Business account versus Private seller account

[wortheverypennyspent]

Hiya all. I have been selling on eBay for 16 years now with the same user id and account (one of the longest), I still have 100% feedback score and I am proud of that tbh, but it has not been easy. I just wanted to ask you people if you have noticed the lack of views and bids for your listings? I have noticed terribly that views and bids have chronically dropped in the past 6-12 months. I only sell excellent condition clothing, most are like new. This is my job not a side line and I know somebody as a private seller who makes more money than me and sells more than me and ebay in their fees that they charge me also make more money than me for the majority of the time. I have done a lot of research comparing Business to Private and it appears that a Private seller does in fact make more money. I would so appreciate some feedback on this whether negative or positive to me. Thank you

[4_bathrooms]

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@mcdonalaldsman2001 wrote:

Not picking a fight as I don't doubt what you're saying but what law is this? 

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The Consumer Protection From Unfair Trading Regulations. It is a specific (criminal) offence for a trader to masquerade as a private seller.  

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

Thanks for taking the time with this and can see now where I am! Best get it sorted or stop, really had no idea, suprised eBay don't make it clearer with regular sellers. I need to look into the returns issue, I've rarely had an issue and will always be fair on the ones that have. As most of my items are pre owned presumably I can set some kind of realistic limit?!

much appreciated - hope if I decide to keep going they can just be transferred and not have to re- list. 

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

I clearly need to swap or stop!  Thanks so much for raising this, would have been oblivious otherwise!

[pg_kicks]

With regards to returns, at least on my account if somebody returns something that either doesnt have the box or is worn (I only sell new) I have deduct upto 50% I believe of the refund amount and then report them to ebay and try to get the rest of it, thankfully most go through ebay authentication so they just reject them for me, but with returns you only have 2 business days to process it and they are kinda in the favour of the buyer.

Ebay dont make an issue of it imo because they get money from you either way, theres a chance you stop selling if they tell you that you have to change to the correct account, also they can just play dumb if they were ever questioned about the thousands of incorrectly registered accounts, whereas if they had some sort of limit and didnt force it they would be liable somewhat. Its a pain for many business seller though, and majority of the private sellers who know they are registered incorrectly complain when its brought up.

[sagr2519]

I can't seem to find Ebay's policy of who has to register as a business seller. How do you draw the line on "personal stuff"?

[4_bathrooms]

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@sagr2519 wrote:

I can't seem to find Ebay's policy of who has to register as a business seller. How do you draw the line on "personal stuff"?

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Here it is:

"Do I need a business account?

If you plan to sell casually, such as selling items you no longer want, a private account is the best option.

If you want to sell large quantities, if you have items that you've made or bought to resell or if you already have a business outside of eBay, you’ll need to register a business account."

As always, poorly worded and open to misinterpretation.

The real test is whether you are declaring the proceeds of your eBay sales to HMRC or not. If you are declaring your sales to HMRC then you are a business and should be trading via a business account. If you are not declaring your eBay sales to HMRC - i.e. because you are selling your own unwanted possessions - then no, you don't need a business account.

If you should be declaring your eBay sales income to HMRC but are not you have bigger problems than what type of eBay account you should have registered. 

[myriad*seller]

From 1st January 2024 eBay will be legally required to give all sales data to HMRC, so business sellers not paying taxes and masquerading as private sellers on eBay will soon be a thing of the past

Plus it will be interesting for all the sellers that now have to declare previous years turnover and pay back taxes and penalties...

This isn't the usual "HMRC are clamping down on sellers" line they use to scare people (but never actually do anything), this is a whole new digital computer system and reporting system that eBay are legally obliged to do from now on, to send all sales details for all sellers to HMRC so they can ensure people are paying taxes on their "side hustles".

It will apply to self employed delivery drivers and people who rent out via AirBNB and similar platforms, all their income will be declared to HMRC who will want those figures to match the taxpayers tax return. 

There will be a lot of worried eBay sellers now.... who've been trading illegally for years, with the feedback history to match, and who have pretended to be "private sellers" until now... 

https://www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/bills/article-12640869/Is-taxman-coming-hustle-Airbnb-Ebay-Uber-... 

[dinnages]

Actually in my opinion there may well be many bone-fide sellers using ebay as private sellers yet ARE declared at HMRC, so it may well be that ebay has been losing out all this time.

Agree that some of those very frequent sellers with some 10,000 feedbacks as private sellers and who repeat sell the same indentical items over and over like photographs, repeat duplicates of can be seen as dealers, while I fear that this might just nobble some of those genuine private sellers who will be clearing out their own collections amassed over the years or even their mum or dads collections after they have passed away who might otherwise have sold at car boots.

Maybe HMRC ought to go after the big companies, remember many Limited companies that disapeared once they had taken all the Covid grants and loans then all that was written off.

Usual case is HMRC appear to go for the easy pickings and small business or even hobbyists out there.

Just needs to be done with a bit of care and investigation not hit everyone without a bit of consideration.

Thiose who are dealing but as private sellers ought to be pushed into a business account so its a fair playing field.

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

Wow! Interesting, as you say there will be some nervous sellers from next year then. Thanks for sharing

[pg_kicks]

They are probably just going down the easiest route, takes less staff if you use a big net to catch all then let the people be caught prove they are not a business, how they do this I'd never know but going after companies that are now either not registered or bankrupt. Plus this system, if it actually works should be around for 20+ years so long term would bring in more money. Perfect world they'd go after everyone, and eBay would just police its own site better, but that wont happen.

