Is eBay a place TO SELL OR NOT any LONGER? Is it dead / dying?

[fixfix]

Does anyone else feel the same? Is eBay no longer a platform for sellers? During my years of selling on eBay, I've noticed declining traffic. The traffic and sales were so much better previously Is it the algorithm that is messing up people's businesses? Always been an "eBay Top-rated Seller." Used promoted listings, shop, keywords, specs, and delivery options including express, "free" postage, and "not-free", promotions. Nothing seems to work. Still getting sales if you can call it this way (0-3 a day), but nothing like it used to be. 

Never actually stopped promoting (not at the full suggested rate but reasonable)

The traffic went dramatically down in the last 2-3 years. Just not picking up. Any recommendations, feelings, experiences, etc.

Thinking of leaving eBay for good... It's draining my energy trying to figure it out, but nothing works.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I suggest that you read my prior answer.

Already answered.

[nutrafituk]

Definitely dying... recent sign is eBay does not block selling expired food any more. They used to do that every time an item was listed or a listing renewd outside the stated expiry date. So much in terms of their policy or UK law, obviously officially 'they do not allow' and it is a 'seller's responsibilty'. Plenty of fees on thise sales. Every penny counts.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I am really not an Ebay champion.  However, I'm getting fed up of those who constantly put down on something that is doing ok.  They have a LOT of new competition, but that does not mean that they are dying.

Sure, people do stuff like sell expired food, that kind of thing has always been a problem.

But that does not mean that they are grabbing at fees just for the sake of it.  

If the company was really struggling, I'm pretty sure that they would be laying off staff, as that is generally the first thing that gets cut.

I concede that the company is not doing great!  But they are still trading and they are still trading billions of pounds/dollars etc.  And they are still making a profit doing so.

But the more the naysayers go on about how bad things are, the more likely people are to leave, or to no longer sell.  That can be a vicious circle.  So why promote something, that is against what you are actually doing when selling/buying on here?

[nutrafituk]

Not an Ebay champion? Why a comment then. Just read your most of your replies - that should get you an idea if you're asking. Having been  on eBay for 19 years now, please do tell me how it works and how I should find it these days.

No need to respond, I'm not interested in any communication exchange, sorry. Let's see where eBay is in 6-12 months' time. Then we can exchange our opinions again.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

How exactly am I telling you how it works and how you should find it?

Nice of you to be so flippant.   If you don't want a communication exchange, then why post on a discussion forum?

[4_bathrooms]

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@a45heaven wrote:

@theelench 

Sorry for asking a maybe stupid question -

Why does ebay have Private and Business sellers structurally separated?

For whom is it a benefit?, and what is that benefit?

Is it the same in the USA and elsewhere?

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It is because of EU consumer laws that were adopted by all EU member states including the UK when it was still a member. Under these laws a trader must identify themself as such prior to the sale by providing information such their business name/identity, contact information and a consumer's right to return. So eBay UK and eBay's EU websites have this model where private and business accounts are distinct; something eBay have used to their advantage.

In 2015 the EU introduced a rule where the intra-EU supply of digital services from one VAT registered business to another became subject to a reverse-charge procedure essentially meaning there was no VAT on such supplies. eBay then removed the VAT element from their fees for all business sellers including those who were not VAT registered. I have no idea why eBay stopped charging the VAT element to non-VAT registered businesses - eBay claimed it was due to "a special dispensation from HMRC". Shortly afterwards (months if memory serves correctly) eBay increased their fees for business sellers by 20%. Non-VAT registered business sellers barely noticed as they were simply paying the same in fees as they had been a few months' previously however for VAT-registered business sellers this was simply a 20% hike in fees. Then, in 2017 (following the previous year's Brexit vote) eBay announced that UK sellers would be contracted to eBay UK rather than eBay Europe S.A.R.L. as they had been previously. eBay then added VAT on top of business seller's fees meaning non-VAT registered business sellers were now hammered by a 20% increase in fees. 

It was around this point that the issue of business sellers illegally trading via private accounts began as a trickle to take advantage of the lower fees now being paid by private sellers. There wasn't as much noise then because the problem wasn't as rampant but this is the point at which it really started.

Fast forward to the Managed Payments rollout in 2020-2021. Private sellers now paid 12.8% + 30p inc. VAT which was marginally (0.1%) cheaper than the previous 10% eBay FVF + (2.9% + 30p) PayPal processing fee. Business sellers had variable category-specific FVFs introduced; in most cases they still paid more than private sellers (and still do) when the VAT element was taken into account. eBay also removed the volume discounts business sellers previously received and without PayPal's involvement they also effectively lost any volume discount they were receiving from PayPal.

