Ebay forces upgrade to Business due to new HMRC regulations

[sportex-uk]

Hi All.

I've received an email from ebay forcing me to switch to business account due to the volume of my recent sales. Customer service explained that I exceeded £1800 in one month, so they act in line with new HMRC regulations. The email is a bit threatening: "We need you to make these changes to your account within the next 21 days. If you don’t, your selling privileges may be blocked. This includes listings ended and loss of selling history."

However, As I'm not ready to go business and I consider my increased activity as temporary, Customer Service advised that if reduce my sales volume, I can stay private. Has any of you passed through this process?

Also, what happensto your existing promo listings if you switch to business? Are they allowed to continue on promo terms and with 'no returns accepted' until they sell or end?

[the_book_seekers]

Also, keep your hostility towards ebay who allowes trading on a private account, rather than towards individuals who just benefit from the possibility.

I've always seen that ebay has culpability in the misregistration of accounts and said so. But it is also up to the individual to correctly register and stay within the laws, both tax and consumer. Not registering correctly is illegal. It also gives that business an unfair advantage over those who are and leads to the kind of comments you're receiving at the moment. Credit for paying the necessary taxes, but that's only half of it. 

[papso22]

Exactly, who is the worst offender here, the entity that (mostly) turns a blind eye to law breaking, or the one that is deliberately breaking it?

[sportex-uk]

---

@the_book_seekers wrote:

Not registering correctly is illegal. It also gives that business an unfair advantage (...)

---

Online sole-trader resellers (like people here) could be the same pain in the a* of big store chains due to lower operating costs. Many people go to or order from store, try and return, then buy cheaper from you. And what they do, do they complain on community forums? No, they just do their business and focus on offering something that you cannot and don't care.

If ebay allowes it, people would have be daft not to taking advantage of it. And if they risk with avoiding taxes? That's their problem, not yours. If someone makes 3-4 grand income per year, so they're not under radar, are they real problem for you? I see from sold listings that many people prefer buying from business sellers and paying higher prices and no, they all can't be abusers, who return items afterwards.

Just mind your own business and try to offer features that private sellers won't be able to, you'll get your money share anyway.

[howmuchtobid]

People should take a look at this sellers listings and view by newly listed, it really is a shambles that so many supposed private sellers are allowed to do this.

Now well over 600 listings and pretty much all of them listed to take advantage of FVF promotions for private sellers.

No wonder so many legitimate business sellers are struggling / leaving Ebay.

[cobwebcottage]

They have now registered as a business seller. They are going to have lots of teething problems though as some listings are blank, £1 selling with free postage. (???)

[sagr2519]

It's possible to have a business account and a private account at the same time, using the business account for things you bought/made to sell for profit and the private account for your unwanted personal stuff.

[susapric-68]

Using up his free listing he got as a private seller by listing them as blank and he will edited them later, That has to be against eBay T&C. Got 100s of blank listing up in the shoe category with just a number as the name

[ruby-redsky]

existing listings and promos should just continue

[plpmr]

"That has to be against eBay T&C"

Not just that but strictly illegal.

[rainbowtrax]

---

@susapric-68 wrote:

Using up his free listing he got as a private seller by listing them as blank and he will edited them later, That has to be against eBay T&C. Got 100s of blank listing up in the shoe category with just a number as the name

---

Of course it is: Listing policies | eBay. Getting ebay to take any action though would be quite another matter as they don't act on reports.

[ukhaberdashery]

"Upgrade to business....ebay is going to pass on your sales figures to HMRC, a tax bill could be heading your way."

The'll go back several year and do you for tax . They'll take you sales, minus your receipts of purchase (i take it you have them otherwise you'll pay tax on the total amount of sales..Ouch going back several  years....ouch again).

once they come up with a figure they'll say to themselves was this an innocent mistake or not....

Taken from and online source

"a penalty arises because of a lack of reasonable care, the penalty will be between 0% and 30% of the extra tax due. the error is deliberate, the penalty will be between 20% and 70% of the extra tax due. the error is deliberate and concealed, the penalty will be between 30% and 100% of the extra tax due"

Taken from an online source

"The HMRC investigation time limit is 4 years if an innocent error is suspected; where mistakes in tax returns are deemed careless or negligent, the window extends to 6 years. Suspicion of deliberate tax evasion warrants an investigation period of 20 years."

My advice when it comes to tax is be legit. Its not worth the worry or hassel and there are benifits as well.

[ukhaberdashery]

I sell on Amazon as well and they are doing the same thing and getting their ship in order as well. We are totally legit and thay have all the paperwork concering our VAT so not worried but know issues arrise (like when ebay shut a lot of peoples shop after telling them their VAT details were correct. 10 years of hard work down the drain in one day.  Thank you ebay.

What they have said in their generalise email is anyone who cant provide details will not get their disbursements (payouts) and they will collect back tax going back a couple years.

"In such a case, additionally, you will be required to pay the VAT amount to Amazon to account for the historical un-paid VAT on all B2C sales that fall under UK VAT on eCommerce legislation since 1 Jan 2021. We will inform you the next steps within one week after receiving your email"

Hopefully there wont be any hiccups but I can see Amazon having issues with the 10.000's of people resubmitting their evidence.

