What's your answer to this?

[cee-dee]

https://uk.news.yahoo.com/calais-migrants-face-catastrophe-153936990.html#3RP7sMo

The situation can't go on?

Not only can the stowaway situation there not continue, the constant flow of people trying to get to Europe and/or Britain cannot continue either.

Those people should be told that there's nothing for them except a life in a refugee camp. They can't become a "normal" member of society in their target country because they can't speak the language and those that get here (legally or illegally) don't seem to want to bother to learn either. They can't do anything useful except work that's already over subscribed so their only work is going to be an exploited modern form of slavery.

They're looking for a short-cut to a way of life that's taken a couple of thousand years to achieve and they're many centuries behind.

It's high time they were "educated" about the facts of illegal immigration and shown what has happened to many who went before them and all efforts should be made to dissuade and/or prevent them starting out in the first place rather than dealing with them en route or at their destination.

[fallen-archie]

I won't disect your predictable response which once again defends your right to be the godfather of righteousness. But I wonder if you read the story last week of the Elderly gent in Scotland who left Hospital three years ago, returned to his Flat in Leith and was not seen again until the police broke in to find his decomposed body. 3 Years with loads of neighbours and no language problem.

I wonder also if you watched the Sunday Politics? opinions on there certainly did not concur with the views you so rigidly defend.

Goes away and awaits patronising response.

[bookhunter2007]

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@cee-dee wrote:

Well it seems the much vaunted assylum seeker is so pleased and grateful for life here that :-  "In the future I'm planning to open a film school and a digital media training centre in Togo (West Africa) where I'm from."

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Great. Creates opportunity for others in Togo, helps local economy. Reduces chances of poverty. Gives hope to local kids. A small step in preventing Togo from sliding back into a poverty-stricken warzone.

More productive than being an ignorant whinger who blames "forrins" for their own shortcomings eh?

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@fallen-archie wrote:

I won't disect your predictable response which once again defends your right to be the godfather of righteousness. But I wonder if you read the story last week of the Elderly gent in Scotland who left Hospital three years ago, returned to his Flat in Leith and was not seen again until the police broke in to find his decomposed body. 3 Years with loads of neighbours and no language problem.

I wonder also if you watched the Sunday Politics? opinions on there certainly did not concur with the views you so rigidly defend.

Goes away and awaits patronising response.

---

It's not as if my input is needed here to highlight when one has lost the debate and decides to throw teddies out the pram instead.

[fallen-archie]

No Teddies here but thankfully you retain your spirit for goading and patronising. The only losers in a debate like this are those who fail to open their eyes. We cannot influence anyone to do something but it would be nice if for once we could at least find some common ground. and if you would cease your endless campaign of intimidation towars anyone who does not fit the perfect life template you apply to everyone.

[mariola.c]

Hello everyone,

Please remember to be courteous and kind to others and to stick with our Community Values and Policies.

Thank you.

Mariola
Community Moderator

[bookhunter2007]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

No Teddies here but thankfully you retain your spirit for goading and patronising. The only losers in a debate like this are those who fail to open their eyes. We cannot influence anyone to do something but it would be nice if for once we could at least find some common ground. and if you would cease your endless campaign of intimidation towars anyone who does not fit the perfect life template you apply to everyone.

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@How exactly is my reply to your post @ #166 "goading"?

@If anyone is "goading" it's the likes of you @  #169 and Astro by randomly libelling named individuals and their business.

It seems you have some sort of warped obsession with me. It's not my fault your knee-jerk response to my posts is to "side" with those I argue against.  Bearing in mind those I robustly argue against tend to display racist tendencies based on ignorance, I'm afraid "common ground" is unlikely to be found.

I'm not going to turn into Oswald Mosley just to appease the Round Table Defence League.

Perhaps if you could produce evidence for your arguments instead of basing your views on hearsay, prejudice, and what you saw on telly, your points may have a bit more credibility?

