Royal Mail saying I cancelled labels and re-used them

[wargamebits]

Just this last week I've had 5 Cancelled Label Surcharges with Royal Mail where they are saying I've used a label that I've cancelled.

Previous to this we've had about 1 of these a year so it seems that something funny is going on.

In Click & Drop for the items they are saying we've cancelled it says "dispatched" and "manifested" with the tracking number that they say was cancelled.

Now if that was the case wouldn't the item have had postage reset and re-applied and then either have no tracking number or another next to it? Or if it had been deleted after producing the label they say was cancelled then wouldn't it just not be in Click and Drop anymore? Is there something I don't understand here because it seems to me they have made an error. Thanks.

[ojewellery]

Are you using the click and drop Beta dash board (I think it now defaults to this)?

I've fallen foul of this - the cynic in me things this is royal mail revenue generating.  The realist thinks this is poor royal mail programming.

In the beta dash, when you go into an entry and edit it it resets all the active unmanifested labels. 

I have lots of postage rules set up to import from different platforms via my third party software but don't have an automation option for adding signature to an RM tracked delivery so need to manually enter this.  I found when ever I edit to add signature it cancels all/ almost all the other active labels.

When I go into click and drop all active labels (or labels generated in the last batch) are auto selected.  If selected and then I go into an entry it takes it as reseting all the entries - but it doesn't show that this has happened in the dash board. 

To get around this, I've found I need to ensure I've unselected all entries before going into a single entry.  Touch wood, I've not had any fines in the last month or so.

[wargamebits]

This is what it might be this last point you mention because we're not suddenly doing things differently. It's happening so often this it's a joke. I don't like dealing with them either because it's like some Kafka-esque type experience each time but I'm going to contact finance. Thankyou for your reply.

[bennotbill]

I'm just curious if you've tried the tracking on any of those cancelled labels to see what it says.

[wargamebits]

Yes they're are in the mail system - we can see the tracking updates because as far as we are aware we didn't cancel them. When I called up today the guy seemed to suggest that we must have thrown the label away or sent with the label and then deleted it in C&D.

[wargamebits]

Got a reply from RM finance sayings it's accurate the surcharges. Then the usual merry-go-round of trying to find someone to speak to either at their helpline or the C&D helpline who understands. Finally got a great guy who understood exactly what I mentioned originally namely that if an item has been cancelled then it either appears dispatched and manifested with another tracking number or none or doesn't appear in C&D at all if it has been deleted. Sent screenshots to finance. Next step will be videoing what is going on.

[simplyessential_uk]

I closed my RM account after they happily dipped into my account and took hundreds for "incorrectly" marking as LL when parcels, they charged for the missing money AND surcharges - I wrote and asked for proof of this accusation (as I know it was rubbish as I have a size checking template) the reply was (I paraphrase here: "You are not a big enough account for us to be collecting proof for you" - At the time I was paying them approx £17k approx a year - Their attitude of "tough" really got me annoyed and I moved all parcels over to Yodel - I left them the LL and Islands etc and then got a stinking letter saying I had dropped below the "agreed" contract and that my price per item would increase (think it was a penny or 2) - Not a call to ask why, or what can we do to get back your business.  So I just went over to the click and drop online and paid per LL and handed them to the post man which was no harder than if I had taken my bag to drop off Except they cant dip into my bank account any more and I have not had 1 challenged and surcharged at the other end.   I think RM are a rule unto themselves.

[wargamebits]

That's terrible but it doesn't surprise me. I always get the feeling with them that they don't care enough like another company would if you were spending tens of thousands a year. The systems and software they use should be like that of a banks but its far from that, hence the recent Cyber Attack and various other incidents like the Horizon mess. 

[bravergrace]

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@wargamebits wrote:

 the Horizon mess. 

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To be fair, Horizon was specifically a Post Office problem - but the attitude of "our computer says it, and computers are always right" is certainly one that afflicts Royal Mail.  Sometimes it seems that they would rather lose ALL their customers than admit the possibility of a programming error.

[simplyessential_uk]

What is odd is that they did it 2 months in a row, didnt notice 1st month as it was at the back of the bill under adjustments, then next month I did see it.  I felt like business post was going through a different check system as if they knew they could just dip into the DD.   I mentioned it to my post master and he said a new software had come in that was sorting by weight/width, which then made sense how it could pick up my account easily and the bill automatically, perhaps the mailing bag sticking up and hitting the laser triggering an adjustment and it knew my acc by QR to bill. My bill had 42 recatagerised LL to parcels then penalties ontop, then again, i think i remember 35 again recategorised, so you can appreciate it was well over £100.   Funny since Ive now moved to click & drop pay by c/card online Ive not had 1 issue as they cant take the money and the recipient hasnt been billed either, guess they dont use that software for non business accounts..  Also never had a call trying to ask why they had lost my business.  I mentioned this about a yr ago on a thread and about 5 other ppl said same had happened to them and how they too left, I talled up approx £100k of business theyd lost over this 5 ppl too, they just dont seem to care, their CS is horrendous.

