Ebay asking for my Nat Ins Number

[lights-camera-actionuk]

I have had a e mail for E Bay asking for my national Insurance number so i can contiunue to sell on e bay

 I am a registered business and have been for over 20 years

 I am VAT registered and have been for over 15 years with my VAT number oin my  e bay account

I pay an accountant to do my accounts of my sales on ebay  every 3 month and now this 

I AM NOT HAPPY ABOUT GIVING MY NAT INSURANCE NUMBER TO E BAY, and there is no mention of it being safe   wit E Bay   im furious

[its-a-small-world]

If private people are not selling , they are not buying too , that’s the
main issue

[therenewalworkshopltd]

In itself, that is true.

But as regards this particular issue, it doesn't matter where you sell, you have to provide the information.

So if they are not selling here, they are not selling anywhere else.

And don't forget that what you see on a forum, is not necessarily how everyone else sees things.

It is very minor portion of the sellers/buyers that post on here.  And generally those that do, have a reason for doing so.  ie. If they are not happy, they post.

How many people post how well things are going for them?

They tend to be the silent majority.

But aside from anything else, the entire country is struggling at the moment, which really does explain why sales are depressed, as it's most certainly not just Ebay!

[shopping-ferret]

I wish there was an option on here to respond with different emojis.  Lately, I'd be hitting the laughing one... often! 

The number of PRIVATE sellers on the business sellers' board complaining about having to provide their NI details is very telling.  They indignantly (wrongly) proclaim it is an infringement on their rights, declare Ebay are breaking laws and stamp their feet when it dawns on their thick skulls there might be consequences (at last!!)  Then, in a panic, hide/remove their listings, come on here to condemn Ebay, then declare they are taking their - ahem - 'business' elsewhere (but there is nowhere left to run!) and blah blah! 🤣

These sellers who are quick to condemn Ebay or HMRC have NO qualms they knowingly trade illegally as well as committing fraud - especially all those claiming certain benefits or not paying taxes or NI.  These things don't bother them at all.  They refuse to provide NI numbers or register as a business and so their only option is to depart from this particular gravy train. 

I suppose next, the charity shops will be full of their unsold goods.  Or there are always the car boot sales for the time being... still breaking the law by not declaring certain figures, though.

Also, the number of private sellers here asking the same old questions... instead of simply reading the copious material covering the topic?  Do they think the answers are going to be any different??  Seems to me these types of private sellers are not only cheats, but are lazy and not too bright in their interpretation of the new laws. 😏

[therenewalworkshopltd]

"Or there are always the car boot sales for the time being... still breaking the law by not declaring certain figures, though."

Car boots/Markets have always been like that.  Cash is king in those places.
Though how long will cash actually still exist?  It most definitely has a use before date, just not sure when that will be.

Though I really wouldn't be surprised that they keep an eye on this kind of thing, as the traders are generally quite easy to spot.  Particularly when they keep turning up every single week!  

It really is about time that this sort of thing was cracked down on.  And it makes me laugh watching some of these posters squirming....  🙂

[shopping-ferret]

Not sure how HMRC will monitor the above, but they could make it mandatory for all traders/organisers and attendees to be registered and hold a licence number, rather like market traders must.  That further means receipts for purchases will have to be issued under the registered details of legal traders and the activity of buyers and will then be treated the same way as the new laws about selling platforms.

Who knows?  I am sure that as in time it becomes a larger problem - especially with all the ex cons escaping to their only means of freedom to sell incognito; there will be a way of controlling these things to a large extent.  So in order to buy and sell, in the future, all activity will all be registered.  Those who refuse, can no longer do neither.  Crazy as it may sound, this could be the future!

[kelseryn]

Yes, well I am squirming.  I am 80 years old and having been selling on eBay for 20 years.  At first I kept all the receipts of stuff I bought in charity shops to resell but after a few years and a house move, I just kept a notebook of the totals in and out. so, have no real evience of  my costs and profit margins.  For the last year,  apparently I turned over £1700 but my   bank account says I netted £800.  I don't use that account for anything else.  So, if I am asked to fill in a return do you all think I would be charged tax on the turnover amount or would the amount in  in my bank be the taxable one.  Also, I do favours for friends and sell things for them taking no comission and i sell some of my own redundant belongings.  How on earth do I complete a return being fair to myself.  I know, I have been an idiot not keeping receipts.  Do you think I could claim a part of my car expense as I certainly could not do  any of it without the car.  I see the end in sight of what has beern a fun hobby.  Trying to contact HMRC for some simple guidance has eaten up a whole sunny afternoon of my life, to no avail. 

