Private Sellers continuing to operate as businesses

[reynardnoirrailwayana2015]

Hi all, 

I know there was another thread on this topic closed recently, but as a business seller doing things properly, I am increasingly being undercut by private sellers who are clearly businesses but have not registered as such. One seller I have seen in the same category we mostly operate in has had over 7,000 sales and has sold over 300 items in the last 12 months, and has over 400 items listed. This clearly is not someone who is operating as a business but is registered as a private seller. There are of course endless similar examples of this. 

eBay could easily police this but clearly opts not to, but should we as business sellers be able to report private accounts that are acting as businesses. Or are we all just hoping HMRC take action on these sellers (HMRC being efficient and fast moving seems unlikely).

What action should eBay be taking to protect and encourage business sellers, who seem to be at a massive disadvantage...

[bojangled]

@british-ceramics-and-paintings @lupo-store 

Interesting developments on the payments front for private sellers though. It seems from February payments on hold until confirmation of delivery or 14 days, (similar to Vinted) along with the withdrawal of some promotional tools this is is eBay’s way of getting some ‘private sellers’ to trade as a business correctly. 

Trouble is those jargon filled changes to payment terms emails aren’t easy to extract the exact information from. Be a few surprised sellers come February. Clearer announcement would be fairer.

At least it’s a step in the right direction.

Jo

[vintique*violet]

I don't think it will " rid" Business traders masquerading as Private... they have been around for years, just more seeking their chances since the " free to sell" 

Droves of genuine sellers  will leave - and that affects the buying power/sales too  as many buy more than they sell particularly using their balances... so if that is the way eBay want to perhaps " show" they are doing something for a fair level " playing" field... they have a very long way to go ... in my opinion eBay have interpreted  "customers power" incorrectly as these " measures" will not save the platform. 

[kempseykate]

I agree clearer would have been better. I skimmed the payments update, but didn't see this little nugget.
So now if I sell a booklet for a couple of quid, and send it using a stamp I will have to wait a whole 2 weeks to get my money!

Most of my stuff is tracked, but I wonder what happens when the tracking doesn't work (as if often the case on ebay)?

I honestly don't see this solving the issue of incorrectly registered business sellers, it will  more likely result in a huge exodus of private sellers (I'm not sure that I want to have to wait 2 weeks for my payment).  And if they aren't selling on here, they most certainly won't buying - so it may not be 'a step in the right direction'.

[bojangled]

@vintique*violet, but the same processes are in place on other platforms, where will they go?

One private seller in one of my categories has over 5,000 multiple quantity items listed, delivers as 2nd class large letter, is also probably doing a nice trade in the EU given the forthcoming GPSR. 
Given RM lack of scanning at delivery point the new process  is not ideal for such a ‘business’. 
I’d like to think it will encourage some sort of return to legal trading.
And not to poo poo your statement, but droves were going to leave when PayPal was dropped and Managed Payments installed. I don’t doubt it won’t sit well with some.
We will see, who knows what’s going to happen. 
Jo

[british-ceramics-and-paintings]

It seems ebay is just going to create roundabout ways of trying to deal with the issue of business sellers trading on private accounts rather than just dealing with it in a direct and efficient manner.

Literally all of the businesses trading on private accounts in the categories I sell in are carrying on as they were, many have saved hundreds / thousands of pounds in fees since October.

The whole situation is a total and utter joke.

[vintique*violet]

That is looking at those who are masquerading - if eBay wanted rid, they could do it easily without penalising genuine private sellers, as that is what they are doing by lumping us all in together! ...  They can stay if they like,  but for the very small GENUINE PRIVATE seller this will affect them exponentially ...So if eBay want to keep "those" business/private sellers they can, and probably will as they will have their funds on " hold" ..BUT  they will lose good " customers"... Private sellers who are " offloading" genuine items ( and often are the biggest buyers on eBay) and NOT a business will find another way... having to wait for 7  or 14 days or possibly more is robbery IMO. 

We are NOT eBays employees! 

Edit to add - I have only ever used eBay no other platform - eBay are no longer satisfying my criteria and reasoning of choosing it to sell & buy. 

