GPSR Compliance

[bojangled]

This is as clear as mud to me. Been to the gov. advice website and various others.
How does a 1972 poster fit in to this process?

It's not an exempt category. 

Advise buyers this item is for viewing only ? 

My initial reaction, sadly, to to switch EU and NI off. 
Jo

[comrie-antique-books]

I'm in the same boat. 

I sell mostly antique, vintage and collectable books. A book published 1923 is exempt, but a book published 1925 has to comply. I don't know whether this is something Ebay is going to have to regulate, as it's going to be a nightmare for them to descide whats an antique and whats not an antique. It would seem futile for me using the publishers and printers address as “the product manafacturers name and contact information” as in most cases it's a defunct company and I have no idea how to find a “EU-based responsible person or entity, along with their name and contact details”.

I'm assuming the “EU-based responsible person or entity” is like the Geman packaging act. Moreover giving money to some EU company to fulfull this responsibility. However, not only have I as of yet not found an answer to this, like the German packing act it's futile paying a company £15 annually when you don't make any sales to Germany.  

It's seems like nothing more than Kafkaesque bureaucracy one which an aicrafts, drugs and pesticides don’t have to apply but a books, maps or even a birthday card do. I’m already considering stopping selling in Germany next year, but I don’t want to block the whole of the EU.

[rclark8449]

Very much the same thing although i am based in france i will still have to comply , pretty much everything i sell is 1900 to 1960s how will we get info for dinky toys , hornby tinplate trains , vintage cameras etc , i think the krux of this is the defination of vintage and antique , it used to be an item had to be 100 years old to comply , i tried searching on the EU websites to find their idea but nothing i could see helped , as to appointing some kind of agent in the eu to be the fall guy when someone drops a heavy locomotive on their foot seems like paying car insurance and an extra burden for the small buisness to fork out for , i want a proper answer soon from ebay so we can plan ahead , its no use them telling us to get the info ready , in my case that info is long gone along with the companys that made the items , so if someone has some concrete accurate info please post it thanks 

[comrie-antique-books]

Hi 

Yes it's anything older than 100 years, unless it falls into "works of art" or "collectors items" like stamps. 

ANNEX IX
WORKS OF ART, COLLECTORS' ITEMS AND ANTIQUES, AS REFERRED TO IN POINTS (2), (3) AND (4) OF ARTICLE 311(1) PART A
Works of art
(1) Pictures, collages and similar decorative plaques, paintings and drawings, executed entirely by hand by the artist, other than plans and drawings for architectural, engineering, industrial, commercial, topographical or similar purposes, hand-decorated manufactured articles, theatrical scenery, studio back cloths or the like of painted canvas (CN code 9701);
(2) original engravings, prints and lithographs, being impressions produced in limited numbers directly in black and white or in colour of one or of several plates executed entirely by hand by the artist, irrespective of the process or of the material employed, but not including any mechanical or photomechanical process (CN code 9702 00 00);
(3) original sculptures and statuary, in any material, provided that they are executed entirely by the artist; sculpture casts the production of which is limited to eight copies and supervised by the artist or his successors in title
(CN code 9703 00 00); on an exceptional basis, in cases determined by the Member States, the limit of eight copies maybe exceeded for statuary casts produced before 1 January 1989;
(4) tapestries (CN code 5805 00 00) and wall textiles (CN code 6304 00 00) made by hand from original designs provided by artists, provided that there are not more than eight copies of each;
(5) individual pieces of ceramics executed entirely by the artist and signed by him;
(6) enamels on copper, executed entirely by hand, limited to eight numbered copies bearing the signature of the artist or the studio, excluding articles of jewellery and goldsmiths' and silversmiths' wares;
(7) photographs taken by the artist, printed by him or under his supervision, signed and numbered and limited to 30 copies, all sizes and mounts included.

PART B
Collectors' items
(1) Postage or revenue stamps, postmarks, first-day covers, pre-stamped stationery and the like, used, or if unused not current and not intended to be current (CN code 9704 00 00);
(2) collections and collectors' pieces of zoological, botanical, mineralogical, anatomical, historical, archaeological, palaeontological, ethnographic or numismatic interest (CN code 9705 00 00).
PART C
Antiques
Goods, other than works of art or collectors' items, which are more than 100 years old (CN code 9706 00 00).

[comrie-antique-books]

I hope that helps. From what I can tell an illustration from a 1950s book, a photograph, or a stamp would be considered antique or vintage, but some thing like a vintage train or a book less than 100 years old would be excluded. I suppose part B (2) maybe somewhat open to interpretation, but if it is, it's not quite clear. To be fair even part A (7) I find somewhat confusing as photography only seems to apply to limited edition photograph taken by the photographer rather than vintage photographs. The problem is like all these things you need a lawyer to help you understand any possible loopholes and it's liable even legitimate antiques are going to end up being blocked from sale if it's up to Ebay to regulate this. 

