Business account versus Private seller account

[wortheverypennyspent]

Hiya all. I have been selling on eBay for 16 years now with the same user id and account (one of the longest), I still have 100% feedback score and I am proud of that tbh, but it has not been easy. I just wanted to ask you people if you have noticed the lack of views and bids for your listings? I have noticed terribly that views and bids have chronically dropped in the past 6-12 months. I only sell excellent condition clothing, most are like new. This is my job not a side line and I know somebody as a private seller who makes more money than me and sells more than me and ebay in their fees that they charge me also make more money than me for the majority of the time. I have done a lot of research comparing Business to Private and it appears that a Private seller does in fact make more money. I would so appreciate some feedback on this whether negative or positive to me. Thank you

[4_bathrooms]

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@pg_kicks wrote:

Its time eBay started acting on the 'private' business sellers like they did with the incorrect VAT info, even though they told us that it was all ok.

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The people responsible for policing trading laws are Trading Standards who don't have the funding to do it properly and usually don't care unless something is reported to them by a consumer.

The people responsible for policing VAT compliance are HMRC who have a £45M supercomputer to do most of the work for them and who hold online marketplaces jointly and severally liable for ensuring their sellers meet their VAT obligations.

[pg_kicks]

Surely eBay are partially responsible for users to be using the correct account though? If somebody was reported for incorrectly using a private account it should be looked into and stopped, the same goes with selling fake items, neither are ever stopped, again its us business sellers who look the fools paying and receiving a lot less.

[papso22]

I think eBay should be considerably more active in this than they are.  And given that they lose out on fees I am surprised they are not.  I have seen 'private' accounts with over 10,000 listings, and even though the seller was paying some listing fees, eBay would still be losing out.

[4_bathrooms]

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@pg_kicks wrote:

Surely eBay are partially responsible for users to be using the correct account though? 

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You'll find the following eBay disclaimer on every listing: "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing." That is eBay's way of washing their hands of any responsibility they can.

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@pg_kicks wrote:

If somebody was reported for incorrectly using a private account it should be looked into and stopped

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It depends who is reporting the listing. eBay aren't going to listen to another eBay member; especially if that member sells less than the member they are reporting. If Trading Standards notified eBay the account should be registered as a business account and they will be holding eBay jointly liable for any future illegal trading activity conducted via the account then the account would be restricted or "upgraded" to a business account pretty quickly.

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@pg_kicks wrote:

the same goes with selling fake items, neither are ever stopped, again its us business sellers who look the fools paying and receiving a lot less.

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Again, it depends who is reporting the seller. If multiple buyers open INAD claims for "Doesn't seem authentic" against a seller's items then eBay will certainly take action. If a manufacturer, brand owner, copyright holder etc. files a VeRO claim against a seller's listings they will also be taken down. eBay aren't going to take a seller's listings down just because they are being reported by one or more rival sellers who might be making valid complaints or who might just be making spurious claims against one of their competitors.  
   

[potters_uk]

@pg_kicks wrote:

Surely eBay are partially responsible for users to be using the correct account though? 

You'll find the following eBay disclaimer on every listing: "Seller assumes all responsibility for this listing." That is eBay's way of washing their hands of any responsibility they can.

That is until you have a dispute and then they remove that resposibility and take over your business for the duration. They can't even adhere to their own disclaimers.

[4_bathrooms]

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@papso22 wrote:

I think eBay should be considerably more active in this than they are.  And given that they lose out on fees I am surprised they are not.  I have seen 'private' accounts with over 10,000 listings, and even though the seller was paying some listing fees, eBay would still be losing out.

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If such a seller was averaging around £230 in sales every day they would hit the VAT threshold within 12 months and eBay would definitely force an upgrade to a business account and require the provision of a VAT number. This is one area where eBay definitely wouldn't drag their feet.

However, if such a seller wasn't averaging around £230 in sales every day the headache of having a business account with 10,000 active listings and business rate selling fees just wouldn't be worth bothering with. I'm pretty sure eBay realise that receiving listing and selling fees on something is better than receiving them on nothing.       

[dinnages]

An interesting topic that over my 22+ years trading on ebay, in general 35 years as a dealer, and my own online site since 1999, all my sales are as a business with HMRC and have a business ebay account.

There are many 'dealers' that obviously sell much more than I have here, noted by the feedback and how many listings they have running at any one time, (I dont have that much spare time available), and see them at the post office queues too sending out stacks of items still using 'private seller' accounts, some pleased with themselves by boasting.

I am happy what I sell as a business, however I would still occasionally like to sell the odd few domestic non business items as a private seller, although never quite worked out how that can be done.