[the_book_seekers]

I don’t think the payment hold will do anything to business sellers on private accounts. The no fee selling is too lucrative, they will adapt to the new rules and carry on as normal. I can see this upsetting the genuine private sellers - the ones that eBay is trying to attract back to the site.  It may work on VInted if that’s the way they’ve always operated. This is eBay and people have different expectations. This will dwarf the protests that followed the introduction of managed payments.

[nutrafituk]

From Sky News this morning:

HMRC issues tax clarification - as Vinted and eBay to start sharing seller information with tax man People selling unwanted items online can continue to do so without any new tax obligations, HM Revenue and Customs has confirmed. Online platforms will start sharing sales data with HMRC from January - a new process that, when announced last year, generated concerns that a new tax was being introduced. But whether you're selling some shirts on Vinted, DVDs on eBay, or unwanted Christmas presents Depop - nothing has changed.

A survey conducted by eBay showed that two in five online sellers believe that they would be subject to tax for selling second-hand goods online. When asked about the specifics, almost six in 10 were unaware that sellers are only reported if they hit 30 transactions or more or have sales of around £1,700 or more. Of those who previously indicated they were aware of the rules, 29% were unaware of the specifics. "We cannot be clearer - if you are not trading and just occasionally sell unwanted items online - there is no tax due," Angela MacDonald, HMRC's deputy chief executive, said. "As has always been the case, some people who are trading through websites or selling services online may need to be paying tax and registering for self-assessment."

The sharing of sales data does not automatically mean the individual needs to complete a tax return. However, those who may need to register for self-assessment and pay tax, include those who:

• Buy goods for resale or make goods with the intention of selling them for a profit;
• Offer a service through a digital platform - such as being a delivery driver or letting out a holiday home through a website; and
• Generate a total income from trading or providing services online of more than £1,000 before deducting expenses in any tax year

https://news.sky.com/story/money-latest-personal-finance-consumer-live-13040934

Just scroll down.

[555njp]

Absolutely correct. Nothing regarding the tax position has changed.

However, HMRC will most certainly be looking at the cottage industry sellers making stuff to sell, or buying from boot fairs, charity shops, Black Friday sales etc. expressly to sell online as a private seller if they are not filling in a tax return.

What nobody knows of course (HMRC won’t be telling anyone this) is what the likely threshold for investigating will be.
I imagine it’ll be considerably higher than the £1730 per year to make it worth investigating.

[the_book_seekers]

I think the concerning bit in that passage is ‘just occasionally’ when referring to private selling. There’s yet to be any guidance on what HMRC’s ideas on private v business selling are, but if this is correct it may suggest the bar may not be as high as some think. It’s been well publicised that the current government wants to maximise tax returns and see it as an area for improvement/money grab. 

[lupo-store]

Please see the following article by a respected e-commerce blogger on X:

https://www.valueaddedresource.net/ebay-simple-delivery-managed-shipping/

essentially eBay are taking over all shipping options for private sellers so that will make it less attractive for ‘private’ sellers as the cost will got up

[gemini-project]

I have now been given a 2nd warning , i hadn't reported much in the last few weeks but did 2 with 2 different sellers.

The sellers have multiple listings of new items and offering multi buy with a discount for the same item but for some reason eBay think better

We received your report but have concerns

We’ve noticed a pattern of unfounded reports from you. Please see our emails following up to your previous reports for examples.

What this means for your account:
We know this might have been an honest mistake. As of now, there is no impact to your ability to submit reports.

If this continues to happen, your reports will automatically be closed and your ability to submit reports will be temporarily suspended.

Why do we have this policy?
Users shouldn’t misuse our reporting processes – when they do, it’s disruptive for our community.. Under the eBay User Agreement, eBay may stop processing reports from those that frequently misuse our reporting process. You can read our guidelines below.
Review our User Agreement

What you can do in the future:
When flagging problematic content, make sure you submit clear evidence of a violation in your reports.
Thanks,
eBay

[krafty-kreations]

Having read that I would no longer sell on eBay if I were a  private seller

What happens if the buyer wants to return an item?
Should the buyer request a return, you may be responsible for refunding the buyer any outbound delivery costs for the label provided to you (including for express delivery), in addition to the item cost.

