26-02-2025 11:05 PM
I have had a e mail for E Bay asking for my national Insurance number so i can contiunue to sell on e bay
I am a registered business and have been for over 20 years
I am VAT registered and have been for over 15 years with my VAT number oin my e bay account
I pay an accountant to do my accounts of my sales on ebay every 3 month and now this
I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT GIVING MY NAT INSURANCE NUMBER TO E BAY, and there is no mention of it being safe wit E Bay im furious
04-03-2025 9:05 PM
I'm sorry but I don't get the point of your post in the context of providing NI numbers.
04-03-2025 9:12 PM
05-03-2025 12:48 AM - edited 05-03-2025 12:54 AM
Hi everyone,
I'm waiting for responses from various sources, but I'm afraid I won't get them as quickly as I'd like. It might be that they don't want to provide them because it could cause a scandal (eBay-HMRC relations) if they publicly admit I'm right, or they simply don't have the time. So, I wanted to share some new information I found about the requirements for identification details on digital platforms like eBay and how it relates to sole traders.
What is TIN? TIN, or Taxpayer Identification Number, is a unique number assigned to individuals and businesses by tax authorities to identify taxpayers. In the UK, TIN includes National Insurance Number (NIN) and Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR).
Who needs to provide NIN? Individual sellers (private individuals) who sell goods occasionally and do not operate as a formal business entity should provide their National Insurance Number (NIN) for tax identification purposes.
Who needs to provide UTR? Sole traders (self-employed individuals) and businesses registered with HMRC should provide their Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) as their main tax identifier.
What I found: I found information in the HMRC Internal Manual (IEIM902410) stating that Reporting Platform Operators (RPO), such as eBay, are required to collect data from sellers to comply with anti-money laundering (AML) regulations and other laws. Important points are:
1) RPOs must use all available records and information to ensure that the collected data is reliable and accurate.
2) Verification of TIN (e.g., NIN and UTR) should involve checking the format of the number, but does not require collecting additional information if there are no doubts about its reliability.
How this applies to sole traders: As a self-employed person registered in the painting industry with CIS, I use my UTR as my main tax identifier. I also sell cosmetics and other new items under the same UTR. eBay is now requesting my NIN, even though I already provided my UTR.
I noticed that the field with my UTR in the "Account - Business information" section has disappeared, and I didn't even know when, as I was sure it was still there and hadn't checked it before. Data doesn't just disappear into thin air unless someone deletes it, even from backups. I believe that eBay should offer users the option to provide either NIN or UTR if they have removed the UTR fields.
As a self-employed individual, I don't have to register an additional business with the authorities, unlike others (non-self-employed) who receive another number to remember. I only need to provide my business name during tax returns.
I want to emphasize that, according to the information I found, as a business, I should not have to provide NIN if my UTR is already provided and valid. If eBay has doubts about the reliability of my UTR, they can use publicly available tools to automatically verify its format.
More information can be found here:
- HMRC Internal Manual - https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-exchange-of-information/ieim902410
- Reporting rules for digital platforms - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/reporting-rules-for-digital-platforms
I hope this information will be helpful to other sole traders facing similar issues.
Thanks for your attention!
05-03-2025 1:28 AM
I have found some additional information regarding the verification process for sellers on digital platforms like eBay.
Verification of Details of Pre-existing Sellers: You can find the relevant information in the HMRC Internal Manual here:
- IEIM902450 - Verification of Details of Pre-existing Sellers - https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-exchange-of-information/ieim902450
Verification using information available to platforms: This section includes the information I previously shared, as well as other very important details. You can find it here:
- Verification using information available to platforms - https://www.gov.uk/hmrc-internal-manuals/international-exchange-of-information/ieim900000
I hope this will be helpful for those facing similar issues.
05-03-2025 6:28 AM - edited 05-03-2025 6:29 AM
Your posts imply that sole traders do not have to give ebay their NI numbers whereas posts 3 and 5 (HMRC guidance) on this thread say they do.
Do you really think if there was any doubt about what was needed ebay would not have checked with HMRC before asking for NI numbers? They were clearly aware of the easement for established accounts before HMRC published that and will have a dedicated team in HMRC like all large businesses.
HMRC published guidance does not differentiate between private and business individuals, they are both just individuals that need to provide their NI number as that identifies who they are as an individual and means ebay can report all their accounts together.
