Survivable Sales Drought Or Terminal Decline?

[blueskystore777]

Even ebay admit these are 'exceptional times for sellers'. It's clear that sales for the majority are down by large and unprecedented percentages, whether measures M.O.M or Y.O.Y, the trajectory is vastly down.

I'd be interested in opinions, so, a simple question:

A. Have you convinced yourself that ,whatever the cause, this is an exceptional 'Sales Drought' and if it can be survived, ebay will again return the sales ranges it held for years and maybe ever better? Or,

B. Do you believe this is a 'planned or unplanned', Terminal Decline that will, for whatever basket of reasons, mean the end of ebay as a viable sales option?

[osalk49]

It doesn't look promising tbh.

[ludlow-trader]

it seems fairly obvious to me that what is driving people away from the site is the rising cost of items . During a global economic slowdown with a downward trend of spending online the last thing ebay should have done is bring in promoted listings . They must understand that sellers have been forced into raising prices to cover these extra percentages or did they expect sellers to just swallow them and hold all of the stock do all of the processing and packing and cover costs of returns etc for nothing? Ebay is supposed to be a partnership with their customers(the sellers) They have lost sight of that IMO and unless they address these concerns millions of sellers will have no choice but to leave as running a business on here is becoming very difficult!

[1956glyn]

Also generally i do not think postage costs help sellers 😞    Before i list anything i have to decide if its even worth listing due to postage costs.

Using the likes of Evri is not an option for us. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I'm not sure that postage costs hinder sellers either.

If your buying online, you have to use some form of postage, which does even the field somewhat.

After all, everyone has to get it to the actual customer.

Just because the likes of Evri has a headline price that is cheap, when comparing to other companies, it does not mean, that you cannot get a comparable (or even better) price for other couriers.

If you haven't, then I would suggest that you start talking to them, especially if you have a reasonable volume.

As to promoted listings etc, I really don't think that overall, they make an awful lot of difference to most sellers.

After all, virtually every single marketplace has this kind of thing already, so it makes less sense from Ebay's point of view, not to give that choice to it's sellers.

[exponential_developments]

You spend that much time on here your business must be very quiet.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

And the problem is? 

There is something wrong with that?  And as to how busy or quiet I am, is none of your business.

But you know what, I'm not the one complaining!

[autorescue]

I go with A. , it is mainly the current economical climate

[cke786]

It's hard to say, when the year started, we were doing great, sales were up on average more than 30% than the previous year..... then all of a sudden, it stopped!! Once in about the end of April start of May, sales were like 2 sales a day, if we were lucky! Weekends went down from 25-30 sales, to maybe 6-10, on a couple occasions, absoluetely no sales at all.

It's very strange, we were doing so well at the start, then pretty much overnight, sales were next to nothing, no rhyme or reason! Unless something was done to the site by eBay's 'expert programmers' to drive down traffic, then I can't understand why the drop-off was so sudden, as we didn't change anything ourselves, items that were selling really well, suddenly were not!

This drop has affected me personally, as I am now working less, now on Wednesday, I leave at 1:30pm instead of 5:30pm, so my wages have now gone down, which were not amazing to begin with, but now having to buy less food (now down to one meal per day), use less electricity, buy & use less petrol, etc.

Something needs to happen!

[theelench]

I'm only a very low volume private seller but I found exactly the same thing.

On the other site I sell on I had the best start to any year I've sold there with 25 sales between January and April.  Since April, 1 sale in July otherwise totally dead.

I put this down partly to the way I charge postage there, rounding it down to the lower 50p.  So up until April, RM 2nd class, Small Parcel was £3.49 rounded down to £3.  After the RM increase to £3.69 I increased my P&P to £3.50.

On ebay my sales have virtually ceased anyway, three in total since 1st January, one in March, April and May.  Nothing since.

I always charge stamp price for P&P on ebay and have to add on more to cover their skimming of postage costs and then some more to cover the generally higher fees ebay charges.  So the same item on ebay will cost more than on ebid.  

It seems quite plain to me that the cost of living crisis isn't over for enough people to make a difference to sales with, it seems, most people still economising where they can and resisting price rises if they can.

My continuing dismal level of sales on ebay have not only been brought about by my items costing more here but by ebay's policy of effectively reducing visibility for any item that isn't sponsored.

A great idea from ebay when items are already struggling to sell because of high fees, to add yet another 9 - 11% to the price would, I'm sure, reduce my sales to zero quicker than they're heading in that direction already.

[spence0175]

In the category I mostly sell on dollshouse miniatures and dolls , you would be staggered to see the sheer amount of dollshouse and doll selling groups on Facebook.

It is impossible to compete with them.

i am also seeing a reduced amount of private sellers in these categories. I think due to the new HMRC limits. If they are not selling then they are not buying

[blueskystore777]

Thanks for all who took the time to reply to my question. Good to get a broader perspective.

Best of fortune to all.

[555njp]

Bit late but I think B.