[rainbowtrax]

B2 nails it for me. Absolutely everything I sell is a collectors' piece of historical interest. Given that even yesterday is, strictly speaking, history and that absolutely anything could be collected by someone then that alone excludes virtually everything from this stupid legislation. 
Seriously though, if there's no further clarification or solid exclusions before this launches then I'm just going to block EU and NI en masse. I'm not wasting any time whatsoever trying to fulfil what is an impossible task in many cases and a pointless one in all cases. 

[bojangled]

@comrie-antique-books 

Thank you for finding and posting that part! I gave up trying to find Annex IX.

@rainbowtrax exactly this, with one off items the time and effort to input all this - if known - information far outweighs any profit, and depletes productivity.

I did comply with the German packaging requirements, probably sell 1 or 2 items there a month. I'll probably switch EU and NI off as soon as the required information appears on the listing template. Maybe earlier.

Jo

[ojewellery]

I'm going round in loops on this.  I feel like Im not reading the same as others.  So please call me out if you can link to where its saying otherwise.

What I'm seeings is that if products are CE marked you need to have an EU economic operator - which if a manufacturer has gone through all relevant safety testing and compliance to meet relevant legislation they would surely already have.

If not CE marked you need to declare within your sales advert that you have taken reasonable measures for due dilegence that your products meet relevant EU legistlation to be sold into the EU market and have a unique identifier for the product sold to enable a customer to identify it should there ever be need to recall it.  EAN or supplier generated unique number with traceability to the customers who've purchased that item (i.e. sales records) kept for ten years.

So I'm reading it as the 1972 poster, if it has a part number/ print number you'd need to do nothing.  If it doesn't have a product numer on it then you could always put the ebay listing number/ order number on a sticker on it and that ties it back to the sale.   Alternatively, there is a bit of a caveat in the text of the guidance that this unique identifier can be provided on documentation supplied with the item should it be awkward to afix to the item (so the invoice).  eBay are already doing the declaration bit for us on our listings.

[4_bathrooms]

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@ojewellery wrote:

I'm going round in loops on this.  I feel like Im not reading the same as others.  So please call me out if you can link to where its saying otherwise.

What I'm seeings is that if products are CE marked...

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The General Product Safety Regulations are separate to regulations relating to CE marking. Products requiring CE marking (like toys, machinery, electrical goods etc.) are generally covered by their own safety regulations. As per the GPSRs:

"This Regulation applies to products that are placed or made available on the market insofar as there are no specific provisions with the same objective under Union law which regulate the safety of the products concerned.

Where products are subject to specific safety requirements imposed by Union law, this Regulation applies only to those aspects and risks or categories of risks which are not covered by those requirements."

The GPSRs apply to all goods - including those that don't require CE marking - unless the GPSRs specifically exempt them.  

[ojewellery]

Im now at the stage I think this is a whole load of crazy.  I'm catching up with the rest of you on the thread and have found article 16, regarding economic operator established in the Union.

Its very anti green/ anti circular economy.  It means anything not brand new from a big label becomes really hard to sell. 

Why on earth would eBay sign up to this and not be fighting it?  It could kill the platform in Europe. 

Its going to be very hard to sell anything second hand into Europe unless near new with all original packaging and product information.  For smaller manufacturers without a European presence - like the many tens of thousands of UK small business' would have to employ some agency within Europe to pen push - unless we can loby our government to set up a on behalf of UK manufacturing economic operator with an online presence we can register our products on for the pen push activities. 

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

GPSR including Northern Ireland  is a bit rich

[4_bathrooms]

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@ojewellery wrote:

Why on earth would eBay sign up to this and not be fighting it?  It could kill the platform in Europe. 

 eBay - and other platforms - have no choice. It's a pan-EU directive coming into force in December.

As Northern Ireland belongs to the EU's customs union under the NI protocol it also affects almost all manufactured goods sold from Great Britain to Northern Ireland. I predicted in a recent (related) thread the option to exclude NI from postage locations might become a popular checkbox due to this.

[vintage-emporium-jedburgh]

So what happens if you list a mixed job lot bundle

[ojewellery]

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@4_bathrooms wrote:

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 eBay - and other platforms - have no choice. It's a pan-EU directive coming into force in December.

We all have to comply with legislation - I get that bit.  What I don't understand is as a marketplace, with massive clout, eBay haven't stood up for their (and our business) as part of discussions.  There appear to have been discussions  

From the outside looking in, they've rolled over and signed up to go beyond the basics for safety (I respect that), but they as a business of a certain size have had the opportunity to say 'hang on a minute here - what about the circular economy, sustainability targets, stopping goods with lots of valuable life in them going to landfill, supporting small manufacturing.  Are there things within this policy which could protect consumers and support the economy i.e. could sales via online marketplaces be excempt from requirements for a union based economic operative as site has traceability of sales and in the event a user dissapears off the face of the earth there is a full digital record of the product sales that could be used to meet the economic operative obligations.  Can we have a lower threshold for obligations for non CE marked second hand/ small manufactured goods that have inherantly low risk and could otherwise end up in landfill?'

