Buyer Protection is coming soon

[nutrafituk]

Just announced - finally some sort of good news for business accounts basically saying ONLY PRIVATE SELLERS will have this fee added (£0.75 fixed + various %). Hopefully that will make a difference for genuine business sellers and make those dodgy ones re-think their position:

We’re excited to announce that from 4 Feb, buyers will benefit from a brand new protection every time they shop on eBay. What’s even better is that this comes at no extra cost to you or your buyers. To give your buyers more confidence and security when shopping, Buyer Protection will be included on every purchase on ebay.co.uk. We’ve kept things simple for you, so there’s nothing you need to do to access this protection. These are all part of our efforts to make eBay the best marketplace for our community. Here’s how the recent changes will benefit you.

Why Buyer Protection is good for your business As a business seller, Buyer Protection is included for free for you and your buyers. They’ll get the protection, without the cost. With Buyer Protection, all buyers and sellers will now get 24/7 customer support where you can connect with a real person by phone whenever you need, or start a chat to get quick answers. We’ve also still got you covered with secure transactions, thanks to payments that are encrypted end-to-end and handled by our trusted payment partners.

We’re always looking for more ways to help drive sales to your business, so from 20 Jan, Coupons, Multi-buy and other discount tools will only be available to business sellers. You can look forward to more exclusive benefits in the future. Learn more about Buyer Protection What’s changing for private sellers

• We recently made changes to our fee structure so it’s free for private sellers to sell on eBay (excl. Vehicles). As part of this, from 4 Feb, a Buyer Protection fee will be added to listings from UK-based private sellers so we can make investments into these protections. This fee will be included in the item price and be paid for by the buyer. As a reminder, this is free of charge for business sellers.

• To give buyers more protection and encourage timely shipment, private sellers will be paid once the item is delivered. There’s no change for business sellers and you’ll still receive your payouts as quickly as you do today.

• We know it’s important to have a fair and equitable marketplace for all business sellers. That’s why we’re monitoring trading activities on eBay to help business sellers using a private account transition over to a business account, or restricting selling activity as necessary.

[insidethe93]

If I understand eBay's FAQ correctly, Simple Delivery means eBay decides/organises which carrier, Royal Mail or Evri. It doesn't say if the seller can choose between them, but I suspect not.

I've had a few problems with Evri on purchases from non-eBay sites. As an eBay buyer, I'm not looking forward to Simple Delivery e.g. what criteria would eBay use to decide which carrier? For some buyers, including me at times, cheapest isn't the priority. eBay mention an Express delivery choice, and I wonder how that'll work. I see that my postcode (which is used throughout my county) is excluded from Express deliveries for clothing purchases.

Has eBay properly thought through 'buyer protection' or can't they see beyond filling their coffers?

[ed_58611]

There are no added protections for buyers that I can see from official statements, only added charges.

[game_raid]

---

@insidethe93 wrote:

How many buyers will look at the charges and decide not to buy after all? So I wonder how long eBay will provide such details. They seem to be a law unto themselves.

If am happy with the price it won't put me off, I buy a lot from private sellers and have 2 metrics, price and shipping speed.

I have a quick glance at feedback and unless it horrific for items not being delivered on time or complaints of items not as described I will proceed and buy.

If you find an item that you been after for weeks and the price is well within budget and cheaper than all other sellers will you get to the checkout and think no i'm not paying it because of the fee that's included?

[insidethe93]

Good points. For me it won't solely be the fee but would depend on the items, how much else is in my Basket (often up to 20 items), which items are necessary and which are purely recreational, etc.

At times I can afford to splash out, at others I really can't (some people, for instance, are on fixed incomes and/or every single penny counts), so there'd definitely be times when I'd have to look extra carefully at my Basket contents, maybe adjust items e.g. buy one instead of two etc.

[goingfishinguk]

As a buyer what if I do not want protection on my purchase?  However I'm being forced to have it.  It's like buying a TV from Currys and being forced to take out the extended warranty.

[dion5feb2016]

Really good point. I am mainly a seller. So as a buyer you will get your item quicker apparently, get your money back if there is something wrong with the item but have to pay for the privilege. Exactly as I will when I buy. I when I sell I won’t get my money until after the item has been delivered. I don’t see any difference as to what is place now. If you buy from me I ensure anyway the items are tracked (tbh I don’t trust the couriers much). I always send tracked 48, sent within 2 days, therefore it gets there quickly the majority of the time. Should there be something wrong with the item whatsoever I resolve the issue once alerted. If this requires a refund, a refund is sent, that refund comes out of my funds.  So what has changed then, I know, yet another ruse to charge buyers a fee. Note eBay won’t backtrack and charge sellers as they used to, they are now pushing the cost of the money lost giving sell free to sellers onto the buyers. 

