wiccan Rede though.
16-11-2013 1:58 PM
God has told us he takes no pleasure in it at all, again he gives mankind a way out.
Then why create mankind the way he is supposed to have done, what was the point, why for example put an attractive apple tree in the middle of the garden then say the fruit must not be picked, what was it some sort of test in the way a person might leave money lying around the house to test the honesty of the servants?
Many would call that entrapment.
What he is, is a God of justice, does the law of the land allow evil doers and criminals go unpunished? Does the law of the land try in many cases to rehabilitate them to allow them back into society?
Society does not give people the choice to be a criminal, for example motorists are not told they can drive as fast as they like but they will be punished if they break the speed limit, they know in no uncertain way that they must stay within the limits the law sets.
True choice is the ability to choose one path or another and have that choice respected and tolerated by others, unfortunately tolerance is not a feature of many religious sects, they do not have choice in their vocabulary.
Why would you think I am going to be a slave and pet?
You want to live for eternity under a regime that will subject you to surveillance for 24 hours a day, your very thoughts will be monitored and controlled and you will have no freedom of action, what is that but slavery or the life of a pet?
Soon, obedient mankind will live under such blessed conditions. They “will be set free from enslavement to corruption and have the glorious freedom of the children of God.”
Note the oxymoron.
One could make a viable comparison between your idea of paradise and modern day North Korea, but at least a person can escape from North Korea by dying, no such convenience will be available to those who have the misfortune to end up in paradise.
17-11-2013 11:26 PM
OK, well as most of you know, I don't really post on FHG nowadays, that's not to say that I dislike it or any of the people on it, but for various reasons that need not be gone into, as they are history, things didn't go too well.
Anyway putting all of that aside, I'd like to say that I agree with a lot of what has been posted on this thread, and in particular to Streety and Merlin.
Now I'm going to need to keep myself rational, and sensible whilest writing this post, which for a few reasons, may be tricky for me, so please bare with me.
Golden*Nugget I don't want this to sound as a personal attack on you, as I respect anyone's right to any belief that they so wish, I also respect everyone's right to their own opinion.
Unfortunately, I have a deep hatred the Johovah Witness relegion and all that it stands for, my reason?..........well, through a so called Johovah Witness, yes the one's that stand on their pedastall claiming to be so good, so pure, so full of love and all of the rest of the rubbish that they sprout, my Mother's marriage was wrenched apart, resulting in my Mum suffering a nervous breakdown, as she was left with 2 young children and me on the way. The breakdown obviously left her unable to look after us children, she could barely look after herself, and as a result of that, 3 young, innocent children were put into care where we spent the rest of our childhood!!!
What has this got to do with Johovah Witnesses? Because the "thing" that caused all of this is/was a Johavah Witness.........a woman who decided that she wanted my Dad, a sargeant in the army, who she knew full well, was a married man with children!!
She even bought my Dad out of the army, converted him or, should that be, brain washed him, into becoming a Witness himself.
When we were taken into care, our social worker contacted my Dad and this woman, asking if they could help in anyway.............guess what?..........they didn't want to know! they washed their hands of it all and were quite happy to Marry and go on to have a further 5 children!!
Obviously, I'm not going to go through all of what happened, as it's a very long story, but I'll say this much, through that one womans selfish actions, 3 innocent children were left on the scrap heap, emotionally damaged and were left with all of the hurt, the guilt, the anger and the everything else.......something that the adults involved should have been dealing with, but then, they were fine weren't they??
Whilst they went to their "Church" and worshipped Johovah, whoever the heck he is!!! 3 children were left trying to pick the peices up and wondering why they had been left on the scrap heap and why they were unlovable and unworthy??!!!
Thankfully, it was Dr Barnardos who rescued us and it was them who provided us with a home, food, security and love in the best way that they could. I have nothing but love and respect for Dr Barnardos and for my Housemother and Father, who did their very best, in the most difficult of situations.
I'm sorry but I find the mere words "Johovah Witness" offensive.
You know, that woman who took my Dad, even wrote a letter to my Mum, telling her to "take your **bleep** down to the lake and drown them".........yes that was from the mouth of a Johovah Witness..........unbelievable you think........well you'd better start believing as that is exactly the words she wrote on that piece of paper!!!
Yet, they act like they're so wonderful, I don't suppose they've ever even told any of their Witness friends or anyone connected to their Church anything about this, or the history and the repercussions of their behaviour and actions.
So please don't tell me that by following Johavah, that I'll land in your "paradise".......I have no wish to be anywhere near any of you!!
Streety and Merlin, you hit the hammer on the nail.
I was bought up Christian as Dr Barnardos was then a Christian Charity, I went to Church every Sunday, every Easter, Every Christmas and so on, had to go to Sunday School too.
I lost my faith many years ago and I'm now not religious at all.
To be free is to be happy with yourself and who you are, I do not need to be dictated too and I do not need to be told to follow rules.
I trust my heart and I go with my heart, if you learn to love yourself, you will be able to love others and you will be able to recieve love from others, I'd rather love and recieve from "real, living" people than I would something that's no more than a big story to me.