The issue of traders illegally using private accounts went from a trickle to a Biblical flood at this point but eBay continually turned a blind eye to the practice as they would apparently rather receive something from such sellers than the nothing they would likely end up receiving if they tried forcing them to register correctly. The situation was exacerbated by a previous CEO (whose name we apparently shall not speak on these boards) who introduced fortnightly offers for private sellers such as 70%-80% off FVFs. Of course, private sellers and traders using private accounts would only ever list when they received one of these fortnightly offers which were almost guaranteed to come.

So, private and business accounts exist for eBay UK and eBay EU because there are legal requirements necessitating their existence. eBay exploited that situation to rinse business sellers then ended up in the complete mess they now find themselves in. It was a similar story in Germany but Germany's consumer laws are policed by organisations with far more teeth than our own Trading Standards. Germany actually passed a law in 2019 that forces online marketplaces such as eBay to "upgrade" private accounts to business accounts in certain circumstances where there is evidence the seller might be a trader. You can read about it on eBay.de (you will need to use your browser's translate function if you can't read German). 

[bravergrace]

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@a45heaven wrote:

@theelench 

Sorry for asking a maybe stupid question -

Why does ebay have Private and Business sellers structurally separated?

For whom is it a benefit?, and what is that benefit?

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As far as I recall, eBay UK was originally set up as a level playing field, with the same, very sketchy, rules and structures for everyone.  Then they wanted to attract businesses, but the fledging internet giant businesses churning millions of items per year for 99p each weren't pleased with the notion of individually listing each item  - and the regulators and the press weren't pleased with the proliferation of dodgy Chinese fairy lights, stolen jewellery or lethal baby toys.  

So, reluctantly as ever, eBay was forced to comply with basic UK trading laws - initially just for BINs, with auctions being no guarantees, no returns, if it blows your electrics then tough.

Then there was the abortive attempt to separate out the business sellers who sold brand new stuff on to a different eBay site.

And I expect that by that stage, the two-tier system had become so ingrained that it really wasn't practical for eBay  to abolish the distinction.  If they treat all sellers the same, then private sellers will have to accept returns,  and PAT-test their second-hand electricals, and all the rest of it.  And declare their names and addresses to buyers BEFORE the point of purchase.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I honestly can't see why we can't have two separate accounts, so that business's can comply with the law.

But balance that up, by removing listing fees and charging the same FVF's to everyone.

That would solve so many problems overnight.

@4_bathrooms   What's with the MD that can't be named?  I don't recall any sackings etc, though I could be wrong.  

BTW, with the VAT being removed from none registered sellers, they did exactly the same on Amaxxn too.

So it was obviously some sort of loophole that was exploited.
You could even apply for the VAT paid over specific periods to be refunded to you.
And I do remember getting a fairly hefty refund from them of several thousand pounds for VAT paid right back when...

[cobwebcottage]

'You can read about it on eBay.de (you will need to use your browser's translate function if you can't read German)'.

Very interesting and black and white. It would be great to see those terms adopted and enforced here too. Now that would be progress.

[theelench]

That's very interesting.

So although I've said more than once that the other site I sell on (UK based and owned) doesn't seem to distinguish between private and business sellers, presumably it does have to distinguish in the same way and businesses have to declare themselves in some way to comply with UK / EU law

Over there they have different seller levels with different fees for each level.  But sellers are actively encouraged to pay an up-front fee to upgrade although it seems to be entirely voluntary it is most advantageous to a seller with large numbers of items to list, so possibly a business, but equally advantageous for someone selling their stamp collection with thousands of items.  

There are many sellers there who have paid for the highest level (some were given it for free in the very early days) but have few listings, mostly second-hand and don't look at all business-like.

I must admit I have no idea (because I signed-up years ago) if, when I joined I had to do any more than tick the box for the level that seemed best for my needs.  I don't recall that any declaration of whether I was a business or not was required.

Is it simply because of the amount of money changing hands that it has become such an issue on ebay, when it doesn't seem to be anywhere else?

[wgwillia]

It's Dead.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

If by the UK based and owned site, you mean OnbXy.  Then you need to be a business to sell on there.

They don't accept private sellers.

The relevant information is all there, you just need to drill down a little to find it.

So if you are registered as an individual, they will assume that you are a sole trader.