And yes you are right, what happens if you don’t want protection, (sounds like an Al Capone thing)! Can you opt out by ticking a box, very much doubt it. I go to Argos and buy an iron, they say do I want extended warranty, no because of the cost which is usually almost the price of the item and carries no weight whatsoever if you claim. I can opt out. I am not being forced to pay for something I don’t feel offers me any benefit at all.

[the_bald_orc]

I saw last night that one of my competitors (a former business seller), ended all his listings and abandoned his business account to open up a new private selling account about a month ago. I can't really blame him for it, but talk about bad timing!

[insidethe93]

You already have statutory protection, but eBay effectively ignores that by creating and following its own rules. You shouldn't have to pay for consumer rights, especially not when you already have them by law.

eBay's 'buyer protection', as I see it, was conceived by eBay as:

(a) a 'make eBay rich quick' scheme

(b) a 'make eBay rich quicker' scheme by not giving the seller the interest accrued on seller's money, for up to 14 days (if I'm wrong, please post) - some would call it theft!

(c) to save face for eBay, by imposing a convoluted solution to their mistake of 'no fees for private sellers'

Of course, what eBay intends (or says it intends) and what actually happens can be totally different.

What statutory rights do you have that eBay seems to ignore? There's, for instance, the Consumer Rights Act 2015, whereby items must be SAD FART - for details google "what does the SAD FART aide memoire consumer rights stand for". The aide memoire has been used by the Consumer Association in 'Which?' and by Martin Lewis the "money-saving expert".

A snippet: "By law, goods are faulty if they're not of Satisfactory quality, As Described, Fit for purpose, And last a Reasonable length of Time. ... true...during a sale or discount vouchers. ... Within 30 days: ...usually...your ‘short-term right to reject’. After that, only expect an exchange, repair or part-refund. ... You have 6 years to take a claim to the small claims court for faulty goods [different times in England, Wales, N. Northern Ireland]."

[dion5feb2016]

No different now to when you buy something/cancel a booking for something which you have already had to pay for but then surprise, they cannot give you your money back immediately despite it being taken at the time. You will need to wait 5-7 days for it to be returned. Where is the interest they have made on my money, do I get that back, no chance. Same applies to this new 14 day rule I guess!

[sml192]

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 only applies to purchases from a business seller, not those from a private seller. 

[insidethe93]

Ah, didn't realise I was so ignorant.

Thanks very much for the correction.

[goingfishinguk]

Just for the slow ones at the back... (me)

If I buy an item from a private seller today and it does not arrive I get my money back... correct?

If I buy an item from a private seller today and it is not as described I get my money back... correct?

So what more 'protection' will I be getting when the new scheme comes in for my 75p plus 4%?  In all my years buying on eBay those are the only two situations I've ever come across that I need 'protection' for.

[dion5feb2016]

You WONT be receiving any more protection but you WILL now be paying for the privilege of having it. Hmmmm! Me thinks that this sounds like a bit of a rip off?

[bravergrace]

---

@the_bald_orc wrote:

I saw last night that one of my competitors (a former business seller), ended all his listings and abandoned his business account to open up a new private selling account about a month ago. I can't really blame him for it, but talk about bad timing!

---

As long as his buyers don't mind buying from an illegal trader, he'll still be better off by trading illegally than properly.

Example: suppose you both sell the same item, at the same price:

Item price £10 + £5 P&P

He sticks with an item price of £10, and the buyer pays the P&P direct to eBay.

He is still charged zero fees, so he gets the whole £10 (after a delay).

You pay fees on £15.

Your turnover, as eBay report to HMRC, is £15.

You have to accept returns. (I don't know what you sell, this mayn't matter, or it may be a big deal).

He pays no fees.

His turnover, as eBay report to HMRC, is £10.

He doesn't have to accept returns.

This means you reach the £1000 annual turnover "tax free allowance" before he does.

And any other threshold based on turnover or profits - such as for VAT, tax, National Insurance, means-tested benefits...

If he has other business channels, his eBay turnover may make a difference to his VAT status etc.  

This P&P business - though it may annoy buyers - is giving a huge gift to illegal traders, because they can sell more before eBay will report their earnings to HMRC.  If they sell low-value heavy or bulky goods, they may even be able to double their sales without being reported or having to accept returns.

[discre]

Yet more ill-informed rubbish!

A business seller is only liable to pay tax on PROFITS not TURNOVER.  So, if he sells an item for £10 and charges £5 postage, he deducts the cost of the item (say £5), his selling costs (say £2), his general business expenses (say £1), and the cost of the postage (say £4).