[wargamebits]

Yes the software is so bad it's incredible given something of such national importance and the type of business it is. You can tell from the OBA system which looks like it's running off Windows 95. They just don't care at the top the fat cats to spend the millions it would cost to have a system that a bank would insist on.

The customer service is poor when things go wrong. They are quick to blame the customer and if you're spending £20,000 a year then you would think it would be possible to speak to a named person like with ebay once you start spending enough.

They've lost a lot of business recently with the strikes, cyber attack and then things like this.

[simplyessential_uk]

Many moons ago a business account was worth it, i think you had to aend over 100 a week to get it and thd price difference was something like 20p per parcel.  Then it all changed to 20 parcels a week for an account and saves you a cpuple of pence compared to click & drop.  Pointless now unless you have a collection, but so many couriers now to compete with.  When talking to the post master about my incident and mentioned I spent £17k but apparently that wasnt big enough, he said that they were chasing (cant remember the big high street name) for £1m underpaid post.  I bet all their resources were on that rather than actually trying to retain business.  If I tallied £100k just with 5 ppl on an ebay forum chat, its not rocket science to think x10 you have £1m and the rest.

[wargamebits]

Got a reply today, Royal Mail are going to refund me all the cancelled label surcharges. Now got an issue which seems to be happening more and more where buyers say they have not received items despite tracking showing as delivered. Thanks all.

[ojewellery]

Now that's a result.  Royal mail backing down.  I'm impressed.

[mark8101970]

Hi, I have just seen your thread- we had exactly the same thing- surcharged for over £150 over a couple of weeks- (as I didn't notice initially) where they said we were using cancelled labels when we hadn't cancelled them. We have since removed ourseIves from the new BETA software and haven't had this happen anymore. I have sent numerous emails but they haven't backed down- did you speak to any particular department or person? I am so annoyed as I would never use cancelled labels!

[padanpcparts]

I did exactly the same. After RM stopped sending International items at the start of the year (Blamed the Ruskis), made 4-5 price increases a year, then started giving me 'incorrect item surcharges', (I have a Royal Mail size guide given to me by...Royal Mail!) I just sacked them off. ALL my international post and parcels went to EVRI and they got to keep my cheap LL and standard letter items (the ones they don't really want anyway). That's about £1500 a month they lost. They didn't care in the slightest. I'm too small for them to give a s***. 

They also randomly started changing their Direct Debits whenever they felt like it. I was monthly, they changed it to weekly, then fornightly, then weekly again. No explanation, no e-mails, no letters. Just taking what they wanted when they wanted from my bank. Customer services initially told me it was 'an error', then tried to give me complete garbage about falling below credit limits, then that I wasn't sending enough, then back to the start. 

They also NEVER paid missing item claims.

Royal Mail are possibly the worst company I have ever dealt with from a business perspective. Their 'business' customer servies is probably the rudest team of c**** I have had the mispleasure of speaking to. 

EVRI on the other hand have been fantastic for the last year. Very few losses, claims process is decent, portal is good and they are now cheaper.

EDIT: The guys at my local Royal Mail depo are awesome.

[simplyessential_uk]

As of May 2023 RM reported losses of £1Bn.  They blame it on strike action and the fines that were imposed due to missed targets, but can not see that they have lost so much business post due to their awful service.  They are money grabbing thieves.  I even hate sending LL as they advertise compensation upto £20 when you buy, but get a book of 1st class stamps if you dare claim, but what am I to do with a book of 1st class stamps -they could atleast send a book of LL stamps that I can use,  as a business Im losing the missing items (that they almost always never scan) Yodel and Evri now have an app for the customer to pinpoint safe place/what3words/neighbough - RM just send an email with a 3hr window that they never even keepto

[palison_123]

Hi

I have this several times with RM ,where they have added a penalty because an item was `overweight ect.`

Every-time I have filled their complaint form and asked them what parcel does the penalty relate too and I have won every-time .

After 4 attempts by them to defrauded me out of money they have stopped .

[pure_seeds]

4 years without surcharges, our mail is always very well under the 99g large letter weight limit and Ive had surcharges to say it's over and the costs. 
I suspect as no one has mentioned this as a technical glitch:

that someone is weighing the sack/bag and dividing by the amount for large letter, it's not programmed or accounting to remove the bag weight from the automated checking system. 

Or they are doing this to more of us than we know. 

Furthermore, we also got moved from a regular 30 day invoice and direct debit to a weekly, fortnight, whenever they like. 

[padanpcparts]

Thats funny, I have lost every time and the process is time consuming.