GPSR Compliance

[bojangled]

This is as clear as mud to me. Been to the gov. advice website and various others.
How does a 1972 poster fit in to this process?

It's not an exempt category. 

Advise buyers this item is for viewing only ? 

My initial reaction, sadly, to to switch EU and NI off. 
Jo

[camerapartsuk]

We could always use the address of the EU headquarters in Brussels and
nominate some random politician as the nominated person!

[stampsnallsorts]

DO NOT even think of doing that. That would be breaking all the rules in the book and more than likely would get you banned from eBay

[4_bathrooms]

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@ojewellery wrote:

The business conduct of Chinese companies is not consistent with those of many other countries. 

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I won't disagree with that.

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@ojewellery wrote:

This assessment/ assumption is based on how they've handled our requirements for UK VAT registration and the fact that tens of thousands have bought misery to UK residents by selecting UK address' for registration as these aren't checked at point of registration, they're used when it comes to unpaid bills and prosecution.

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The problem doesn't lie with the UK's VAT system; the problem was Companies House performing virtually no checks when a company was registered. A company is a legal entity just like a natural person; once a company is incorporated it exists as a legal entity that has a Government Gateway ID. New powers given to CH that started to be introduced earlier this year are intended to prevent such bogus shell companies being incorporated so easily.  

I would also posit that many of these bogus companies were not set up by Chinese businesses attempting to evade paying VAT on their online sales as doing so would only work for a very short time period if at all - an online marketplace's own AML checks would kick in long before the first quarter where such a business would be obliged to file a VAT return. Most bogus shell companies appear to have been set up by criminals to commit fraud against banks and other financial institutions as per this BBC News article. 

[camerapartsuk]

Sorry, my sarcasm obviously wasn't received well.

[4_bathrooms]

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@stampsnallsorts wrote:

The problem is with collectibles under 100 years old to be exempt they must be of significant artist value. Yet that wording is very ambigus as there is no clarification as to its true meaning. This even appears in the EU regulations.

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As per the regulations:

"When assessing whether a product is an antique, such as a work of art or a collector’s item, Annex IX to Council Directive 2006/112/EC (13) could be taken into account."

As per Annex IX to Council Directive 2006/112/EC (13):

"WORKS OF ART, COLLECTORS' ITEMS AND ANTIQUES, AS
REFERRED TO IN POINTS (2), (3) AND (4) OF ARTICLE 311(1)

PART A
Works of art
(1) Pictures, collages and similar decorative plaques, paintings and drawings,
executed entirely by hand by the artist, other than plans and drawings for
architectural, engineering, industrial, commercial, topographical or similar
purposes, hand-decorated manufactured articles, theatrical scenery, studio
back cloths or the like of painted canvas (CN code 9701);
(2) original engravings, prints and lithographs, being impressions produced in
limited numbers directly in black and white or in colour of one or of several
plates executed entirely by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of
the material employed, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical
process (CN code 9702 00 00);
(3) original sculptures and statuary, in any material, provided that they are
executed entirely by the artist; sculpture casts the production of which is
limited to eight copies and supervised by the artist or his successors in title
(CN code 9703 00 00); on an exceptional basis, in cases determined by the
Member States, the limit of eight copies may be exceeded for statuary casts
produced before 1 January 1989;
(4) tapestries (CN code 5805 00 00) and wall textiles (CN code 6304 00 00)
made by hand from original designs provided by artists, provided that
there are not more than eight copies of each;
(5) individual pieces of ceramics executed entirely by the artist and signed by
him;
(6) enamels on copper, executed entirely by hand, limited to eight numbered
copies bearing the signature of the artist or the studio, excluding articles of
jewellery and goldsmiths' and silversmiths' wares;
(7) photographs taken by the artist, printed by him or under his supervision,
signed and numbered and limited to 30 copies, all sizes and mounts included.

PART B
Collectors' items
(1) Postage or revenue stamps, postmarks, first-day covers, pre-stamped
stationery and the like, used, or if unused not current and not intended to
be current (CN code 9704 00 00);
(2) collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical,
anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or
numismatic interest (CN code 9705 00 00).