It may also help if you kept on topic instead of trying to get the thread locked due to "personal disputes".

[fallen-archie]

On reflection I probably did rise a bit to the comments of a poster. It is an emotive topic and one which is best discussed in an adult way. For the sake of the thread I will readily withdraw from further comment.

[astrologica]

Bookhunter....this is not the Round TableDefenceLeague, and no-one wants you to change your personal views. You are entitled to them......but so are we. Having read through my posts I do have a modicum of regret that I used your friend Mathias to have a go at you. I maybe should not have done that, but having been labelled a racist by you in the past, and on this thread been referred to as a 'ranter', a 'bigot', a 'whinger', and a member of the 'angry mob' , I'm afraid I did lose composure and 'shoot from the hip'. All of these labels because I have different views to you and because I worry about the effect that immigration is having on my country. And I am not alone.
I do realise that I made a mistake in referring to your friend as an 'illegal', when I should have said 'asylum seeker'. But I would like to ask one question. In your post No 85, you state that asylum seekers are not allowed to work legally. So .....and I am not goading here.....how is it that Mathias has been a Company Director. Also ..if he has been granted asylum...why is he being sent home to Togo. I understand if you do not want to answer these questions...he is obviously a friend. But I am genuinely interested after reading the article in the Ipswich newspaper, which doesn't explain much. I realise that like all asylum seekers, he does have a story, and it is quite hurtful to be called a racist, bigot, whinger etc, when I know that I am not.
So there you have it..an expression of regret for using your friend to get at you. Just to show that I can be fair. And I have my teddies back now.

[bookhunter2007]

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@astrologica wrote:
how is it that Mathias has been a Company Director. Also ..if he has been granted asylum...why is he being sent home to Togo. I understand if you do not want to answer these questions...he is obviously a friend. But I am genuinely interested after reading the article in the Ipswich newspaper, which doesn't explain much. I realise that like all asylum seekers, he does have a story, and it is quite hurtful to be called a racist, bigot, whinger etc, when I know that I am not.
So there you have it..an expression of regret for using your friend to get at you. Just to show that I can be fair. And I have my teddies back now.

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Fair play for acknowledging for your error, and give my regards to teddy.

Mathias sought asylum in UK as he thought it was his best chance of Asylum considering his good command of English. It was either here or the US - at that time Dubya was in the Whitehouse, and thought the UK offered a better "hope".

He was due to be deported in 2008, but won a last minute reprieve due to a public campaign by locals and the intervention of MP Chris Mole. afaik he was granted UK Citizenship in 2009 due to the authorities being impressed with his "good character" and work with young people in deprived areas - If anything he helps people get off benefits and into work. I find it exasperating a couple on this thread finds this something to condemn or criticise, and can't help but think this is motivated simply through prejudice.

As far as accusations of racism are concerned, I'm afraid your (and others) posts do come across that way at times. It may not be your intention, but when I see untruths, exaggerations, and myths repeated again and again when proved false, I can't think of any other reason but to demonise people of a particular race, nationality or religion.  Also, afaik your area is not home to many immigrants, thus I can't help but think your views are formed mainly from media stereotypes and sensationalism. However, saying that I also appreciate sections of older generation find the cultural change facilitated by globalisation difficult to understand and relate to.

I often see accusation towards Muslims and foreign nationals that they "don't integrate" - ask yourself this - if you were a Muslim or foreign national would you feel "at home" posting on RT? If anything, the hostility towards Muslims as a mass homogenous group plays right into the hands of twisted headbangers like ISIS.

Integration is a two-way street imo, and whilst unacceptable cultural practices should be challenged, so should demonisation. No one wins by creating suspicion between communities. It's notable that many former manufacturing-based Northern Towns and places like Luton have issues with divided communities, whereas multicultural places that have Unis (e.g Cambridge/London) and the potential for prosperity have far better integration

I admit my posts are rather combative, sardonic and facetious at times, but in my defence I don't think they are any more hostile or goading than several others on this board - esp when i'm addressed directly. If i'm posting informally i'm "rude" - if i'm posting with a "sensible head" on i'm a "smug know it all linkaholic ". I can't win either way.

