INR case opened and issue refund within 20 minutes!

[petstation1989]

Is there some new rules with eBay cases?

I've just had a buyer open a case and while I'm looking at the tracking etc I get another message saying they have closed the case with a refund to the buyer.

This all happened in about 20 minutes. How was I suppose to be able to offer any sort of resolution myself

Just to add the parcel hasn't been delivered but I haven't received a message from the buyer so I was unaware of any issues until the case was opened.

Is this how cases will work going forward?

[*guinevere*]

Your buyer should not have been refunded unless the case had been open for 3 full working days, and the buyer has escalated it.

If ebay refunded before this time you need to ask them why.

Contact them first thing tomorrow morning on this link: eBay Customer Service

Ebay are supposed to give the seller these 3 days to resolve the issue and if you voluntarily refund during this time you get your selling fees refunded and avoid an account defect. Have you lost your fees, and have you received a defect? If  so you also need to speak to ebay about this.

[dch2112011]

ebay via customer services can close the case in the customer's favour when escalated on the phone and the tracking shows not delivered - likewise customer services can close a case in the seller's favour when escalated on the phone where tracking shows delivered, the timescale is not followed in this instance but not every agent will do this.  

Sometimes ebay will offer a discretionary refund in the same way where ebay refund buyer and seller keeps funds but this option is usually used for not described / damaged -  It is not offered to every case and there is a limit to the amount of times it can be offered.

I feel it depends on the individual standings with ebay but that is pure speculation

Unfair possibly but works both ways. 

[m25jet]

It's a bit out of order to say the least that the buyer didn't have the decency to contact you to let you know that the item still hadn't arrived so that you could try to help him/her out without any need for eBay to start getting involved.  However, what I would advise you to do would be to keep a very close eye on that tracking number.  If the tracking updates to show that the item has been successfully delivered to the address that the buyer provided at Checkout then get straight onto eBay and appeal their decision to decide the Item Not Received case in the buyer's favour.  Once eBay see solid proof that the item has been successfully delivered to the buyer they ought to remove the associated defect from your account, as well as any negative feedback as well if the person who bought the item ends up leaving you unjustified negative feedback.

[dch2112011]

Under other terms ebay quote

In certain situations, eBay may open a case on behalf of a user and decide the outcome immediately.

[4_bathrooms]

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@*guinevere* wrote:

Your buyer should not have been refunded unless the case had been open for 3 full working days, and the buyer has escalated it.

Something is definitely wrong; eBay themselves tell buyers the seller has 3 business days (in reality, 3 calendar days excluding Sundays and bank holidays) to resolve an INR case.

@petstation1989 - how "overdue" is the delivery; i.e. what was the latest estimated delivery date eBay gave the buyer?

[papso22]

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@dch2112011 wrote:

Under other terms ebay quote

In certain situations, eBay may open a case on behalf of a user and decide the outcome immediately.

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Can you provide a link to that please.

@dch2112011 

[4_bathrooms]

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@papso22 wrote:

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@dch2112011 wrote:

Under other terms ebay quote

In certain situations, eBay may open a case on behalf of a user and decide the outcome immediately.

---

Can you provide a link to that please.

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It's from eBay's Money Back Guarantee Policy:

"In certain situations, eBay may open a case on behalf of a user and decide the outcome immediately. For example, if a seller is suspended for fraudulent activity, we may automatically open a case and issue a refund to the buyer"

It's pretty clear from the example given that eBay only do this if they know the seller is dodgy and never had any intention of sending the item. The transcript posted by the OP suggests their buyer (not eBay) opened an INR case, quickly contacted eBay's customer services and the CS agent took matters into their own hands for whatever reason.

What I'd really like to know is how long after the latest EDD did the buyer wait until they opened the case, whether the OP had uploaded any tracking to the sales record or not and if the OP had any prior contact with the buyer before the case was opened. This could be setting quite a dangerous precedent with eBay's fantasy EDDs that sellers often have no chance of realistically meeting.  

[petstation1989]

Nothing dodgy here. On my selling account it has over 200k feedback I've been selling since 2007.

I spoke to eBay this morning and they said it shouldn't have happened. The delivery date was meant for last Wednesday but as I said I didn't know it hadn't arrived until I saw the messages about a case open and closed last night.

They said they will now cover the refund and it'll be credited to my account so I don't know what has happened behind the scenes and it's only 20 something quid but still p****d me off.

[4_bathrooms]

Just to explain; I wasn't suggesting you had done anything dodgy. The eBay policy quoted clearly only applies when the seller's account has been suspended; I was pointing out that wasn't the case here.

It's good to know this was appealable and eBay saw sense. I was slightly worried this might be some new backdoor policy but it seems it was just another case of an eBay customer service representative getting things completely wrong. There should be tiers to eBay's CS reps where the first tier are the ones who answer the phone and can deal with basic enquiries. If the problem is above their pay grade - such as case decisions - it should be escalated to someone who can actually understand the case and eBay's own written policies. Judging by some recent posts to these boards the standard of eBay's CS reps is certainly on the decline.  