If you can link to an HMRC source that says sole traders have to provide their UTRs, that would be different.
05-03-2025 10:19 PM
I asked on the HMRC forum and platform X (in a very limited version):
"Hello,
I would like to ask for clarification regarding the requirements for sole traders when providing identification details to platforms like eBay.
As a sole trader, I registered on eBay as a business around three years ago and provided my Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) during the registration process. However, eBay is now requesting my National Insurance Number (NIN) as part of their verification process.
This means that eBay will hold both my UTR and NIN, even though UTR has been my main tax identifier for business purposes.
Could you please clarify:
Should sole traders provide their NIN or UTR to platforms like eBay? Which of these numbers should take precedence in such cases?
If platforms require both numbers, how does HMRC ensure that this will not lead to errors in tax reporting or administrative discrepancies, especially given that UTR has traditionally been used for business-related activities?
I would like to avoid potential issues with my tax filings – or consider not using such platforms further if these requirements cannot be resolved.
Thank you in advance for your help and guidance."
This morning, I received a response from an HMRC moderator (almost identical to the one I received on platform X). It was very short and contained a link:
"Hi,
Please have a look at the guidance at: Selling goods or services on a digital platform - https://www.gov.uk/guidance/selling-goods-or-services-on-a-digital-platform.
This confirms they may ask for your NINO.
Thank you."
I feel like they wanted to get rid of me, as the response was very short and without explanations. They did not answer my questions. I will not ask them anything anymore, because now it is not important. As I mentioned earlier, I am stopping selling on eBay and will return only when I have no money left to put something in my mouth (just a joke).
As the last word on the forum (joke) and on this topic:
I would like to summarize and highlight the unfair treatment of sole traders by eBay in the context of identity verification requirements.
The combination of NIN and UTR is more sensitive than VAT and NIN. The National Insurance Number (NIN) and Unique Taxpayer Reference (UTR) are directly linked to the personal identity and business activities of sole traders. Fraudsters may have more opportunities to misuse this information for illegal purposes, such as credit fraud.
Examples of risks associated with sharing the combination of NIN and UTR:
1) Identity theft: Fraudsters can gain access to bank accounts, take out loans or credit in your name.
2) Tax fraud: They may file false tax returns or intercept your tax refunds.
3) Insurance fraud: They may attempt to use your insurance benefits, such as pensions or medical benefits.
4) Establishing fake companies: They may register fake companies in your name, leading to illegal activities.
5) Fake contracts and obligations: They may enter into fake contracts and obligations, leading to legal and financial disputes.
Other business sellers on eBay can provide only VAT and NIN. The combination of VAT and NIN is less sensitive, as VAT is mainly used in business transactions and is not directly linked to the business activities of sole traders.
The unfairness lies in the fact that sole traders must provide two sensitive numbers, while other sellers can provide only one. This situation puts sole traders at a disadvantage and increases the risk of potential fraud.
I hope that eBay and the relevant authorities will consider these issues and make changes to improve the situation for sole traders.
Thank you for your attention.
P.S. Please don't talk about data security because in today's world, no data is 100% secure. You can only try to protect it. Every firewall can be breached – the question is just how long it will take to break it.
06-03-2025 6:18 AM
So for the benefit of anyone else reading this thread, HMRC have confirmed that sole traders provide NINOs to Ebay as part of the digital sales reporting obligations.
06-03-2025 8:15 AM
Do you have a link for this communication please?
06-03-2025 8:58 AM
Seems like they are doing business accounts first in batches. I've not been asked yet though
06-03-2025 9:02 AM
06-03-2025 9:16 AM
@a45heaven wrote:
Do you have a link for this communication please?
I was actually referring to the long post I replied to where the poster put what HMRC said in the text, but they have now helpfully provided a link to the actual response by HMRC.
06-03-2025 10:22 AM
I mean your not wrong but not totally right either.
As it stands Apple have no way to access a users account even if they wanted but the government have said either they find away around it or remove that Security in this country and Apple went with the latter so Apple accounts/devices are now less secure which is very sad.
Saying this they'd probably need warrants and all-sorts to get Apple releasing users data and they'd have to go through Apple, not just being able to go in your phone when they fancy a snoop.
I always laugh at the story where police couldn't access a dead persons phone only to some months later realise it had thumb print access doh.