Sadly, I feel religion is often used as some sort of prop for people to lean on, many different reasons for that, but mostly, it makes them feel better about themselves. Let go of it all, and you'll become free to be your own person with no restraints.
Streety, getting back to your original question hun, not one living human in this Country should ever refuse to take part in the 2 minutes silence, without those that lost their lives, and all of the families and friends that were left heartbroken, we wouldn't be the Country that we are and we wouldn't be free to live how we want to and believe in what we want too.
Once again, I find it wholly offensive, of a religion to take that stance, how dare they!!!
Golden*Nugget you would not have even been shopping in that supermarket if it wasn't for those who fought and laid down their lives for you, how disrespectful can you be??!!!
I shouldn't think there is one member on this board who likes or condones war, we all hate it, each and everyone of us. But that is neither here nor there, the fact is, these wars happened, and they happened so that we are able to live our lives in freedom, shame on you if you can't even find it in your heart to say thankyou and respect and remember those who sacrificed thier lives for the sake of you!!
WE WILL REMEMBER THEM!!
17-11-2013 11:42 PM
Merlin, that is just soooo sad.
I wish I could say that I'm surprised/shocked, but I'm not.
This is the whole thing about "religion" they are told and lead to believe that their "religion" should come above everything and that includes family.
Her parents are going to now live regretting that action for the rest of their lives now, I'm sure that they are really hurting, how can anyone put anything above the love of their own children?
Beautiful Wedding and they look so happy and so together, as I say to everyone, what matters?.........if there is love surely that's all that matters, isn't it?
18-11-2013 9:12 AM
I hope one day you find peace Mandymoosie
on
18-11-2013
10:35 AM
- last edited on
18-11-2013
10:39 AM
by
kh-daniel
I think perhaps GN should have shopped at a slightly different time but I don't suppose she/he went there specifically at 11.00 to make a stand against the 2 minute silence. If they did then that's ill judged but part of the reason the soldiers go to war is to give everyone the right to free speech. We all have different opinions on things.
Perhaps we should remember;
"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?
I understand your personal feelings about your Father Moosie, but you can't condemn a whole religious group. I do think that GN has made some dignified & eloquent responses under what has become a personal attack.
18-11-2013 10:52 AM
I agree with your last sentence grumpy. That's exactly what I thought when I read mandy's post. Although I don't agree with their beliefs, you can't blame the whole group on one person's actions.
18-11-2013 10:57 AM
Thank you golden*nuggets
As I said in my original post, my comments were not meant as a direct attack on you hun. If they did come across like that, I apologise.
18-11-2013 11:13 AM
Well I think I did state in my original post that none of what I said was meant as a personal attack.
As I did also explain, for pretty obvious reasons, I find it very hard to talk about this sometimes, and also, very hard to try and keep my rational head on, so, yes, sometimes I may appear to go off course and a bit over the top, I accept that wholly.
You may be right that I shouldn't condemn a whole group, but I will explain that I don't only condemn the Johavah Witnesses, there are others too, and I will say it again, I do wholly condemn what they stand for, as you so rightly say, everyone has a right to their opinion, and that is mine.
I wish no harm whatsoever to golden*nuggets, indeed, I don't even know her, but, just as she was saying about her beliefs, I was saying about mine and my reasons for it.
Sometimes you need to look a little further, things aren't ever black or white and I have to say that I do sometimes find your posts and responses to other people, pretty sharp and sometimes quite rude.
I see that your post to me has been edited and modified by an admin, so I can only guess that some of your reply would have been offensive to me.
I think perhaps WE ALL need to look more closely at what we say and the way we say it.
18-11-2013 11:39 AM
I did reply, but it seems free speech applies to everyone except me
18-11-2013 11:44 AM
Well I don't know what's going on there then Grumpy??
I would like to just say at this point, that I'm not button pushing or reporting you, there's no need, and I like to hear everyone's opinion whether I agree with it or not
18-11-2013 12:01 PM
Of course I'm assuming you meant me as CG said exactly the same.
18-11-2013 1:26 PM
18-11-2013 5:50 PM
Gina I find it pretty sad when every time I come on here, I'm under attack off of a few.
Also, having said that, I've seen your posts recently on other boards where you are clearly seen to be behaving in an insulting way to some of the OP's.........as they say, people in glass houses and all of that!!!
18-11-2013 6:01 PM
I actually find you pretty insulting with how you choose to word your posts. You know nothing about me or what has happened, so I'd like it if you kept your opinions to yourself.
Step down from your high horse, who do you think you are??
It's such a shame that FHG has some really nasty, hateful people on here, most are lovely but there are a few who are nothing less that nasty little bullies to me.
What you have said has hurt me a lot Gina, do you feel proud now???
18-11-2013 6:12 PM
Some JWs may be nice people but it doesn't stop the organisation from being a cult which seeks to control it's members and condemn those who are outside it, on the basis of myths and fairy tales.
It would also be good if they stopped protecting child abusers within their ranks.
18-11-2013 6:43 PM