[sheba-knows-best]

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@myriad*seller wrote:

From 1st January 2024 eBay will be legally required to give all sales data to HMRC, so business sellers not paying taxes and masquerading as private sellers on eBay will soon be a thing of the past

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Thanks for the info!

I may be being slow... but why does this make the ebay private/business seller divide a thing of the past? So a private seller gets chased for tax by HMRC... they still get the 80% off FVF offers from ebay right? Ebay won't know who HMRC chases. Or am I missing something?

[sheba-knows-best]

@myriad*seller 

Thought I would link you... in case you had the answer.

I suppose it would reduce the amount of private sellers though (as paying tax is definitely a disincentive). 

[papso22]

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@sheba-knows-best wrote:

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@myriad*seller wrote:

From 1st January 2024 eBay will be legally required to give all sales data to HMRC, so business sellers not paying taxes and masquerading as private sellers on eBay will soon be a thing of the past

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Thanks for the info!

I may be being slow... but why does this make the ebay private/business seller divide a thing of the past? So a private seller gets chased for tax by HMRC... they still get the 80% off FVF offers from ebay right? Ebay won't know who HMRC chases. Or am I missing something?

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Precisely, while it might result in more income tax (which is what HMRC is interested in), it will do nothing to stop traders breaking consumer law and trading illegally on a private ebay account.

I have said before that we cannot know the tax position of such traders but we can clearly see they are breaking consumer law, and we know that Trading Standards are not interested.  

I doubt if HMRC will tell ebay if someone is trading (for tax purposes) as that would be breach of their duty of care, so Ebay won't have anything to prompt them into forcing an account upgrade.

So I don't expect to see much changing.

[dinnages]

I doubt if HMRC will tell ebay if someone is trading (for tax purposes) as that would be breach of their duty of care, so Ebay won't have anything to prompt them into forcing an account upgrade.

Maybe not directly however depending how the seller might get hit, expect the seller to maybe disapear for a while during the play catch up with taxes, which going back six years undeclared could be quite a hit.

[sheba-knows-best]

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@dinnages wrote:

I doubt if HMRC will tell ebay if someone is trading (for tax purposes) as that would be breach of their duty of care, so Ebay won't have anything to prompt them into forcing an account upgrade.

Maybe not directly however depending how the seller might get hit, expect the seller to maybe disapear for a while during the play catch up with taxes, which going back six years undeclared could be quite a hit.

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Hmmm..... Why would they disappear??? They will be working all the harder to payback all that tax! An explosion of private sellers no longer selling a few hunded items  but a few thousand (or rather than a few thousand, a few hundred thousand)  all at 80% off FVFs.  😎  Prod something... and something always happens, but not usually what you expect. Hopefully whatever happens, it will make ebay do something.

[ett1954]

"I doubt if HMRC will tell ebay if someone is trading (for tax purposes) as that would be breach of their duty of care, so Ebay won't have anything to prompt them into forcing an account upgrade."

If HMRC prosecuted someone for tax evasion then that would become a public record, therefore there would be no breach of duty of care.

If, as has previously been mentioned, that sales platforms (depending on the circumstances) could be held jointly liable, as they are with VAT registration, then this in itself could 'prompt' eBay, or any other sales platform, to increase their scrutiny of members' registration levels.

The one thing that will increase any sales platform to increase their due diligence is the potential for it to hit their pocket.

At the end of the day it remains to be seen how this will pan out after its introduction.  It may well trun out to be a damp squib like previous HMRC initiatives, or, it may be a game changer as has been seen in some other countries.

[nigel_paul_wright7557]

Ebay is a victim of its own making.

1/ Loads of Chinese listings selling poor quality goods with long delivery times.

2/ Multi listings all starting at 99p.

3/ Multi listings with hundreds of same listing clogging up results.

4/ Lowest price search omitting lots of relevant cheaper items making ebay look expensive. Also some sellers listings are not being displayed because of this.

5/ Bad buying experiences of selling on ebay.

Once the buyers get upset and leave it is nigh on impossible to get them back.

[sellwinflogit]

Two Ebay accounts, one business, one personal.

[bzmotman]

"I would still occasionally like to sell the odd few domestic non business items as a private seller, although never quite worked out how that can be done."

Nothing stopping you having a second private account to do just that though Ebay will aggregate all sales from all accounts when reporting to HMRC.

[arfurdaleymeetsdelboy]

Hi 

I wrote a review about this a few weeks ago, eBay are forcing sellers to pay for promotion sales.

What annoys me is why is this not already in use? eBay is a selling platform, but by eBay admitting that they are not selling to the best of their capabilities they are failing every person selling and buying on eBay. This is proven by every time you list a item you are offered a promoted listing, ie, I listed two wallets for £5.00 i was offered for £1.49 to promote it. EBAY by offering promoted listing are readily admitting to every person selling that they are not promoting your items to the best of their ability. It is very plain to see, they have a contract to promote your items to sell, not to let other people (who pay for promoted) get special treatment. It is supposed to be a fair enviroment but it is not it is run by greedy people, who wants to drain every last penny from its members. Why is it that eBay can promote items that they admit gets a very high percentage of more views. I find this insulting as why is this not already done.

My views has dropped dramatically as has my selling, maybe because of eBay and their promoted listing.

Thanks Stan Simons