[astrologica]

Thank you for your reply. That still doesn't explain why he is being deported now. If he had been granted citizenship, then surely that would be impossible. Could it be that he wasn't actually granted citizenship, and was working as a Company Director when that would not be allowed? There are a lot of unanswered questions there.
As you know I do live in South Wales, and indeed, the small town where I live doesn't have many immigrants....yet. Newport, which is just a few miles down the valley hs a fairly high proportion, and the town bears no resemblance now to how it used to be. It is not a pleasure to go there now, and I do not go there unless I have to visit the hospital. The valleys are some of the poorest areas in the UK, and need regeneration, and we do not need more and more newcomers, with the intensive home building and loss off green space that that would involve. My concerns are for what will happen years down the line. Recent and present governments are just reacting to events, without any thought for future problems and events. I think most posters on here are concerned, not from prejudice, but from legitimate concern for our country. As the last Labour government admitted...Multiculturalism was a big mistake...and it's not working.
I think I have mentioned before in aI reply to you, that my opinions are formed by what I see with my own eyes, and not from newspapers. I would add that yes, We do have one of those newspapers that you despise in our home,but I do not read it. My OH likes that particular paper because of the crossword. He suffers with memory loss and has been advised to do a daily crossword. So all is not as you sometimes assume..indeed,some people are not as you assume.
Sometimes you refer to senior citizens with such contempt, assuming again that they are illiterate and ignorant. If you are very fortunate, you will be a senior citizens one day. Next time you meet one,talk to them...you might be surprised to find that they still have a mind as sharp as ever and a lot of wisdom to impart.
On with the thread.....

[suzieseaside]

Cameron seems to be forever ‘considering’ doing something about Calais. The French say Britain is not doing enough. Cameron said the UK would provide more security assistance if necessary.

IF necessary? Last week should make it clear to him that it IS necessary if he wants to stop more people crossing the channel, so there is no reason for him to delay. It’s not as if the camps in Calais have sprung up overnight, they have been there for many years and I would have thought that any smart people in Government might have seen this crisis coming for some time, so I suppose they chose to ignore it?

So what can he do to reduce the illegal immigrant ‘problem’?

Send in the army, erect electrified fences, more UK police and sniffer dogs for a start? And install more security in Dover? Send migrants home (provided they will not have to face death or torture, so hardly a solution for Eritreans, for example, or acceptable to the UN)?

Send in the Navy from various EU countries that have one to stop the traffickers and boats leaving North Africa?

For EU migrants - Deter businesses in the UK from employing migrants because they are cheaper, and force them to pay a living wage to British citizens? But then what about the skills shortage here? Apparently we have the worst shortage for 30 years and need a migrant workforce.  There are dozens of websites describing the problem, but here’s just a short article: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-30224320

So we have to tackle education, provide more practical and vocational training and apprenticeships. Something I’m sure many people have realised for a very long time but clearly nothing effective has been done in the past to prevent the current skills gap and it’s going to take a long time to improve things.

One other thought - If people think that there would be no problem with dealing with illegal immigrants if we pulled out of the EU, who on the other side of the Channel is going to help stop immigrants leaving their soil for here, and why should they care given that border control will revert to the British side?

[joamur_gosof]

I think the UK as a whole can house 150 million people comfortably if ''Managed properly'' thats the main and only problem with this country...that is to answer fallens amount..............I am 100 percent right as well.

Ok after that then we will need more land. (Well ;the world' ..thats a big/little  ball folk as we know em of the entire universe among others live on has plenty of that spare (also machinery science and man can actually make more and the world pops up bits of extra now and again also) You may use or make living ability and call it UK if you must and house well in excess of 25 billion folk on it ......all you need is love 🙂 all you don't need is asset management.(the latter just causes big a bad a boom.