Just wow!

[southeast-trailers]

Misuse the reporting process, don't make me laff!!!!! absolute shambles of a system, and whomever sold Ebay the AI checking process has had Ebay over an absolute treat because it does NOT work!! I've been reporting a listing for 2 months, it offers 7 items in one add, is plus vat and is in the wrong category, nothings happened, LOL.. shocking platform this.

[southeast-trailers]

This is one on my points, if a buyer wants to return an item sold by a private seller the said private seller can tell them to jog on!!! no consumer rights with a private purchase!! some level playing field hey, never mind the difference in fees, EBAY ARE YOU LISTENING!!!!!!!! NO didnt think so.:(

[leadhills_scot]

If that article is correct it is totally unfair. Genuine private sellers should have the right to choose who they use to ship their item. I won't be here when this rubbish hits private sellers as I can see a big number leaving which will hit business sellers hard.

[kempseykate]

---

@leadhills_scot wrote:

If that article is correct it is totally unfair. Genuine private sellers should have the right to choose who they use to ship their item. I won't be here when this rubbish hits private sellers as I can see a big number leaving which will hit business sellers hard.

---

I am reluctant to give ebay my NI number (I have nothing to hide, I'm quite happy with HMRC having the info, I just don't trust ebay), but I will probably do it.

The upcoming hold on private sellers' money for up to 2 weeks, I don't agree with - even though I only transfer my funds about once a month.

Simple Delivery however, is a giant step too far, and that will stop me selling (and buying) on ebay. Unfortunately I do still have quite a bit of stuff to get rid of, and will possibly list a very small amount, just to keep my account open, and not face restrictions if at some point in the future ebay revert to allowing private sellers to choose their own postage options, and I want to start selling again.

Incidentally it was the CEO who said this would happen in an interview, so it looks as if it probably will 😞

[kempseykate]

---

@kempseykate wrote:

---

Simple Delivery however, is a giant step too far, and that will stop me selling (and buying) on ebay. Unfortunately I do still have quite a bit of stuff to get rid of, and will possibly list a very small amount, just to keep my account open, and not face restrictions if at some point in the future ebay revert to allowing private sellers to choose their own postage options, and I want to start selling again.

Incidentally it was the CEO who said this would happen in an interview, so it looks as if it probably will 😞

---

Scrap that. having just read this in full, I will not be listing anything once I am forced into Simple Delivery. I choose not to offer and express service - with SD I will have no choice.

I currently have a 4-5 day handling time, because of EDDs. It seems I will only be able to have 3 days max. with SD. So if we are without the car or hubby (the driver) is away for a week I am stuffed.

[kempseykate]

Sorry, I forgot to post the link (due to being really, really cross* about this):

Simple Delivery | UK Seller Centre

*I am much more than 'cross' but couldn't think of any words to express the way I feel that wouldn't be bleeped or banned 😞

---

[555njp]

It’s no different to Vinted where the buyer chooses their postage method, and in the case of Vinted also pays for the postage.

As a business and private seller, this may not be such a bad move by eBay (depending on the cost).

Reading the full CEO’s chat on this, eBay want to control shipping to speed up delivery times (to match Amazon no doubt) and generate another revenue stream.

Realistically, most buyers want their item ASAP once they’ve paid for it so anything more than 2-3 days to pack and post really isn’t acceptable anymore.
However, even to retain TRS status and discounts, an express delivery option has to be offered which I do on my business account but in practice it has only ever been requested 2 or 3 times in 18 years of selling!

The plus points for sellers are that eBay will protect you against loss or damage in transit, you won’t get a defect for late delivery if you use eBay’s label and can have neutral/negative feedback to do with postage times deleted.

Having waited weeks for refunds via RM on missing items which were allegedly insured for the full sale value and only getting a book of stamps back, had false INRs and in the past also had non-removable defects for impossible to meet delivery times (and therefore losing TRS) this could be beneficial all round?

My only beef with it is that it should be optional, not mandatory.