Buyer Protection is coming soon

[nutrafituk]

Just announced - finally some sort of good news for business accounts basically saying ONLY PRIVATE SELLERS will have this fee added (£0.75 fixed + various %). Hopefully that will make a difference for genuine business sellers and make those dodgy ones re-think their position:

We’re excited to announce that from 4 Feb, buyers will benefit from a brand new protection every time they shop on eBay. What’s even better is that this comes at no extra cost to you or your buyers. To give your buyers more confidence and security when shopping, Buyer Protection will be included on every purchase on ebay.co.uk. We’ve kept things simple for you, so there’s nothing you need to do to access this protection. These are all part of our efforts to make eBay the best marketplace for our community. Here’s how the recent changes will benefit you.

Why Buyer Protection is good for your business As a business seller, Buyer Protection is included for free for you and your buyers. They’ll get the protection, without the cost. With Buyer Protection, all buyers and sellers will now get 24/7 customer support where you can connect with a real person by phone whenever you need, or start a chat to get quick answers. We’ve also still got you covered with secure transactions, thanks to payments that are encrypted end-to-end and handled by our trusted payment partners.

We’re always looking for more ways to help drive sales to your business, so from 20 Jan, Coupons, Multi-buy and other discount tools will only be available to business sellers. You can look forward to more exclusive benefits in the future. Learn more about Buyer Protection What’s changing for private sellers

• We recently made changes to our fee structure so it’s free for private sellers to sell on eBay (excl. Vehicles). As part of this, from 4 Feb, a Buyer Protection fee will be added to listings from UK-based private sellers so we can make investments into these protections. This fee will be included in the item price and be paid for by the buyer. As a reminder, this is free of charge for business sellers.

• To give buyers more protection and encourage timely shipment, private sellers will be paid once the item is delivered. There’s no change for business sellers and you’ll still receive your payouts as quickly as you do today.

• We know it’s important to have a fair and equitable marketplace for all business sellers. That’s why we’re monitoring trading activities on eBay to help business sellers using a private account transition over to a business account, or restricting selling activity as necessary.

[game_raid]

It will create a race to the bottom for private sellers now which in turn pushes prices down prices across the site which should increase sales for eBay as they will be the cheapest place to buy for that particular item.

Unless you got rare items you can be a bit cheeky on price then it will not affect the seller, joe public selling off their used levis or generic items then it will be a buyers market.

eBay are a business that has to keep investors happy and will have the data analysts looking at every scenario, it may look to us they make it up as they go along but I don't think this is the case.

[myriad*seller]

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@dion5feb2016 wrote:
What happens though is there is NO tracking available to say it's been
delivered. I have had feedback for an item sent and received about 2 months
ago, the tracking still says it is on its way!

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Payments are released after 14 days where you have no tracking and the buyer hasn't opened a case 

[myriad*seller]

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@game_raid wrote:

No one will be paying extra? It is down to the seller to set prices, as a buyer they will never see the extra fee that is being added, they see the one price, if they are happy with it they pay or continue searching for another seller that is cheaper.

Don't forget the private seller has no fees to they can sell cheaper than a business.

As a business we have margins to work to as you do, as a private seller wanting to get rid of stuff may be happy to let things go cheap just to get rid of whatever they are selling.

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Exactly, it is actually a stealth private seller fee

Sellers will have to reduce prices to match the competition and will end up paying the fees, not buyers

[myriad*seller]

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@jbrusby wrote:

Some of the many initial thoughts I have about this:

- this will kill off any casual private seller who wants to use Ebay to sell off their personal collection of stamps, coins, postcards and other small low cost items, as the fees incurred will be constrictive - both the BP fees imposed by Ebay (which will be proportionately much larger on low cost items), and now being forced to use whatever expensive means of postage Ebay decides in order to be tracked - sellers won't be able to use stamps for postage for example, despite the item fitting into a flat envelope...they'll be forced to pay ££s more for Tracked 48 or equivalent

- despite Ebay claiming this won't cost business sellers a penny, it will in lost sales due to so many potential private sellers who also stop to buy things here not using Ebay any more. On top of which, some business sellers also buy stock on Ebay to resell from casual private sellers (as you would at a car boot sale) which will now be more expensive to purchase 

- the only 'new' feature of this new Buyer Protection appears to be 24/7 phone support, which isn't really a 'protection' and not really an upgrade on previously, given that they've already had a call-back support service for years available every day

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We already HAVE 24/7phone support. It is not new. You can request a callback from eBay 24/7. 