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Ok, well you pay tax on your profits and not your turnover.

And even then, it will depend on your total income as to whether or not you pay tax on it.

So if you have done £1700 last year, then this will be reported to HMRC.

But it's up to you to actually report what you have made/lost over the year.  All that is reported, is that you sold x amount.  And frankly, in the scale of things, you are very much small fry for HMRC.

But I would suggest that you speak to an accountant.  The first conversation is usually free.

They however will be able to direct you a hell of a lot better than anyone on these boards can.

That is the problem with a lot of people, they view this as a hobby and not a business.  When in fact it actually is a business.  But I wouldn't worry too much about it.

What would concern me, is that if you are earning extra on Ebay and you are claiming any kind of benefits etc, then you could have an issue.

[shopping-ferret]

Is that turnover before or after Ebay fees? Also, does the £800 funds you received including Ebay purchases you've made deducted from your Ebay balance? Do your figures cover a whole 12 months from Jan to Dec?

I wouldn't worry unnecessarily. I'm sure HMRC will start by going after the big sellers. That figure of £1700 is just around the limit (after seller fees) for being reported to HMRC possibly being liable for tax though it'll depend on your total income how much tax you'd be liable for.

But I'm no expert. Just how I understand the system. Don't give up your hobby. Just be aware of the rules and decide if you want to keep to your tax free limits allowance or if trading makes you liable, it's still worth paying the 20% if its something you enjoy? With your earnings, put some aside for tax and if not requested, it's a little bonus for you!

Is it worth registering as a business seller?  Have a think.

 A lot of sellers have to periodically reinvent themselves or just make adjustments as rules dictate. You'll know now to keep receipts.

Best wishes.

[bestbargainsuk]

Hi There

You are correct and after contacting the HMRC directly they advise me not to give eBay my NI number.  Everyone selling on eBay must have a Bank Account and the Bank will have a record or your NI number anyway son eBay do not need to request it.  More worryingly is that eBay are now illegally restricting payments on account holders that fail to provide a NI number.

[minihamilton]

I agree. And they’re holding on to your money for too long earning 5%. It’s usurious.
Sent from my iPhone

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Since when does a bank account carry a record of your NI number?

I have never provided this to a bank.

As regards not giving Ebay your NI number, then whoever advised you was simply wrong.

Or they didn't understand what exactly you where asking them.

Your account will be frozen and you won't be able to use Ebay if you don't provide it once requested.

The same applies to any other marketplace under this legislation.

[sml192]

---

@bestbargainsuk wrote:

Hi There

You are correct and after contacting the HMRC directly they advise me not to give eBay my NI number.  Everyone selling on eBay must have a Bank Account and the Bank will have a record or your NI number anyway son eBay do not need to request it.  More worryingly is that eBay are now illegally restricting payments on account holders that fail to provide a NI number.

---

Sorry, I do not believe that HMRC would have told you that as it is a legal requirement for Reporting Platform Operators to obtain and verify Tax Identification Numbers. 

Bank accounts are nothing to do with the reporting regulations and not every bank account will have a record of a person's NI number.

Withholding payments is not a mandatory requirement of the regulations but there is nothing illegal in doing so.  It is one of the methods suggested for enforcing compliance in the OECD's Model Rules. 

[shopping-ferret]

Yes, we all want our money immediately, however, Ebay have rules and they 'hold on' for a reason, and I think you will find Ebay do not earn interest on the funds they hold, although it is there for them to use if required, or there is a dispute from the buyer, but ordinarily, they hold only for a day or two, anyway and I understand why they have to.  If you are a private seller, then this process only happens once the buyer marks it received, or tracking shows this.  Part of the delay can be due to your bank's processing times.  By selling on Ebay, you accept this is the process so know you won't get your few pounds for a couple or so of days, anyway.  I like to leave mine to build up a little.

[rosiemac333]

Once the item is marked as dispatched YOUR MONEY  should be in your account at close of business, the same day. I buy my postage on eBay and from ebay. Once I do that  eBay automatically marks the item dispatched and takes the postage costs directly out of my funds on the eBay (so eBay doesn’t wait for its money). 