I could be selling used items like some tools I no longer need, or anything I have I no longer need yet isnt something I bought as a dealer. Why should I sell an item as a business when its purely personal, and have to comply with the guaranteed returns process. Besides if the funds come in as a business sale then that confuses the income from ebay as taxable when it shouldnt. A private seller should be able to see as it would be at a car boot, obviously perfectly described, a private sale and not taxable proceeds.

I am now finding there are more private buyers actually trading and buying my items, then resold on, but I do take umbridge to them not having sold it, then sending back to me as a business seller knowing they can go for a full refund!!

[cobwebcottage]

Hello @dinnages 

'I am happy what I sell as a business, however I would still occasionally like to sell the odd few domestic non business items as a private seller, although never quite worked out how that can be done'.

I have both a business account and a private account  for selling unwanted household items, clothes etc. It is easy to set up a private account to sell your own personal items. I have a separate e mail, user name and funds go in to my personal bank account rather than my business. I even get offered FVF promotions which is a bonus even though I dont sell a lot on the private A/C but every little helps, to use a cliche.

[dinnages]

Never tried to be honest, separate everything I assume, but same address.

[papso22]

As said, you can have a private account for personal items and a separate business account for the trading sales.  That way you don't have to extract the private sales for HMRC's benefit. 

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

Was just researching tbe diffetence and your thread popped up. Thanks for raising the issue. I've recently started selling seriously, hence the thoughts of changing, but your subsequent replies make me think I'm better off sticking as I am!

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

WhT do you mean by 'better policies' please?  Looking at both options and looks from replies like it's better financially to stay private

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

Could you explain more about the legalities please?  Looking at pros and cons of both

[1956glyn]

The bottom line is.....if you are buying to sell then by law you should be registered as a Business Seller.

The account you are posting on is indeed incorrectly registered.

A business seller cannot just stay as a private seller because its maybe cheaper  or more convenient for them 😞

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

Thanks for that and can see where you're coming from. Not picking a fight as I don't doubt what you're saying but what law is this? Just so that I understand the implication?  I'm not really sure what direction I'm going to go in so hassle factor is relevant!  Appreciate your time in responding. 

[1956glyn]

Hi

Not allowed to post outside links on these boards.

Check out HMRC website and other search engines for all the info you require.

If you think about it....if everyone had a personal choice as to whether they are a business or private seller i am sure no one would register on Ebay as a business seller where they do not get all the benefits of a private seller etc etc etc  

[mcdonalaldsman2001]

Thanks again, did some Googling after your reply and can see exactly where you're coming from. Much appreciated, decision time whether I pack this in or push forward and bite the bullet!!

Have a great weekend 

[1956glyn]

No problem and you are welcome

[papso22]

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@mcdonalaldsman2001 wrote:

Thanks for that and can see where you're coming from. Not picking a fight as I don't doubt what you're saying but what law is this? Just so that I understand the implication?  I'm not really sure what direction I'm going to go in so hassle factor is relevant!  Appreciate your time in responding. 

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Incorectly registered business sellers may be declaring tax to HMRc so not breaking tax law, but they are definitely breaking consumer law as well as the law that forbids you to represent yourself as a private individual when you are really a trader.

Consumer law requires you to provide buyers with certain information before they buy and that can only be done with an ebay business account.

[pg_kicks]

The pro's and con's are a bit pointless in the case of trying to decide if you want to change or not, by law you are required to be a business, theres no real pro's on eBay to being a business over a private account, if I'm lucky I get 2 promos a year (I have to part fund these) and I have recently started a pro trader course which I doubt I'd have been offered if I wasnt a business. eBay currently dont care though, they still get money if you are a business or a private account.

Having a quick look at your items I can see you dont offer returns, as a business, registered or not you should offer these by law, others have mentioned on the forum that if a buyer wanted to as you are incorrectly registered they could return upto 12 months from purchase due to this, not sure if thats totally true but without the option a returns the chances they say the item is damaged (damage it themselves) or just claim its not as described and you are forced to pay for the return.

Another issue for incorrectly registered is prior to any online sales a customer should be able to see a business address and a direct contact, with a private account these are not possible as it breaks eBays t&c's to have them on the listing, as a business account its under a different spot.

Like you probably already know though, looking at it just as an economic way its totally pointless as you might get the 70/80% off every 2 weeks and other offers from eBay and the chances of eBay doing anything like closing down your account are so slim you might see it as a risk worth taking. Once/if you get over the VAT limit though I'd guess its impossible.

HMRC/Government websites will have all the legal terms and laws or another user might but thats a very basic run down. Good luck either way you go though but hopefully its a legal way and you carry on building a business.