Private sellers still sold on eBay when they paid the same fees as business sellers. Existing sellers might object, but new sellers will just see it as the norm, and it is still cheaper than the old fees which private sellers accepted for YEARS. 

That's why eBay don't care if existing sellers hate the changes, new sellers are appearing every day who don't know the old rules so will just accept the new rules as they know no different.

[game_raid]

We have had several opened over the last few days, chancers basically trying to get a refund on their xmas purchases, all show delivered but these were shipped with Amazon Logistics early December not sure if that is different over RM tracking or if an eBay label was used.

[dion5feb2016]

I always use an eBay label and send by Royal Mail. Tend to send tracked 48
especially over the festive periods, have had chancers as well. Will just
send all tracked now.

[ccccchhrriis]

I am a private seller who has been selling motorcycle parts and the odd bric-a-brac i have collected over the last 40+ years for 21 years on and off here.I have mad spurts of selling loads then months of nothing so i am not a `business`.

Apart from the stealth fees i have no intention of waiting 14 days for some `numpty` to be happy with the item so i get MY monies and i use whatever courier/post i want and do not use ebay post(always tracked though).

After the postage fee tax and every other scam that eblag use i think its time i went elsewhere and i hope eblag gets its just desserts.

As i said in another post-

So Long, and Thanks for All the Fish

[palison_123]

Its just a play on words by Ebay to keep sellers happy .

We have nothing we didn`t have before and it  certainly  isn`t free.

They have probably introduce the 75 pence for private sellers because they are high maintenance.Not because it protect us business sellers. 

[myriad*seller]

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@game_raid wrote:

We have had several opened over the last few days, chancers basically trying to get a refund on their xmas purchases, all show delivered but these were shipped with Amazon Logistics early December not sure if that is different over RM tracking or if an eBay label was used.

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It is different if you use integrated tracking and buy the label from eBay

This prevents buyers opening a case once tracking shows delivered

ETA: today this seems to have changed, but I definitely could not open an INR on the item in question once it showed delivery. Today I have the "I haven't received it" option on items showing delivered, but it definitely wasn't there when I tried to open a recent case. 

Maybe this is one of the new "Seller" perks 

The "I didn't receive it" option is removed once item is delivered. Buyers can only open a case by calling CS. 

[Anonymous]

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@game_raid wrote:

No one will be paying extra? It is down to the seller to set prices, as a buyer they will never see the extra fee that is being added, they see the one price, if they are happy with it they pay or continue searching for another seller that is cheaper.

Don't forget the private seller has no fees to they can sell cheaper than a business.

As a business we have margins to work to as you do, as a private seller wanting to get rid of stuff may be happy to let things go cheap just to get rid of whatever they are selling.

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I already sell at low prices just to get rid of stuff - I have a whole heap of stuff that will now go to the charity shop, as it won't be worth the bother once this extra fee kicks in..
One thing for sure, if I'm not selling on here, I'm not going to be buying - in fact even if I do still sell some things on here, I'm not going to be buying. This is what most business sellers wanted (apologies to those few who realise it's not a good move), so they can reap the 'rewards'!

[bertiedog4]

I sell the occasional paper item to both the UK and the US. Does this mean that I will need to post everything tracked from February to make sure I receive the delayed payment?  For example it currently costs £7.90 to send an item International Tracked to the US, making it very costly for the buyer and prohibitive for the seller. It can also take 2 to 3 weeks for mail to reach the US from the UK.

[discre]

How anyone would think that the latest insanity of the new ebay Buyer Protection Racket is in any way ‘Good news for business accounts’ just utterly baffles me.

The only people who might ultimately derive some benefit from this are eBay shareholders, although even that’s dubious as it will inevitably drive yet more buyers (and therefore sellers) away from this site.

I have now been buying and selling on eBay for over twenty years.  I very rarely buy anything new on eBay any more. Firstly, because the searches have become so appalling bad it’s almost impossible to find what you want, and secondly because I just can’t be bothered to scroll through page after page of Chinese junk that I will never ever buy.  If I want new then I’ll buy direct or, more often than not these days, use Amazon.  If you’re a business seller, selling new items on eBay and trying to make a living then that’s a simple fact that you need to wake up to!

If I want secondhand items then it’s still eBay and that often means buying from private sellers where there are still some amazing bargains to be had. ‘One man’s meat…’ etc.

So, come February, eBay wants to add roughly another 4% to the prices I will have to pay private sellers - for absolutely no additional benefit whatsoever, other than to satisfy eBay’s greed. 

In twenty years I have almost never had ANY problem with a private seller that required eBay’s intervention so now telling me that I have to pay 4% for ‘protection’ from these apparently appalling sellers is just unreal.  It’s like something Al Capone could have been rightly proud of.