No links no facts and no care to mail any ,just mull away as you please.

oh I am always right by the way ,did I mention that.

Now I must never post here again as I am always right and I said I wouldn't  post so now I am wrong and this place confuses me .

As a real fairwell to all 10 posters ,who I think are all pretty cool in expressing your views (govs and media should take notes)  Your all right in part and all wrong in others.Enjoy the sun 🙂

[bookhunter2007]

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@astrologica wrote:
That still doesn't explain why he is being deported now. If he had been granted citizenship, then surely that would be impossible. Could it be that he wasn't actually granted citizenship, and was working as a Company Director when that would not be allowed? There are a lot of unanswered questions there.

---

He's not being deported "now". The only time he was in danger of being deported was back in 2008.  If he was here illegally it would be pretty stupid of him to have a linkedin profile, company details under his real name, and doing interviews about his background.  If you're looking for some mud to stick, I'm afraid you're not going to have much luck.

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@astrologica wrote:
As you know I do live in South Wales, and indeed, the small town where I live doesn't have many immigrants....yet. Newport, which is just a few miles down the valley hs a fairly high proportion, and the town bears no resemblance now to how it used to be. It is not a pleasure to go there now, and I do not go there unless I have to visit the hospital. The valleys are some of the poorest areas in the UK, and need regeneration, and we do not need more and more newcomers, with the intensive home building and loss off green space that that would involve. My concerns are for what will happen years down the line. Recent and present governments are just reacting to events, without any thought for future problems and events. I think most posters on here are concerned, not from prejudice, but from legitimate concern for our country. As the last Labour government admitted...Multiculturalism was a big mistake...and it's not working.

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You make Newport sound like the Swat Valley! Ethnic demographics are 88% White British. That's hardly a "fairly high proportion". Where I live it's 82% White British. Somehow, whenever my parents visit, they manage to do so without having a panic attack. And Multiculturalism only doesn't work if you don't want it to. Politicians usually trot lines like that out when their poll ratings suck. Many people have different "concerns"; Why is it that older right wingers are more "concerned" about immigration than younger people? After all, it's younger people who will be affected more in the future. I've often noticed older right wing types often hide their "concerns" about immigration behind their "children and grandchildren". This skates very close to "14 words" rhetoric imo.

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@astrologica wrote:
I think I have mentioned before in aI reply to you, that my opinions are formed by what I see with my own eyes, and not from newspapers. I would add that yes, We do have one of those newspapers that you despise in our home,but I do not read it. My OH likes that particular paper because of the crossword. He suffers with memory loss and has been advised to do a daily crossword. So all is not as you sometimes assume..indeed,some people are not as you assume.

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You don't need to read the Daily Express (how'd I know that 😉 to be affected by it's Agenda Setting. Every other front page is a random sensationalist rant about immigration, the EU, or how Kim Jong Farage is the country's saviour. The ironic thing is Dirty Des is very much part of "the establishment", yet sets an agenda to scapegoat those who really don't make much difference in the big scheme of things.  Ask yourself this, who caused the banking crisis and austerity? It certainly wasn't Muslims, Chinese cockle pickers, Eastern European veg packers, or Asian nurses.

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@astrologica wrote:
Sometimes you refer to senior citizens with such contempt, assuming again that they are illiterate and ignorant.

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Yes I do on occassions - but only on here. In accordance to eBay's community values ("We encourage you to treat others the way you want to be treated.") I can only 'assume' a section on here wish to be treated in a matter they wish to treat migrants and Muslims. i.e With contempt.

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@astrologica wrote:
If you are very fortunate, you will be a senior citizens one day. Next time you meet one,talk to them...you might be surprised to find that they still have a mind as sharp as ever and a lot of wisdom to impart.