1/ HMRC gathering online sales data will likely wipe off a lot of private sellers early next year. This could do a lot more damage to the site than people realise. Some sellers (businesses masquerading as private) will go for not paying their dues, but many legitimate private sellers will become fearful of selling off their own stuff or be unwilling to provide eBay with a NI number and so will be forced to stop selling too.
Reduced choice, particularly of used stuff that defines eBay from say Amazon can only lead to less buyers and a further downward spiral. 

2/ From December, GPSR Compliance will impact a lot of small business's ability to sell to EU and NI without considerable effort/cost. This will reduce items for sale as some of those become less viable and stop selling. 

I've seen nothing from eBay that gives me confidence they have a plan to counter either the above enforced changes.

Trying to plug their own profitability by adding cost to sellers (mainly through PL) actually makes things worse.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I honestly doubt that having to provide your NI number, will put that many people off.

And there are thresholds where they will require it, and as they are either sales of £1740 (after fees), or more than 30 sales, I would imagine, that the majority of real private sellers, won't even hit those.

So overall, I think it's unlikely to make much difference, particularly when people need money.

As for the Compliance, how many sellers are really still selling that much into the EU etc?  An awful lot pulled out when Brexit happened, so overall, I really can't see it making an awful lot of difference.

There will not be that many, who's main markets are the EU from the UK.  Those that are, will probably have already setup in the EU directly, to avoid a lot of the Brexit type issues.

And for the rest of us, it's just a case of switching off sales to the EU.  Yes, we will lose the odd sale, but in the main, it really shouldn't be that big a deal.

The worst part of it, is that they are effectively forcing UK sellers, not to supply to a part of the UK ie. NI.

Seems very unfair that part of it.

As to Ebay providing a plan to counter either of these, what exactly are you expecting them to do?

These are changes in the law, of which Ebay, have no control over at all.

[the_book_seekers]

I honestly doubt that having to provide your NI number, will put that many people off.

Depends on what people have (or think they have) to hide and by not providing their NI number they might avoid anything HMRC might do. There also seems to be quite an antipathy towards ebay having NI numbers. For these sellers it will come down to wanting to sell on ebay or not. 

As for  GPSR more sellers will abandon EU selling which will means a bit more of a squeeze on the remaining areas of sales. I've also wondered what effect these new regs will have on Chinese sellers of tat. Will they bother to produce the necessary info (real or faked) or concentrate on areas without this level of red tape. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Well, the thing is, they don't actually have to as it stands, until the thresholds I mentioned are hit.

And I'm pretty sure, that if people want to avoid doing so, then all they are going to do, is to start opening new accounts, which is actually very easy.  So unless Ebay tightens this up, that is what will happen.

But most people are honest and really don't have anything to hide anyway.   I would imagine that these changes are going to effect most sites in one way or the other and people are not going to suddenly stop buying/selling online.  Not sure about the likes of Vinted etc, but I'll be willing to bet, that they will likely have to report sales to HMRC as well.  Not really paid that much attention to it to be honest.

[555njp]

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

Well, the thing is, they don't actually have to as it stands, until the thresholds I mentioned are hit.

And I'm pretty sure, that if people want to avoid doing so, then all they are going to do, is to start opening new accounts, which is actually very easy.  So unless Ebay tightens this up, that is what will happen.

Threshold applies to a person not an account so info across all accounts is sent to HMRC should a threshold be reached.

But most people are honest and really don't have anything to hide anyway.

Not on eBay!! it's well known for businesses to hind behind private accounts to avoid fees and providing consumer rights. It's reported constantly but eBay rarely acts.

 I would imagine that these changes are going to effect most sites in one way or the other and people are not going to suddenly stop buying/selling online.  Not sure about the likes of Vinted etc, but I'll be willing to bet, that they will likely have to report sales to HMRC as well.  Not really paid that much attention to it to be honest.

All online platforms have to do same, HMRC will collate sales across all platforms to assess if individuals are trading and avoiding tax or money laundering.

There are countless threads on these boards about these two topics and eBay haven't really answered the concerns of private sellers, small businesses or large businesses alike.

If you take a look you'll see that a lot of private sellers do not trust eBay with their NI number and do not trust HMRC to judge if they are trading or not.

30 items is nothing for anyone just clearing out some family stuff. This will affect a very big number of sellers.

Furthermore, if small businesses like myself cannot comply with GPRS we will just stop selling to NI. This is likely to happen on quite a big scale as GPRS applies to used as well as new products in virtually every category.

So my guess is eBay loses not only the revenue from those NI fees but possibly a large chunk of its NI buying accounts as well?

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[therenewalworkshopltd]

Yes, the threshold applies to the person, but as I said, if you open a new account, you can get around that.

Unless the rules are tightened up.

Not on eBay!! it's well known for businesses to hind behind private accounts to avoid fees and providing consumer rights. It's reported constantly but eBay rarely acts.

Well aware of the above, but it still stands.  The majority of people are honest.

And frankly, if it makes those "private" sellers get registered as business, that's all to the good.

I was however not talking about people gaming the system, but regular private sellers.  Who are in the main, honest.

It's not about whether or not these private sellers trust HMRC as to whether they are trading or not, but thye have no choice, but to provide this kind of information.  Not unreasonable, considering the amout of people avoiding paying tax on these kind of earnings.