Like most people, after living expenses, I have a set amount of ‘free’ money available to spend each month.  That money isn’t going to suddenly, magically increase by 4%, so what happens?  Yes, of course, I am forced to buy fewer items – from fewer sellers.  So, eBay’s greed has instantly reduced my spending power. It’s not even CSE grade economics. My eight year-old grandson could have worked this out.

I have one private eBay account, that I occasionally use to sell PERSONAL items, and three business accounts.  Almost everything I sell on the business accounts is secondhand so I have to buy the items to sell from various sources.  One of these sources is eBay PRIVATE SELLERS!  So, come February some of my business costs and therefore the prices to my customers are going to increase by another 4% - disenfranchising yet more potential buyers.

Let’s move on to my private account.  I currently have a number of copies of an old magazine for sale.  They’re ones I’ve collected during my life and no longer want. They’re of no significant value and selling for just £1 or so but I’d prefer that they weren’t just pulped.  They were listed on a number of multi-item listings to offer buyers a discount and encourage them to buy a few copies.  Oh no, but I’m now not allowed to do either of these things any more unless I’m a business seller.  Why? It’s just yet more madness which will prevent me listing them at all. 

Even worse, with the ‘benefits’ of ‘buyer protection’ an item that would have previously sold for £1 will now cost the same buyer a minimum of £1.79 – A SEVENTY NINE PERCENT INCREASE!!!

If some ‘private’ sellers are actually business accounts masquerading as businesses then presumably they are competing against genuine business sellers, selling NEW items.  Simple solution. STOP ‘private’ sellers listing NEW items. It’s not rocket science, it’s incredibly simple to implement, and has already been suggested on these boards as a solution to this perceived ‘problem’.

eBay, you’ve been rapidly running out of feet to shoot yourself in for years but with this latest ludicrous proposal you seem, yet again, to have managed to load both barrels in preparation!  Just unbelievable that a company of this stature can be run SO badly.

[bravergrace]

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@bertiedog4 wrote:

I sell the occasional paper item to both the UK and the US. Does this mean that I will need to post everything tracked from February to make sure I receive the delayed payment?  

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Probably not. 

Usually, eBay try to scare sellers into thinking they won't be paid unless they send everything tracked, but if you read the small print, they actually pay out after a week or two if the buyer hasn't reported that they didn't receive their item.   I recently opened a private account, and the "information" made me think eBay was going to keep the money for untracked items.  But they didn't.  They held on to it for a couple of weeks at first, and then started paying out more quickly.

eBay would love to make it compulsory for all sellers to buy postage through eBay.  This is nothing to do with tracking; it's what they describe as a "new revenue stream".  They buy the postage from Royal Mail and the couriers, and resell it at a profit to the seller.  They will also be charging the buyer a percentage of the postage (because the "buyer protection fee" is also charged on postage).  

But if they try to make it compulsory to use eBay postage, they will lose a lot of international sales, as you say.  I sell internationally, and tracked postage often costs more than the item itself.

They will also lose a lot of their business sellers, especially for low-value goods: can you seriously imagine a big high-street company (say, a mattress seller or a shoe shop) accepting "you have to buy postage individually for each item, and send everything by an eBay-approved courier instead of using your own delivery vans"?

So any postage mandate will either be by stealth (eg withdrawing "recognition" of tracking if you didn't buy the postage through eBay), or just aimed at the smaller sellers.

[dion5feb2016]

Extremely well thought out, written response to yet another eBay shambles. How many of us knew that the ‘you can list for free now’ would end soon! Whatever they do eBay backtrack at some point.

Absolutely agree with the buying, am sick to death of having to trawl through in the hope of finding a UK seller quickly and easily. 

As for the 24/7 helpline, well if it is like it is at present there will be little to rejoice about. 

Buyer protection, oh yeah, just another tax they have added on!

[bravergrace]

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@discre wrote:

If some ‘private’ sellers are actually business accounts masquerading as businesses then presumably they are competing against genuine business sellers, selling NEW items.  Simple solution. STOP ‘private’ sellers listing NEW items. It’s not rocket science, it’s incredibly simple to implement, and has already been suggested on these boards as a solution to this perceived ‘problem’.

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I'm with you up to a point.

This is the point.

You have made a simple distinction between:

- private sellers, who sell second-hand goods

- business sellers, who sell brand-new goods.

That may seem like common sense, but if you  think about it a little bit more, what about these types of business?

- Antique dealers.

- Charity shops.

- Second-hand book shops.

- Militaria shops.

- Jewellers.