[ojewellery]

You restrict your sales to UK not NI only

[4_bathrooms]

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@ojewellery wrote:

We all have to comply with legislation - I get that bit.  What I don't understand is as a marketplace, with massive clout, eBay haven't stood up for their (and our business) as part of discussions.  There appear to have been discussions  

From the outside looking in, they've rolled over and signed up to go beyond the basics for safety (I respect that), but they as a business of a certain size have had the opportunity to say 'hang on a minute here - what about the circular economy, sustainability targets, stopping goods with lots of valuable life in them going to landfill, supporting small manufacturing. 

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Believe it or not the GPSRs and the "Product Safety Pledge +" are separate things that ultimately serve the same goal. PSP+ is a voluntary pledge by the marketplaces to go beyond their legal obligations when it comes to things like taking down listings for dangerous goods and informing affected consumers about product recalls. Being a Regulation the GSPRs are mandatory - the marketplaces had no say in their implementation. The GSPRs apply to all retail sales into the EU and NI; they are not limited to sales facilitated through online marketplaces. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@vintage-emporium-jedburgh wrote:

GPSR including Northern Ireland  is a bit rich

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It is due to the Northern Ireland Protocol (Windsor Framework):

"How does the Protocol affect the movement of goods in and out of Northern Ireland?

The Protocol ensures there are no physical checks on goods that move between Northern Ireland and Ireland (and the rest of the EU). It does this by applying relevant EU Single Market rules for goods to Northern Ireland, and the EU’s customs rules.

This means that goods coming into Northern Ireland from Great Britain must provide paperwork to show they comply with relevant EU laws, or that they are not intended to move beyond Northern Ireland, and checks may be carried out to ensure they are compliant."

I predict the buying section of these community boards will see plenty of activity from irate Northern Irish buyers come January once they realise they can no longer purchase from a large number of British businesses due to NI being on their list of excluded postage locations. Bizarrely, it will almost certainly be easier for British businesses to sell to Ireland (Eire) through eBay's GSP - where Pitney Bowes would be the exporter of record - than directly to Northern Ireland. I can't believe what a mess it all is.

[ojewellery]

Is it not 'othering' of legislation makers to say that major players have no say? 

eBay most definately do get involved in lobbying. 

Legislation is put in place on behest of an act.  Acts are created by our elected officials, our elected officials are elected to champion the interests of their constituents.  (I'm a hopeless optimist that we're all created equal and every voice matters)

So I get this is an EU act and we're no longer EU, albeit we were when it was starting its snowball journey into being.  But the principle is not them and us.  Its just us.  We need to call out things that aren't right for wider society. 

eBay have a voice with more clout than an individual eBayer and lack of lobbying regarding this regulation is creating a difficult trading environment which I'm confident wasn't something clearly tabled when it was going through due dilligence and being voted in.

This act principle is great but the side effects are such a nonsense, damaging to so many forms of business and for repurposing of goods, there has to be some form of workaround like our government (when we get one) negotiating for those with a Economic Operators Registration and Identification number (EORI) to be sufficient to be recognised as being an economic operator as part of the GPSR act.

[ra-business]

Like you, my initial reaction, as I mainly sell vintage PC components acquired used as part of job lots, is that I will have to switch the EU and NI off in December.  This is sad and very frustrating.  I can see how the "Excluded locations" function will allow me to exclude the member countries of the EU and NI.  I am hoping that this Excluded locations function will then trump the "Destinations" function that I use when selecting postal services - I would still want to select e.g. "All Countries In Europe" so that I at least caught all non-EU European countries.  Does anyone have any thoughts about how these two functions interact - am I right in thinking that the Excluded locations function trumps the Destinations function?

[4_bathrooms]

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@ojewellery wrote:

Is it not 'othering' of legislation makers to say that major players have no say? 

eBay most definately do get involved in lobbying. 

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Oh, they do. According to that report they spent between €200,000 - €299,999 lobbying the EU in 2022. I suspect even using the upper end of that range it would still have been a small fraction of a percent of eBay's total EU revenue for that year. This seemingly lackadaisical approach is probably because the EU (as a whole) is a smaller market for eBay than the UK. Also, like the other US-based multinationals they likely want to avoid poking the bear as they are often the targets of the EU Commission's ire.

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@ojewellery wrote:

eBay have a voice with more clout than an individual eBayer and lack of lobbying regarding this regulation is creating a difficult trading environment which I'm confident wasn't something clearly tabled when it was going through due dilligence and being voted in.

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The EU is a political and economic union that champions inter-EU trade and does pretty much everything it can to stifle non-EU established businesses selling directly to EU consumers. For almost 10 years the EU has been introducing legislation that either borders on or is outright protectionism. Their early target was China but the legislation extends to all third-countries which - for customs purposes - Great Britain now is. The real mess is the situation Northern Ireland now finds itself in; although it is part of the UK it now finds itself effectively in the EU for customs purposes.