PART C
Antiques
Goods, other than works of art or collectors' items, which are more than 100
years old (CN code 9706 00 00)."

Please remind the Department for Business and Trade to pop my cheque in the post...

[ojewellery]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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@ojewellery wrote:

This assessment/ assumption is based on how they've handled our requirements for UK VAT registration and the fact that tens of thousands have bought misery to UK residents by selecting UK address' for registration as these aren't checked at point of registration, they're used when it comes to unpaid bills and prosecution.

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The problem doesn't lie with the UK's VAT system; the problem was Companies House performing virtually no checks when a company was registered. A company is a legal entity just like a natural person; once a company is incorporated it exists as a legal entity that has a Government Gateway ID. New powers given to CH that started to be introduced earlier this year are intended to prevent such bogus shell companies being incorporated so easily.  

I would also posit that many of these bogus companies were not set up by Chinese businesses attempting to evade paying VAT on their online sales as doing so would only work for a very short time period if at all - an online marketplace's own AML checks would kick in long before the first quarter where such a business would be obliged to file a VAT return. Most bogus shell companies appear to have been set up by criminals to commit fraud against banks and other financial institutions as per this BBC News article. 

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I agree that other forms of business fraud and corporation creation fraud exist and new meassures being implemented are necessary (but we lose out again as its us that pay).  Specifically highlighting  Chinese historical conduct was not lazy cultural stereotyping on my part, see this UK solicitors website 11,000 Chinese firms use one domestic UK homeowners address for VAT registration without their knowl... 

[4_bathrooms]

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@ojewellery wrote:

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I agree that other forms of business fraud and corporation creation fraud exist and new meassures being implemented are necessary (but we lose out again as its us that pay).  Specifically highlighting  Chinese historical conduct was not lazy cultural stereotyping on my part, see this UK solicitors website 11,000 Chinese firms use one domestic UK homeowners address for VAT registration without their knowl... 

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I wasn't suggesting you were sterotyping the conduct of Chinese businesses; they are well known for trying to evade the UK's VAT measures. That's why HMRC introduced the Fulfilment House Due Diligence Scheme, made online marketplaces jointly and severally liable for the VAT obligations of their sellers etc.   

Having read the BBC news report that was the source of that article it is clear the Chinese companies involved had registered UK companies at the person's address then applied for VAT numbers via those companies. Even so, although Companies House was impotent to check who the companies were being registered by you would have thought some automated check at HMRC would have started alarm bells ringing when 100 (never mind 11,000) companies newly registered at a single residential address suddenly applied for VAT numbers when there had been no prior VAT registrations from that address. From the article:

"70% of the businesses registered to <victim>'s address operated in online marketplaces." 

I have no idea how none of those companies' dodgy goings-on weren't spotted by eBay's AML checks nor HMRC's own systems during the six months it was going on for unless identity theft was also involved.    

[4_bathrooms]

For the benefit of the thread this (admittedly crude) flow-chart shows how I understand things will work. Of course, there was no way I was going to fit everything contained in Annexe IX in any meaningful way:

[planet78]

So come December will it be enough for me to remove postage options for NI to get me out of this? For the small amount of sales it represents I really can't be bothered with all this rigmaroll.

[stampsnallsorts]

Snap. EU & NI on all platforms I trade on

[goodfella66]

If the Global Shipping Program is used, will I still be able to ship to Europe without all this bureacracy?

[555njp]

Only if your items are in one of the exempt categories such as postage stamps.

Otherwise no, and eBay should be removing the listing if non-compliant (unless the item disclosures part of the listing is complete/checked).

My guess is for all affected categories, eBay will auto-remove the GSP option until the item disclosures portion is filled in within specifics. But it's just a guess.

[goodfella66]

Thanks. I hope Ebay does have an automatic removal process if GSP is used. If they don't do that, as I'm not 100% sure which countries are in the EU block and which aren't, they should group the EU countries into one removable block and then non-EU European countries (Norway, Switzerland etc) will carry on being visible. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@goodfella66 wrote:

Thanks. I hope Ebay does have an automatic removal process if GSP is used. 

