So What's The Problem With Landfill or Plastics?!

[lambsy_uk]

So I see outside a sign for a waste disposal company espousing the virtue of taking nothing to landfill; so my question is what's the big deal about land-fill, what's the fuss about filling up some holes with waste? What's the problem.

Also, I hear people moaning about plastics because they take a long time to bio-degrade; "takes 400 years for such-n-such to bio-degrade" I hear them say; so my second question is So What? What's the problem if something doesn't biodegrade, what's all the fuss about?

Why is it such a big deal if with live on a planet with a smattering of holes full of plastic?

[cee-dee]

I suppose the big deal really is that if it was all chucked in such a hole, that'd be OK but unfortunately the stuff gets chucked everywhere else as well?

When I was a kid (!) just up the road from the village was a place we called "The Sandhole". Yep, it'd been used for quarrying sand. As such quarries go, it was a very small place but it was right alongside the road (between our village and the next). One end of it (the "deep" end) was lined with trees and a rope was hung from one tree and we (stupidly) used to swing out over the chasm (well it looked like it to us).

We also used to (even more stupidly) dig in to the banks and one such hole went partly under the road and caused a depression at the side of the road!!!

The District Council was using it as a tip (along with everyone else) and the bin lorries dumped their loads in it. When we moved from that village the dump still hadn't reached the "deep" end.

Now, when I drove past there a few years back, it seemed the sandhole had been all filled in, the trees at the end were gone and what had all been fenced off was then open to the field BUT..... it wasn't level with the field, there was a depression there. The dump had obviously settled somewhat. Also, the depression at the side of the road was still evident.

Now, getting back to filling holes with plastic..... If it eventually degraded, it'd settle and cause a depression? OK, so these dumps are often left as a raised area to account for settling but what is the area supposed to be used for?

Looking out East from the hill where I live now is an old landfill site about a mile away and that was left as a raised area. Over twenty years or so it's settled a bit but not in an "even" manner. It's pretty marshy in parts and a small pool's formed.

Part of that area was used for sand and gravel extraction and I don't think the dumped area is very stable so perhaps any dumping of plastic waste needs dumping in "the right sort of hole"?

[fallen-archie]

If people acted responsibly got off their backsides and recycled responsibly we wouldn’t have the problems we now do, I think folk are becoming more and more idle and prefer to chuck things out of their car window than take it home to recycle. It is a national disgrace that so many abuse our countryside and seaside in the way we do!

[upthecreekyetagain]

On any other board the opening post would never work - all the OP would get is lots of pics of a guy fishing 🙂

[lambsy_uk]

Yes litter and pollution are a disgrace and of course we don't want plastic waste clogging up oceans or waterways. Recycling is ideal, lets not waste resources etc., but that does not answer what the problem is with landfill; or is it that landfill just isn't recycling? Personally I like Waste-To-Energy plants; turning waste into electricity. As for people showing off their fishing poles I'd hope this were a place where intelligent people could give reasoned debate and answers.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Reasoned debate? 

A reasoned debate on a Trumpesque question?

Might just as we’ll argue the Earth is flat.

[jd.linklater]

I can't believe this post isn't a wind up.

[bankhaunter]

Landfill is expensive.

Plastics break down into small pieces, birds and fish think it is food and it kills them.

[theelench]

Doesn't Methane gas come into the equation somehow?

[lambsy_uk]

---

@bankhaunter wrote:

Landfill is expensive.

Plastics break down into small pieces, birds and fish think it is food and it kills them.

---

OK great, thanks for a constructive response. So the cost sounds like a reasonable argument and of course we don't, we don't want fish ingesting plastics, but then there's not many fish in landfill sites, not live ones anyway. Could be a problem for birds though as I'm sure many see landfill as easy pickings for food. If we kept birds away would that be a solution?

[lambsy_uk]

---

@theelench wrote:
Doesn't Methane gas come into the equation somehow?

---

Yes I believe you are right. I saw a programme on TV a while ago where they showed the methane realeased from landfill being captured and used to generate power; a different type of waste-to-energy. (Burning is more usual) So perhaps a reasonable solution, what you reckon?

[lambsy_uk]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Reasoned debate? 

A reasoned debate on a Trumpesque question?

Might just as we’ll argue the Earth is flat.

---

Well perhaps I was being naive to expect a decent discusion from some! I'm actually looking for answers, I want to know what the end game is when we talk about not sending stuff to landfill. It could be simply that the less we send to landfill equals the more that gets recycled and re-used; I was just wondering if landfill itself was a problem.

It's more to do with the idea that plastics take so long to bio-degrade, what are the concerns with a hole full of plastic. If you say it's wasted resources and it should be recycled I'm all for it, but people slant the argument saying that taking many years to break down is a problem, so what specifically is that problem, what could be the detremental effects?

[lambsy_uk]

---

@jd.linklater wrote:

I can't believe this post isn't a wind up.

---

Got anything constructive or informative to add?

[fallen-archie]

In a way you are right, landfill sites will be a rich source of pickings for archaeologists in the future and as has been stated can be used to generate methane gas to power vehicles or to provide heat. I think it is best to divide up those plastics which can be put in landfill and those that should not, for example those damned things that hold a four pack of beer together are a menace to wildlife and birds in particular, sureley an alternative solution is available, Anything which can harm wildlife should not be placed in landfill, as for an old fairy liquid bottle or domestos container well the trace elements left will pollute so perhaps they should be avoided too, so by the time we recycle our other plastic there shouldn’t be much left to dump underground should there?

[lambsy_uk]

Yep, certainly keep the amount of plastics in landfill to a minimum but whereas you've raised some good points; threat to wildlife and contamination, some still trot out the line that certain items take many years to break down. I even remember a news item a while ago showing concern because newspapers were found to be no degrading as may have been expected. So the question is why is biodegradation so important? Does it really matter if it doesn't degrade?