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I do talk to them - regularly - it's part of my job. I find the one's with the sharper minds and wisdom are those who remember what can happen when a climate of fear, xenophobia and racism is created.  On the other hand, I find the "boomer" type right wingers the most miserable and selfish, yet over-privileged demographic going.

It was only the other day this 90 something year old chap from the East End was talking about Farage - "He reminds me of Mosley" were his words. I think he had a point... 

http://archive.museumoflondon.org.uk/RWWC/objects/record.htm?type=object&id=743656

[bookhunter2007]

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@suzieseaside wrote:

Cameron seems to be forever ‘considering’ doing something about Calais. The French say Britain is not doing enough. Cameron said the UK would provide more security assistance if necessary.

IF necessary? Last week should make it clear to him that it IS necessary if he wants to stop more people crossing the channel, so there is no reason for him to delay. It’s not as if the camps in Calais have sprung up overnight, they have been there for many years and I would have thought that any smart people in Government might have seen this crisis coming for some time, so I suppose they chose to ignore it?

---

Oddly enough, the number of Asylum applicants and rejections hit its peak in the early 2000s. The numbers fleeing Iraq & Afghan Wars were far greater than it is now.

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@suzieseaside wrote:

One other thought - If people think that there would be no problem with dealing with illegal immigrants if we pulled out of the EU, who on the other side of the Channel is going to help stop immigrants leaving their soil for here, and why should they care given that border control will revert to the British side?

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That's a good point. It's not as if leaving the EU turns the English Channel into a sea of boiling lava that no-one dare cross either. It was only after border control was moved to the French side in 2002 that asylum applications fell dramatically. Losing that privilege would see applicants surge again.  It's not as if there is a literal "open border" policy between France and Italy either

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-33131893

Apparently EU leaders are planning an "Australian-style" response

http://www.newstatesman.com/world-affairs/2015/06/shameful-consequences-europe-contemplates-australi...

If this is anything to go by, it seems an effective quick fix, but morally indefensible and counter-productive in the long run if true imo

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/australiaandthepacific/australia/11670003/Australian-PM-ac...

[malacandran]

We can argue about all this as long as we want.

But it won't make any difference.

African immigrants will keep coming in. 

[ravendays]

The only people that need educating are our "wonderful" government who simply need to limit immigration or revert to the workable system in place a mere 15 years ago or so.  The voters and the government they put in power are directly to blame not the poor sap who just wants to enjoy the UK's gravy train.

[malacandran]

It didn't make any difference which "government" the "voters" put in "power".

The immigrants would still be coming in.

Heck, it's like so obvious.  

[astrologica]

Yes.......it's all part of the plan.

[malacandran]

Of course. The plan relies on most people being unable to perceive what's going on.

Seems that's working, so far.

[joamur_gosof]

 there are 65 Germanic wars going on ...........there are no facts or statistics to prove this.......its all a balance and an act, 66 wars would mean the end of the world as you know it ...or as 'they know it...they read as well 🙂 

66 billion people means to those who rule a change in world leadership....so balance is needed to keep the saxe  in the driving seat.

Under no compromise rules the amount of human dead pales into insignificance to the amount of unruly if allowed to continue doctoral ...so it is doctored to stay at 65 billion.

Now the question arises ,'what should be done when 12 million or so would like safe haven in saxe territory.......the Saxe as a rule are generous peeps who like to accommodate ....then T hatcher and T liar spent 35 years stealing from Saxe and Saxe has had enough...couple that with interning media mind numbing facts and statistics that state ''NOBODY IS SAFE'' and we are talking about panic stations from near and afar.

Sooo soloution to it all is easy peasy hohohho  ..what shall we do ..panic panic ...well stop thinking on a small scale and start thinking on a large, we are all one scale...this leads to embellishment of souls who are bigger than life ...then we can truly say ...shove your statistics where the sun dont shine we only got 20 quid between us''...god bless America 🙂

Alternatively keep thinking you got more than next guy and your actually better than him......bring on the 66 ,mr BH which bit is a parody ??