[graja94]

I have been buying from eBay for many years, I have a stall On a local collectors/flea market, unfortunately the price expectations of some sellers seems to be ruining it for others, I deal in art nouveau, WMF, French , Victorian glass, arts & crafts era and silver etc, I see a lot on eBay that I currently have for sale, eBay prices are triple to what I charge, when I sell my items, I cannot use eBay,Etsy, etc to restock, I don’t mind paying any amount for something if it is sold at a price in relation to its worth, I recently sold a double ended silver topped perfume bottle for £92, to replace that from eBay I would have to pay £200 or more, the same scenario with everything else I have sold in the last few weeks, it is now cheaper for me to buy at auction and pay the buyers commission!, eBay sellers are the ones who are killing it, I have money to spend but totally over inflated prices are stopping me.

[edwardian-dreams]

One sale in one month versus a dozen or more  before 

yep I’d tend to agree 

btu eBay keep sending me 

Emails to tell me why my items shoudl be improved 

never had a problem before with my pics, descriptions postage non promotion etc 

they did just fine 

[4_bathrooms]

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

What's with the MD that can't be named?  I don't recall any sackings etc, though I could be wrong.  

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His name apparently can't be mentioned; if you try to post it you get a red warning telling you his name can't be posted. It wasn't mentioned that he was sacked...in eBay parlance he "stood down".

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

BTW, with the VAT being removed from none registered sellers, they did exactly the same on Amaxxn too.

So it was obviously some sort of loophole that was exploited.

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I'm not sure about the why or how but yes, eBay and Amazon did the same thing. It was to do with the place of supply where intra-EU digital services were concerned. It was decided EU consumers would pay the VAT rate applicable in their country of residence but due to the difficulties involved with taxable persons (VAT registered entities) and the charging and reclaiming of VAT between different member states (where different standard rates of VAT may apply) that a reverse-charge procedure would be used. This meant there was effectively no VAT to charge or remit; it would simply be cancelled out. I have no idea why eBay and Amazon were able to extend this to non-VAT registered businesses but I don't remember Amazon subsequently hiking their net fees by 20% in order to take advantage of the situation (although Amazon almost certainly has a higher percentage of VAT-registered sellers who would have complained).   

[4_bathrooms]

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@theelench wrote:

That's very interesting.

So although I've said more than once that the other site I sell on (UK based and owned) doesn't seem to distinguish between private and business sellers, presumably it does have to distinguish in the same way and businesses have to declare themselves in some way to comply with UK / EU law

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Having checked it seems you're correct - they don't distinguish between private and business sellers. I (eventually) managed to find a UK-established business seller on there - the seller's listings and listing blurb shows they are unmistakably a business. However, only their general location is shown - not their full business name, address, returns information etc. Other than what can be inferred from the content of their listings there is absolutely nothing stating they are a business at all.

I can only conclude that any UK-established business selling on that site with the intention of selling products to consumers is automatically in contravention of UK consumer law. It's a bit bizarre as reading their terms/FAQs shows they do hold their US-established sellers responsible for complying with US laws such as The INFORM Consumers Act but there is no mention of non-US established businesses needing to comply with their own domestic consumer laws. 

It reminds me of eBay circa 1998.

[4_bathrooms]

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@graja94 wrote:

I have been buying from eBay for many years...

...I see a lot on eBay that I currently have for sale, eBay prices are triple to what I charge, when I sell my items, I cannot use eBay,Etsy, etc to restock, I don’t mind paying any amount for something if it is sold at a price in relation to its worth

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Something is worth whatever someone is willing to pay for it. What you have posted makes you sound like a trader; i.e. someone who purchases items with the sole intention of reselling them. If that is the case it is in your interest to pay less than something is actually worth on the open market otherwise you wouldn't turn a profit when you tried to sell it yourself. Of course, selling something for less than it's worth is not in the interest of a private seller which is why a trader must identify themself as such when purchasing from a private seller.  

[theelench]

The other side of the pseudo-private seller coin that no-one likes to mention never mind discuss but which ebay facilitates at least as much as they do incorrectly registered business sellers.

They've always been here but become more obvious as genuine private sellers/buyers have thinned out.  They give ebay a bad name just as much as un-registered business sellers do and probably helped start the exodus of private sellers even before ebay thought about pushing them away.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Having checked it seems you're correct - they don't distinguish between private and business sellers. I (eventually) managed to find a UK-established business seller on there - the seller's listings and listing blurb shows they are unmistakably a business. However, only their general location is shown - not their full business name, address, returns information etc. Other than what can be inferred from the content of their listings there is absolutely nothing stating they are a business at all.

The information is there, you just need to dig down a little.

But I have checked quite a few listings now and have yet to find one without this information available.

[theelench]

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@therenewalworkshopltd wrote:

If by the UK based and owned site, you mean OnbXy.  Then you need to be a business to sell on there.

They don't accept private sellers.

The relevant information is all there, you just need to drill down a little to find it.

So if you are registered as an individual, they will assume that you are a sole trader.

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Not Onbxy ,

ebid