As to trusting Ebay with your NI number, I really don't see how it makes much difference, when you have to trust them with other personal details, such as your bank account information.  If your honest, what's the issue?

I will however ask again, what exactly do you expect Ebay to do about this?  These are requirements in law and not something that they can do a great deal about.

As to selling to NI etc, I suggest you read what I wrote, you have just stated exactly the same!

[nigel_paul_wright7557]

Brexit killed about half of my sales.

In general my sales have been quieter as time has gone on.

Sometimes up and down like 5 sales in 3 days then no sales for a week.

Summer time is usually quiet anyway as people get out and about and on holiday.

[555njp]

You don't have to agree with my reasoning but you are missing the point!

The rules ARE tightening up. Opening new accounts will not get you around the new regs by spreading your thresholds.

This has been discussed at length on these threads and also on Amazon.

New accounts now require a NI number, address and bank account, all of which can be traced to an individual seller. You would need false details for all to circumvent the system which I'm fairly confident would quickly draw attention to you (likely criminal activity) which is precisely what HMRC are looking for.

Of course a lot of private sellers are honest but a high proportion are not.
If you think the law change will force those unregistered business accounts to register and pay tax I think you are much mistaken. It has also been suggested (probably correctly) that there are a lot of people trading on eBay who are also claiming benefits, they certainly won't want HMRC tracking them so yes, there are a lot with something to hide and I believe a lot of those accounts will disappear next year rather than come clean.

Then you have countless cases of honest sellers, nothing to hide, just selling off collections, own stuff etc. If you read the threads, there is genuine fear from people not wanting to have to prove they are not trading. They'd rather stop selling than risk getting a letter from HMRC.

If eBay is hacked (again) the most important data would be NI numbers. They link you as an individual to pension, tax, benefits etc. and you have one NI number for life. It's far worse than losing your bank account details which if all else fails you can close and open another one.

Regarding NI sales, you have trivialised the impact by saying "you lose a few sales",  but I think it's much greater to eBay due to the potential loss of the NI buying accounts as well.

Finally, what do I want eBay to do about it?

1/ Have a contingency plan for the enevitable loss of revenue coming next year that does not involve increasing my fees!

2/ Be more transparent regarding how they are linking user's activity and what exactly they will send to HMRC so sellers can make an informed decision.
NI's are required as soon as sellers pass a threshold so eBay can pass on the info to HMRC in January, however, eBay is only requesting NINOs on new accounts. Why? Because if they ask for everyone that's triggered a threshold to supply it now they risk losing a high percentage of those sellers immediately.

3/ GPSR eBay need to answer the questions raised in the last couple of weekly chats.

 Too many to list here but e.g.:
-  Advise sellers exactly how eBay as a platform will comply as the current selling template is inadequate.

- Explain if listings that do not comply will be removed, hidden from EU buyers or what?

- Advise how they will adhere to the regulations for private sellers as they are currently exempt (fails compliance).

- Consider holding databases of manufacturers names, addresses, contact details and multi-lingual instructions, at least for common, core products to help businesses comply.

Weekly chats and other threads have not succeeded in getting any answers yet.

Anyway, back on topic, my answer is B for the reasons fully stated earlier! 

[theelench]

I think you have a better grasp of how this measure will affect private sellers than @therenewalworkshopltd  does. 

Particularly when it comes to the reaction of those "...countless cases of honest sellers, nothing to hide, just selling off collections, their own stuff etc."

I'm (possibly) fairly typical of many of them.  Age 71 and been retired (from 30 years of Self-Employment) for 4 years.  Been collecting Art Deco for about 50 years, mostly glassware, much of which I now want to dispose of to save my heirs the hassle of doing so.

First and foremost I think reversing what I've been told all my working life, that my NINO should not be handed out to anyone who asks for it, is sheer stupidity on the part of the UK Govt., especially when it has to be given to overseas companies.  Doing so completely ignores any implications for my security that may arise.  Ebay will not be getting my NINO, if that means I can no longer sell here, I will stop selling here.

As has been said on previous threads, many will have had no experience of HMRC processes beyond the PAYE system and do not wish to have, they will most likely stop selling as well.  Others, like myself, will have had experience and know what a chore keeping adequate records and filing Self Assessment returns can be and after 30 years think that it's a darned cheek to be required to go on keeping, effectively, business accounts in order to dispose of my own property.

The fear is caused by what is the complete change in HMRC policy.  Until now it's always been the case that selling personal possessions can be done (mostly) without tax implications.  That has now effectively been reversed and HMRC can demand proof that a private person is not trading where no such requirement has been before, so no proof exists, leaving them open to tax demands that they cannot disprove.   This is a fundamental change with implications for the whole concept of selling personal possessions, free from tax liabilities.

In effect from this point on anyone who collects anything which involves any buying and selling is going to have to keep a set of books ready to ward of HMRC who will be able to demand to see them just to prove that the collector is not trading.  Failure to do so will result in a tax bill (probably with penalties, fines and interest added).