Waiting for what? “There may be a dispute”. What nonsense. There’s always been disputes - and as always 99.9% of disputes the buyer will win and be refunded (including getting keep the item) as often happens. Ebay encourages that.

And that’s always been the case prior to delayed payments and the other latest money grabs “Buyer Protection” - eBay gave the best buyer protection  anyone could wish for.

It gives better protection than you’ll get on any mainstream shopping site, including physical high street shops for that matter.

Buyer Protection ❌

Delayed Seller Payment ❌

Simple Postage❌

Compulsory N. I. Number  Vulnerability ❌

And a plethora of other changes over the years has finished me. I’m winding down, leaving my listing there to fester. If they sell they sell, if not too bad. But i won’t be putting on any new listing. I’m done with eBay.

I know i’ll be no loss. Others are queuing up to sell., good luck to them.  I think they’ll  soon find eBay is not the cash cow they maybe under the illusion it is. 

[kelseryn]

My feelings exactly.Sent from my Galaxy

[storage.boutique]

The Government wants to know that everyone who sells on ebay pays the correct tax. This has been a problem in the past as people could sell on eBay with paying tax on the income. Now with Making Tax Digital and the new regulations that eBay needs to report on everyone (private or business) that sells on their site so that they (the Govt) can check that taxes are being paid, it makes sense. Everyone should be paying the correct tax to make the platform fair for everyone. If you havent been declaring the correct amount of tax due on income drawn from eBay (there is a small number of transactions per month allowed) then you have had very bad advice from your accountant and best to get ready for a very nasty shock.

[storage.boutique]

This is nothing to do with eBay and has been widely publicised for more than a year now. HMRC is checking that everyone is paying the correct tax through self employment self assessment or through corporation tax using the MTD system. Your own website payment gateway (eg PayPal) has already given your NI number as part of the money laundering system and will be doing the same as eBay. As I am sure you are aware, you are allowed to sell a small amount of items each month on eBay as personal sales, but the rest must be declared as taxable income. If you haven't been declaring your income and paying your taxes, then you should start now so that you have some data to show the Revenue in due course. My father in law had an assessment raised upon him for estimated profits of over £100K and he was not able to prove otherwise, so I know what a blow it can be. If you have been paying tax through your NI number then you have nothing to worry about. Protesting would seem to suggest there is something else to find, I would think.

[jonatjonatjonat]

As I am sure you are aware, you are allowed to sell a small amount of items each month on eBay as personal sales, but the rest must be declared as taxable income

this is not correct. If all you are doing is selling your own personal used possessions, there is no limit to what you can sell, it’s just eBay now must report this to HMRC after 30 sales or £1,700 ish in the year.

But no tax would be due even if you were selling far more than that, provided it was your personal used possessions.

you obviously state your FIL was hit with a bill, so there may be case of having to show evidence they were your personal used possessions but there must be something more to it given most people won’t make profit of £100k selling off their own used goods

[storage.boutique]

I am sorry but that was changed in tax law last year.

If you are selling your own used possessions, and HMRC think that you are running a business, they can still issue you with a demand for tax based on their assessment - this happened to my father in law. It is then up to you to prove where you got these items eg inherited - you will need to give dicuments. If you sell the same type of items over and over again such as collectables cards, that will be deemed a business. Assessments of income can go back multiple years, like my Father in Law. From memory, they can go back 7 years and tot up how much they think you owe. They dont tend to be conservative - they will overestimate by a lot to ensure that you make every effort to provide documentation. 

Its pretty straight forward really, account for everything and pay your tax. Its not a question of trying to find a loophole. It has been advertised for more than a year and MTD goes live next year. The bill comes due, I say.

[lucy_farmer]

'If you are selling your own used possessions, and HMRC think that you are running a business, they can still issue you with a demand for tax based on their assessment.....'

'it is then up to you to prove where you got these items eg inherited - you will need to give dicuments. '

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How?

Husband and I have 'inherited' the entire contents of his parents house, the entire contents of his cousin's house and half of his sister's clobber.

No tax inspector, however enthusiastic, is going to expect reciepts for that lot. Some of it goes back 70 years....

Anything over the Capital Gains Tax limit;  I can see that might need a closer look. 

But 'your own used or inherited possessions'? 

I'm sceptical.