[bazinga-games]

I haven't read all the replies to this post, but I have to say this situation is eBay's fault.

OP may well be registered with HMRC - we don't know he isn't - but the fundamental issue is that eBay allow 'private' sellers to have huge amounts of listings which they give them for free.   They have done this for years, so have actively encouraged this behaviour.

eBay should have been taken to task for this years ago.

[sportex-uk]

And that's the point! People here, established sellers assume that when someone is taking advantage of FVF until ebay finally says stop, they're also tax dodgers. I was doing small trades on a private account for years, but never went above £1000 in one year and even this looks painful to some people with thousands in turnover. I started this business a bit accidentally and as a short-one-off last summer and would I go business straight away? No. I had to try it, figure out potential earnings and if there is a point at all in continuation. If it didn't work - I'd stay as private and sell unwanted £3 Hot Wheels cars. I exceeded the volume instead and ebay 'asked' me to go business and that's fair.

[btr.style]

Agreed with it being entirely eBay's fault. 

BUT

Businesses/profit sellers are responsible for making sure they are trading legally, no matter the industry/nature of their profit making. Such as a landlord applying for a licence to serve alcohol, a disposal company making sure they have the permits, business premises making sure their public liability is up to date. It is up to the individual/company to make sure these things are in place. There are a variety of reasons why these laws exist including to protect consumers. 

In the OP's case and many others who take advantage of this way to make extra money thanks to eBay, they are also trading illegally with no returns accepted and not displaying full contact details before a sale takes place. They've chosen to do this by not upgrading to a business account (only way to show address in listings as per eBay's terms), and refusing returns to maximise profits (no lost postage money for returned items) at the expense of unsuspecting buyers. This is wholly down to the seller and not eBay. Therefore both eBay and the seller should be held accountable for it. 

[btr.style]

As has been pointed out numerous times. You had no returns accepted, there is no arguing that fact. This contravenes distance selling regulations and the law. So regardless if you were dodging tax or not, you were breaking the law and that was a choice you made, not eBay. 

[theelench]

Just an idle thought about the "legalist" point of view  --  the law says this.... or, it's your responsibility to do that.

I wonder just how many with that point of view got everything 100% correct from day one of starting their businesses?  How many tried out their ideas before doing their  due diligence and getting their house in order a little bit late.

I wonder if the guy who sold the very first light pointer on ebay had a trading licence, company registration, had opened a U.S Tax Account etc. etc.  or did he do it then think  "OMG, I might have stumbled onto something to help pay my college fees .  What do I do now?"

Not everyone goes through life with a business plan for everything they do.  Not trying to excuse those who have deliberately set out to evade their responsibilities.  But for many life is never clear cut with a plan to work to.  It evolves, sometimes slowly, especially when tied-up with something as erratic as ebay.

[sportex-uk]

Every business seller on here is crystal clear, has been trading fully legal from day one and it's everyone else who break the rules and ruin their businesses.

[btr.style]

I thino you are going slightly OTT with things. Trading licence, company registration, U.S tax account? Who do those things primarily affect? Not consumers directly. We aren't talking about all the complex down the line things which would require accountants, legal advisors and so on. 

Yet the returns situation is directly affecting consumers and is almost always done intentionally to avoid losing out on returns postage. 

I've already pointed out to you before the problem with this. In this case with this seller, someone saves up their hard earned money to buy a pair of trainers. They arrive and don't fit. The person attempts to open a return for sizing and sees no returns accepted. They then have to keep those trainers, will likely attempt to sell them on and with little to no experience of selling or how to present a listing will sell them on at a loss. 

The OP seems to just want support and people condoning their actions. Instead of putting their hands up and saying they didn't know, they'll try and latch onto any defence possible to brush off anything they've knowingly or unknowingly done wrong and have followed that up with more wrong-doing creating 100's of placeholder/dummy listings (against eBay's terms) as a last ditch attempt to milk the free listings before upgrading their account. 

[sportex-uk]

---

@btr.style wrote:

The OP seems to just want support and people condoning their actions. Instead of putting their hands up and saying they didn't know, they'll try and latch onto any defence possible to brush off anything they've knowingly or unknowingly done wrong and have followed that up with more wrong-doing creating 100's of placeholder/dummy listings (against eBay's terms) as a last ditch attempt to milk the free listings before upgrading their account. 

---

In simple words: it's not your business what I do with my account, unless you have been hired by ebay to enforce their policies. Paying more attention towards your own listings will do better to your own business than browsing through mine. Some placeholder listings have been blocked by ebay until they are revised, there's no sanction here. And yes, they'll be gone before renewal and will save me some quid. Again, not your business.

With regards to returns, certain buyers prefer to spend less of their 'hard earned money' and just buy cheaper. If they wanted flexibility to try and return - they'd go elsewhere and pay more for the service. Some would even go to the store, then try on site and pay even more. Leave it to people what they decide to do with their money, some just want to go budget and it's again not your business to decide in this matter.

I've had only few return requests due to sizing and I honoured all of them when people just messaged me to explain the problem.

And no, I wasn't looking for suppert, but genuinely didn't know what to expect and was undecided where to go. But you again demonstrated that you know better what others want.