10 + 5 – 5 – 2 – 1 – 4 = 3

He declares, and pays tax on, £3 profit to HMRC, although with eBay's ever-increasing fees the profit is more likely to be 3 pence.

Businesses don’t have ANY ‘tax free allowance’, only individuals have this. You seem to be conflating the tax position of an individual with personal allowances with that of a business.  That can only be the case if the individual is also a sole-trader which you may be. Most businesses aren't.

A private seller selling exactly the same item would have the whole value deducted from their annual £1000 allowance. On sales of anything above this allowance they have to pay tax at the standard (or higher rate depending on their other income), so they would pay a significantly greater amount in tax.  Whilst, in years gone by private sellers could choose to fraudulently not declare this additional income, this is no longer possible because of the new HMRC reporting rules with which eBay has to comply.

The private seller, regardless of whether or not they are in reality a business (it's actually a criminal offence for a business to masquerade as a private individual as well) , cannot claim either the cost of the item, or any business expenses, and so are liable to pay tax on the full value of the sale.

The returns position is also rubbish. If a private seller sells or supplies goods that are damaged, defective or not as described then it’s simplicity itself for a buyer to return these and get a full refund under eBay’s Money back guarantee – one of the very few things eBay gets right.  If the seller doesn’t play ball, then eBay just helps itself to your money from the bank account or credit card the seller has on file and refunds you.  eBay pays out nothing from its own pocket.

With the new Buyer Protection Racket, eBay will be taking two bites of the cherry despite having absolutely no matching costs or expenses.

[studiomaster_uk]

" What’s even better is that this comes at no extra cost to you or your buyers. "

This could have been written by a politician. It is, quite obviously, a misrepresentation of facts.

That aside, the buyer actually pays and it costs the seller nothing. Reasoning: "To give buyers more protection".

OK, so what additional benefit are buyer's actually going to receive for their money come 4th February?

[tressygirl]

---

@studiomaster_uk wrote

OK, so what additional benefit are buyer's actually going to receive for their money come 4th February?

A good question to bring to the table for the weekly Chat tomorrow,  with Community managers at 2p.m.  

@studiomaster_uk 

---

[sml192]

---

@discre wrote:

Yet more ill-informed rubbish!

A business seller is only liable to pay tax on PROFITS not TURNOVER.  So, if he sells an item for £10 and charges £5 postage, he deducts the cost of the item (say £5), his selling costs (say £2), his general business expenses (say £1), and the cost of the postage (say £4).

10 + 5 – 5 – 2 – 1 – 4 = 3

He declares, and pays tax on, £3 profit to HMRC, although with eBay's ever-increasing fees the profit is more likely to be 3 pence.

Businesses don’t have ANY ‘tax free allowance’, only individuals have this. You seem to be conflating the tax position of an individual with personal allowances with that of a business.  That can only be the case if the individual is also a sole-trader which you may be. Most businesses aren't.

A private seller selling exactly the same item would have the whole value deducted from their annual £1000 allowance. On sales of anything above this allowance they have to pay tax at the standard (or higher rate depending on their other income), so they would pay a significantly greater amount in tax.  Whilst, in years gone by private sellers could choose to fraudulently not declare this additional income, this is no longer possible because of the new HMRC reporting rules with which eBay has to comply.

The private seller, regardless of whether or not they are in reality a business (it's actually a criminal offence for a business to masquerade as a private individual as well) , cannot claim either the cost of the item, or any business expenses, and so are liable to pay tax on the full value of the sale.

The returns position is also rubbish. If a private seller sells or supplies goods that are damaged, defective or not as described then it’s simplicity itself for a buyer to return these and get a full refund under eBay’s Money back guarantee – one of the very few things eBay gets right.  If the seller doesn’t play ball, then eBay just helps itself to your money from the bank account or credit card the seller has on file and refunds you.  eBay pays out nothing from its own pocket.

With the new Buyer Protection Racket, eBay will be taking two bites of the cherry despite having absolutely no matching costs or expenses.

---

There is no annual £1,000 tax allowance for private sellers. 

[auctiongabble]

That will be a good question to ask tomorrow however i can predict the answer that will be given....

They aren't able to discuss matters like that however it will be passed back to the relevant team as feedback.  To which there will never be an answer given........

The weekly chat tomorrow will be busy tomorrow!

Will be interesting reading the posts tomorrow and the responses, ebay have put themselves in such a deep hole.....

[dion5feb2016]

I expect that will be exactly the response too. Or as an ex boss used to say to some people when she was bored of the conversation, ‘thank you for your comments, they have been noted’.  I know someone with a JCB, I think by tomorrow they will be needing 1 or 6!