- Model railway shops.

- Car dealers.

- Vintage clothing dealers.

- Car breakers.

- Electrical refurbishers.

- Junk shops.

- Bicycle shops.

- Spare parts dealers (selling recycled computer parts, machine parts, motorbike parts, mobile phone  parts, washing machine parts, parts for old central heating systems...)

- Building reclamation shops (selling Victorian fireplaces, Georgian chimney pots, Art Deco chandeliers, 1950s light switches, used Agas...)

All of these are businesses.  Not shady businesses, but actual, real, businesses.  

It may well be that you personally wouldn't dream of buying any of these things secondhand.  That's true of many people. 

But most people, at some point in their lives, will buy quite a few things second-hand, whether it's a washing machine from Joe's electrical shop that gives a 3-month warranty, or a pram from a nearly new shop, a pile of Agatha Christies from a charity shop, an antique pocket watch, a car...

And most of those purchases are made from businesses.  I'm sure those businesses would be delighted if  they didn't need to regard themselves as businesses any more, because they're only selling second-hand junk. 

No tax, no warranties, no electrical PAT testing, no returns, no safety standards, no business rates...  

But that's not how the world works.  

[phillsvinyl]

Nutra,

I am a private seller - we can promote our listings if we want to - I did it on a couple of items  - it worked and it did not work - it cost me 53.00 in doing so - but on the upshoot I sold two items I wanted to go to a better home, after that I stopped. Would not have been able to do that unless I kept some of my sales monies back in the Ebay account.

This will see a lot of private sellers leave I feel, but it will no doubt change eventually as Ebay will be losing out on revenue, and they will think of another way to gain what they lose.

[bzmotman]

"They will also be charging the buyer a percentage of the postage (because the "buyer protection fee" is also charged on postage)."

I'm not sure this is right but as usual Ebay are incapable of explaining anything simply. In the email they state a £20 item will include the fee of £1.49 ie £18.51 plus Buyers fee but on the worked example in FAQs they show a £20 item plus fees of £1.55. However in both cases postage is then charged on top so no buyers fee on the postage.

I have checked on Germany, Australia & US sites and so far there seems to be no mention of this additional fee so selling overseas via a private account may be a bit interesting come the start date of the new fee.

I do wonder whether making the fee such a large proportion of a low value sale may be a deliberate tactic by Ebay to reduce the number of such items. After all an item selling for £1 incurs the same costs as a £100 item for them,

Completely agree with you about competing at auction against "private" sellers for stock.

Online its not just Vinted that charge a Buyers fee so I do think some buyers will already be used to the concept. Of course anyone using a physical auction will be very used to the concept.

[Anonymous]

IT IS A SCAM... WHY SHOULD I AS A BUYER HAVE A FEE IMPOSED ON ME JUST TO PURCHASE AN ITEM  THAT I CAN BUY IN A SHOP WITHOUT ANY EXTRA COST OTHER THAN THAT SHOWN ON THE TICKET.WHICH INCLUDES VAT AS THE FINAL PRICE. THAT SAME PRICE IS THE ONE THAT IS LEGALLY CHARGED AT THE TILL.

[nutrafituk]

I get your point and I did say I felt sorry for genuine private sellers. The issue here is not someone like you or promoting an item but how this feature is misused. 

A company acting as a 'private seller' can easily undercut a genuine business account, having enough margin to also promote a listing whilst still being cheaper. If a solution is to block this feature for private sellers - so be it. It should not have been a problem really but thanks to eBay messing about anything possible, that's where we are. Sadly it has not been driven by trying to improve the experience for both buyers & sellers but pure greed.

I have also a private account here, well until February I'd rather say. I have stopped buying on eBay completely now.

[bravergrace]

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@Anonymous wrote:

IT IS A SCAM... WHY SHOULD I AS A BUYER HAVE A FEE IMPOSED ON ME JUST TO PURCHASE AN ITEM  THAT I CAN BUY IN A SHOP WITHOUT ANY EXTRA COST OTHER THAN THAT SHOWN ON THE TICKET.WHICH INCLUDES VAT AS THE FINAL PRICE. THAT SAME PRICE IS THE ONE THAT IS LEGALLY CHARGED AT THE TILL.

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That's an interesting aspect of it.

I hope eBay will be including their fee in the price shown to buyers, because as you say, VAT generally has to be included in the price, and the government generally doesn't like businesses adding on extra charges for consumer transactions.

I wonder whether it would need to be shown separately as well - in the same way that insurance and mortgage commissions have to be declared to the customer (because in the end, it's the customer who's paying them)?

I wonder whether they