[023mjc]

It will matter in years to come, when ther'es no room for any more holes. We are spoiling this beautiful world and future generations will suffer, including our own descendants.

What annoys me most is the sheer AMOUNT of plastic that is just not necessary.  We buy finish dishwasher powder in big yellow plastic containers. I noticed the other day ( when the sunlight was shining on it) that it was half empty.

I weighed it, and it did weigh correctly - 1 kilo - but why all the empty space.  Are they trying to make us think we are getting more product than we actually are.  That container could easily be half the size- which would also make it easier to carry home, and store. This is not the only product using this trick.

Plastic wrapping on everything - even a cucumber is tightly encased in plastic - which I find particularly irritating when trying to remove it.   I just dont see why so much plastic is necessary.  What's wrong with a good old paper bag.  There was little point in cracking down on plastic carrier bags, when every single item you put in them is wrapped in plastic. 

Our newspapers, and all paper and cardboard waste goes in the compost bin,( along with veg peelings etc) and theres no sign of it a year later.

It's completely broken down, and we get fantastic compost.

[vamo48]

I too am irritated by plastic wrapping on cucumbers - totally unnecessary.  Carrots etc are sold in plastic bags, in which they deteriorate rapidly if not unpacked.  Supermarkets do give you the option of buying them loose, but provide plastic bags to put them in - why not paper?  Packs of cans could surely be packed using cardboard versions of the plastic used at present.  

A lot of plastic is disposed of irresponsibly and is found and eaten by wildlife, causing illness and death.  Some people leave plastic bottles and wrappings in the park and I have often seen such things picked up by dogs, who could be injured by them if the owners aren't quick enough.  Too many people think clearing up their rubbish is someone else's job, but it would help if the rubbish was biodegradable.  Yes, it does matter.

[lambsy_uk]

---

@023mjc wrote:

It will matter in years to come, when ther'es no room for any more holes. We are spoiling this beautiful world and future generations will suffer, including our own descendants.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

In the same programme showing methane being captured for energy it was also calculated that the area of ladfill required to contain the waste output of the USA for the next 1000 years would be about 35 square miles, which is merely a pin prick on a map, so there seems to be plenty of room.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

What annoys me most is the sheer AMOUNT of plastic that is just not necessary.  Are they trying to make us think we are getting more product than we actually are.

I just dont see why so much plastic is necessary.  What's wrong with a good old paper bag.

---

Yes unnecessary packaging should be reduced in my opinion and yes they are trying to con us into thinking we're getting more than we are. You say "what's wrong with a paper bag" but surely that's unnecessary for many items like a cucumber too. Lets not single out plastic; surely it's better to reduce all waste.

[lambsy_uk]

---

@vamo48 wrote:

I too am irritated by plastic wrapping on cucumbers - totally unnecessary.  Carrots etc are sold in plastic bags, in which they deteriorate rapidly if not unpacked.  Supermarkets do give you the option of buying them loose, but provide plastic bags to put them in - why not paper?  Packs of cans could surely be packed using cardboard versions of the plastic used at present.  

A lot of plastic is disposed of irresponsibly and is found and eaten by wildlife, causing illness and death.  Some people leave plastic bottles and wrappings in the park and I have often seen such things picked up by dogs, who could be injured by them if the owners aren't quick enough.  Too many people think clearing up their rubbish is someone else's job, but it would help if the rubbish was biodegradable.  Yes, it does matter.

---

Yes plastic is disposed of irresponsibly, as are many forms of rubbish, so the answer should surely be to reduce unnecessary materials of all types and do more to tackle littering.

Biodegradeable materials may help with this situation but remember my question was about plastics in landfill, why would a piece of plastic sitting in landfill for a few hundred years be a problem? The arguments I have seen hinge on the space they take up, having a limited amount of land. However if 1000 years of US landfill would only use up 35 square miles then surely space is not much of an issue, especially as even the plastics would biodegrade over this period of time.

I'd expect recycling to be the best option but if it comes to a choice of landfill or incineration it seems landfill may be the better option.

[theelench]

---

@023mjc wrote:

What annoys me most is the sheer AMOUNT of plastic that is just not necessary.  We buy finish dishwasher powder in big yellow plastic containers. I noticed the other day ( when the sunlight was shining on it) that it was half empty.

I weighed it, and it did weigh correctly - 1 kilo - but why all the empty space.  Are they trying to make us think we are getting more product than we actually are.  That container could easily be half the size- which would also make it easier to carry home, and store. This is not the only product using this trick.

Plastic wrapping on everything - even a cucumber is tightly encased in plastic - which I find particularly irritating when trying to remove it.   I just dont see why so much plastic is necessary.  What's wrong with a good old paper bag.  There was little point in cracking down on plastic carrier bags, when every single item you put in them is wrapped in plastic. 

---

Since my local Sainsbury's now has re-cycling bins for plastic containers I've started taking most of the plastic packaging there and probably halved the number of black sacks I put out for collection on the non-recyclable (landfill) collection weeks.

One thing I notice is that it is impossible to "stack" these containers inside one-another unless they are exactly the same product from the same distributor.  Different sliced meat from the same distributor or the same meat from different distributors will all have sightly different packaging.  Even fruit punnets are all a bit different although they contain the same weight of fruit from the same source.

I'm sure it's more to do with product identification in case of return or legal disputes than anything else and it all adds to the volume of what goes to landfill.

Going back to the expense of landfill, it wasn't always so.  Until it was decided that landfill was "bad" it wasn't expensive.  Having decided it is bad for the environment every tonne is taxed to make it expensive as an incentive to re-cycle.  It's another stealth-tax hidden inside your Council Tax.