07-03-2025 12:15 AM
I received the following msg from eBay today:
"We're getting in touch to let you know about the UK digital sales reporting law. This law requires marketplaces like eBay to collect and report seller information if you meet one of these thresholds: 30 or more sales, or sales exceeding £1740 in a calendar year.
Since you've reached this threshold, please update your account by providing your National Insurance number.
Your tax obligations haven't changed. According to HMRC, if you're selling a few unwanted personal items, like those stored in a loft or garage, it's unlikely that you'll need to pay tax."
A lot of posters are complaining about eBay but they are just following the new digital law. If HMRC hadn't got involved then I dare say that the changes that happened after 4th Feb would never have happened at all. I think we all realise what a sorry state our public finances are in so the Treasury is find any way to raise more revenue. It's a policy that may backfire as many have or plan to leave eBay and search out other marketplaces or stop selling altogether. I sent eBay my NI number and will continue to leave my inventory online, even though sales are down due to the BPF. Nothing to lose at this point unless more fees are introduced at a later date.
14-03-2025 5:05 PM
How does this affect us then: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/tax/article-14489601/HMRC-makes-major-change-hustle-tax-adopt-US...
14-03-2025 5:26 PM
I heard this info reported on the BBC new the other day. I'm a little confused as I thought it was sales over £1740 (and not a £1000) that incurred taxes. I checked at the government website regarding how much I'd be likely to pay and, after declaring that I was a private "casual" seller clearing out my loft, the system informed me that if I had sales over £6000 then I'd be liable for tax. Apparently, letters from HMRC will be making their way to millions of households informing them of their tax liabilities on their "side hustles". No matter which way you look at this, sellers are losing out twice: First, there is this new tax, and second the dreaded BPF which raises our prices and makes us less competitive. Buyers, too, will suffer as they will be forced to pay the additional BPF. Of course, for some sellers eBay will no longer be a viable option to sell their products. I have seen a drop in sales. While it may be a blip, only time will tell what is really going on.
Here's the link to the Gov UK site that I mentioned earlier:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-need-to-tell-hmrc-about-your-income-from-online-platforms
14-03-2025 5:30 PM
@shade-u-27 wrote:How does this affect us then: https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/tax/article-14489601/HMRC-makes-major-change-hustle-tax-adopt-US...
The trading allowance has nothing to do with the digital sales reporting rules which this thread is discussing.
The only people affected by changes to the trading allowance will be traders. Currently a trader can earn up to £1,000 a year from self-employment without being required to submit a self-assessment tax return. The proposed changes to increase that threshold to £3,000 do not have a timescale set other than "by the end of 2029" which is when the current Parliament is due to end. So it may in fact never happen.
14-03-2025 5:54 PM
There is a £1000 trading allowance for businesses. If a business' trading before deductions is under £1000 then self assessment is not necessary. Private traders selling off personal items having no such limit but will be reported to HMRC if 30 items or the value of £1740 is exceeded in a year. Reporting to HMRC does not necessarily mean tax will be due. The £6000 you mention will relate to capital gains tax which becomes due if an item exceeds the capital gains limit and is not on the list of exemptions.
14-03-2025 6:02 PM - edited 14-03-2025 6:04 PM
The actual proposal is simply one of making it easier to declare income between £1,000 and £3,000, but many, including ebay and the media, seem to think it is something else.
If the changes come in those who would have had to complete a full self assessment return before the changes, will only have to complete a simplified online version, or possibly do it through PAYE, after the changes. That simplified version will be available for anyone with takings of under £3,000 only. Over that threshold and it's still the full fat self assessment return.
It's still taxable, still declarable, but declared in a different way.
This is from the link quoted above:
"Instead of filing a tax return, those with lower trading incomes from side hustles will have to either pay via a simple tax bill or possibly through their PAYE tax code, according to experts."
19-03-2025 6:06 PM
I have just received this email and at first thought it was referring to my private seller account, which I have only sold 1 item from about 3 years ago and only lately listed a few items still unsold.
So it seems it is referring to my business account. Whilst I do not have too much of an issue (or choice!) supplying my NI number as I know all seller platforms must comply to this - what I don't get is how Ebay are selecting sellers? I STILL see so called private sellers with hundreds of items who have apparently not converted to a business type account, or that Ebay have not instructed to do so.
How are Ebay selecting who to contact? It seems a bit random.
19-03-2025 6:11 PM
It's not random. If you sell over 30 items or make over £1740 as a private seller, then you'll need to provide your NI number.