[*guinevere*]

It's good news that ebay has given you a no fault refund, although I can appreciate it must be galling to think that your buyer has also been refunded when their item may yet turn up.

I would put this behind you now, and move on.

[dch2112011]

The policy is not just for dodgy buyers or sellers, it is a clear overide of the MBG at ebay's discretion - the example is just that an example not a statement that this is the only circumstance when it can be used - why would you think otherwise ?  

The example is true but the facility can be used at the agent's discretion to cover a variety of scenarios - it is used fairly infrequently but non the less is used on multiple occasions for INR cases raised direct to customer services - I suppose it depends on the agent, their level of authority ie department they work in and what has been explained to them by the member ?

It looks as though the buyer contacted ebay maybe claiming they had been defrauded - who knows and they opened and closed the case to appease the buyer then when contacted by the seller issued a discretionary courtesy refund to appease the seller.

All's well that ends well !

[plpmr]

"It looks as though the buyer contacted ebay maybe claiming they had been defrauded"

That would be a criminal offence and eBay [agents] have no standing to make such a judgement call.

[dch2112011]

Then you need to point out the law to ebay -  often ebay take the easiest route - with customer service if a buyer telephones and says that they feel cheated, defrauded  and the option is there  ie the computer allows then the service agent will take the easy option to end the discussion and keep the customer happy and buying on ebay.

In the same way as there was no loss to the seller - they had not delivered the buyers order , ebay took the easy option allowed by the system to give a  discretionary refund to the seller even though he had not fulfilled his obligation to the buyer to keep the seller of good standing selling on ebay.

I doubt the seller refused and took the moral high ground that they had failed to deliver and therefore should not be rewarded !

So ebay in this instance offered exemplary care to both parties yet experianced members still complain - ebay are damned whichever way they turn - but I suppose it makes entertaining reading ! 

[papso22]

Did you miss the bit where the OP said they had sent the item?

They are now out of pocket and the buyer will probably end up with the item and a refund.

[dch2112011]

No did you miss the bit where the OP said it had not been delivered and that ebay had paid him out of their funds for the sale ? -  so the seller has not fulfilled his obligation to deliver the goods paid for and they may be returned and the seller has been paid by ebay ! So the seller could end up with the money and the goods !

You have to balance the view not just turn against the buyer  and ebay.

[papso22]

I suggest you read what was actually written and not what you wanted to read.

The OP said nothing about ebay doing the refund rather than them.  They also said nothing about the item being on the way back.

 I have seen nothing other than the lack of the 3 days notice to see why the refund would deviate from the norm, I.e the seller pays it.

The information we have indicates that ebay has made the seller refund the buyer for a parcel that will almost certainly still be delivered to the buyer, albeit late.

[dch2112011]

Oh Dear I do believe the seller did not say nor did the customer say that the customer had the item and would keep it  and what I did say was that as much as you assume the customer was likely to keep the item IF it arrives then equally the customer might return it -  both options are a possibility - Why assume one option without the other ?

The seller did say 

'Just to add the parcel hasn't been delivered'

So at the time of writing the post the seller had not fulfilled his obligation to the buyer - it is not sufficient to say the seller posted it - this is irrelevant if it does not arrive with the buyer - indeed the seller acknowledges it has not been delivered.

The seller also wrote referring to ebay 

'They said they will now cover the refund and it'll be credited to my account'

I guess you just didn't read the posts as you obviously missed completely these statements by the seller !

So which part of the post am I not reading ?

You have not seen anything which makes you think that anything other than a 3 day window should be given 

 I once again refer you to ebay policy  as stated previously

[papso22]

Apologies,  I missed the second post from the OP. 

From that post it does look like it was an error by eBay and not as a result of the published policy.

[dch2112011]

I think that ebay used the policy to open and close the case  -  the way that the customer services work is very much to a predetermined format, to put it crudely if the reason given by the customer fits a certain criteria then the system allows a 'button' to be pressed triggering the policy action , the customer service agent has little room to decide for themselves, however the interpretation or how the customers protestation is entered to trigger such a response is down to the agent.

It is all guess work but if the customer rang ebay and protested that the seller had not posted the item and that the tracking number was false and that they felt that they were being conned etc etc - with the estimated delivery date passed, the sytem could have given the option to open and close the case. 

This reaction would be based on what the agent heard from the customer and the delivery tracking which did not show delivery -  this may have been a delivery confirmation service only so had no update as to the parcel's journey.

When the seller with good standing rang and remonstrated with a different agent - explaining that it was posted and tracked and that he should have been able to respond etc etc this agent would have looked at the information and the view point would be different and the agent based on this information may have offered an opinion that  it should not have been closed. 

The problem is that ebay cannot listen to both seller and buyer when every complaint is received -before determining the outcome - speed of solving a perceived problem is the best policy but this relies on interpretation of one side of a story coupled with any stored information - sometimes this just does not get it right. 

The result however was a good one from ebay - both buyer and seller have been protected financially which quite possibly is a better result for the seller as the delayed or lost parcel has been paid for by ebay rather than refunded to the buyer by the seller.

If only buyers and sellers would communicate promptly I am sure a lot of these relatively minor misunderstandings would be sorted out without ebays intervention.