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Toy sellers have already found that if a toy is offered for sale to the EEA/NI and the compliance information isn't provided when asked for the listing is removed entirely. It doesn't just have any EEA/NI shipping options removed; the entire listing is removed along with all associated sales history.

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@goodfella66 wrote:

 I'm not 100% sure which countries are in the EU block and which aren't, they should group the EU countries into one removable block and then non-EU European countries (Norway, Switzerland etc) will carry on being visible. 

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Norway, Switzerland, Iceland and Liechtenstein may not be EU members but they are in the EU's single market/EEA so are also affected.

Northern Ireland is affected due to the Northern Ireland Protocol (Windsor Framework).

The EU bloc consists of (alphabetically):

Austria

Belgium

Bulgaria

Croatia

Cyprus

Czech Republic (Czechia)

Denmark

Estonia

Finland

France

Germany

Greece

Hungary

Ireland (Eire)

Italy

Latvia

Lithuania

Luxembourg

Malta

Netherlands

Poland

Portugal

Romania

Slovakia

Slovenia

Spain

Sweden

[stampsnallsorts]

Afraid not. It is the sellers responsibility to provide the requested information for the products. GSP only handles customs and excise plus shipping

[chimprigsltd]

I may be a bit thick, but I can read, but again, I may be a bit thick

The UK Government document on GPSR NI doesn't appear to mention a responsible person in the EU...  have I missed something.  Ebay appear to be asking for more than is required.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-product-safety-regulations-2005/general-product-s...

[4_bathrooms]

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@chimprigsltd wrote:

I may be a bit thick, but I can read, but again, I may be a bit thick

The UK Government document on GPSR NI doesn't appear to mention a responsible person in the EU...  have I missed something.  Ebay appear to be asking for more than is required.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/general-product-safety-regulations-2005/general-product-s...

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You missed this bit:

"Under the terms of the Windsor Framework see footnote 1, NI aligns with relevant EU rules (in Annex 2) relating to the placing on the market of manufactured goods."

Products placed on the market in Northern Ireland from Great Britain must comply with both UK product safety legislation and EU product safety legislation. The General Product Safety Regulations 2005 are the UK's rules; the General Product Safety Regulations referred to in this thread relate to Regulation (EU) 2023/988 of the EU which is separate (EU) legislation. The EU's GPSRs require an EU-established "economic operator" for most products placed on the EU's single market which includes Northern Ireland under the terms of the Windsor Framework.

In September there will be a green lane opened for all parcels sent from GB businesses to NI businesses but this will not apply to any parcels sent from GB to NI consumers. Currently there is a green lane for certain products sent from GB businesses to NI businesses (things like food, medicines and raw materials) but as long as the Windsor Framework remains in place anything sold from a GB business to a NI consumer must meet both markets' product safety regulations unless the product is exempted from the EU's GPSRs. 

[Anonymous]

In September there will be a green lane opened for all parcels sent from GB businesses to NI businesses

I am glad to learn that, thankyou!

So I continue with my XI EORI number visible on the outside of the package, as well as the paperwork from the GB supplier to denote it is a business to business parcel.

[ojewellery]

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@4_bathrooms wrote: In September there will be a green lane opened for all parcels sent from GB businesses to NI businesses but this will not apply to any parcels sent from GB to NI consumers. Currently there is a green lane for certain products sent from GB businesses to NI businesses (things like food, medicines and raw materials) but as long as the Windsor Framework remains in place anything sold from a GB business to a NI consumer must meet both markets' product safety regulations unless the product is exempted from the EU's GPSRs. 

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In theory then, potentially we could send to click and collect locations - they're a business.  Not sure there's a dispatch option for send to click and collect only though.

[4_bathrooms]

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@Anonymous wrote:

So I continue with my XI EORI number visible on the outside of the package, as well as the paperwork from the GB supplier to denote it is a business to business parcel.

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Your supplier will need to register with the UK Internal Market Scheme (if they haven't already) to use the green lane system.