Sixty-eight suspected illegal immigrants found in four port lorries.

[merehazle]

Including two pregnant women and 15 children have been found inside four lorries at a port in Essex.

Thirty-five people from Afghanistan. 22 from China. 10 from Vietnam and one Russian were found.

China is not a war zone.   Vietnamese? What's wrong with living in Vietnam?  Would have been closer for them to sneak into Australia surely?

Four Polish lorry drivers have been arrested on suspicion of facilitating illegal immigrants. Foreigners ''illegally'' importing foreigner's ... not sure what our war dead would think of that?

They say that 94% of lorries are not searched. And they haven't a clue how many illegals get through. How many times have we heard that said Cameron? 

Most of us in our country would be getting a rough idea though 

[upthecreekyetagain]

And your point is . . . . . . . . ???

[fallen-archie]

Unfortunately this story is but the tip of the Iceberg. The situation in Calais right now is desperate, likewise the med where boat loads are conned into paying thousands to escape, the far east is the same, the US border with Mexico, How do we resolve the problem?

The politically righteous will harp on about Blair/Bush Obama and others but is it really that simple? For me the blame lies fare and square with the United Nations where five countries hold a veto on the rest of the world and it presides over the most unfair distribution of wealth and opportunity. Each of the superpowers routinely blame each other in order to curry favour among desperate nations but the end result leaves a large proportion of the worlds population fighting to survive. Human rights should be the mantra of the UN It ought to deal with conflicts not the US, China or Russia. I suspect that the answer of many will be to blame a prominent politician But surely we all have a responsibility to close the gap between rich and poor.

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@fallen-archie wrote:

Unfortunately this story is but the tip of the Iceberg. The situation in Calais right now is desperate, likewise the med where boat loads are conned into paying thousands to escape, the far east is the same, the US border with Mexico, How do we resolve the problem?

The politically righteous will harp on about Blair/Bush Obama and others but is it really that simple? For me the blame lies fare and square with the United Nations where five countries hold a veto on the rest of the world and it presides over the most unfair distribution of wealth and opportunity. Each of the superpowers routinely blame each other in order to curry favour among desperate nations but the end result leaves a large proportion of the worlds population fighting to survive. Human rights should be the mantra of the UN It ought to deal with conflicts not the US, China or Russia. I suspect that the answer of many will be to blame a prominent politician But surely we all have a responsibility to close the gap between rich and poor.

---

Spot on, yet those shouting the loudest about incidents like this are often also the same people calling for massive reductions, if not total abolition, of oversea's aid.

[merehazle]

---

@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

And your point is . . . . . . . . ???

---

And YOUR point is..........???

Oh never mind I have guessed it    .

[joe_bloggs*]

I was at a primary school a while ago,and written on the wall in large letters was "We all look at the same moon" I've never forgotten that i thought it was so profound,but you know something? the kids all understood it

[jd.linklater]

Half of the world's wealth is owned by 1% of its population, 50% of the world's population are living on less than 2 dollars a day. Until that situation changes the world's poor will always do their utmost to get to the West and who can blame them? If you were one of those 50% wouldn't you try any conceivable possibility to improve your lot? I know I would.

[astrologica]

So......has anyone got any suggestions as to what should be done with these people?

[jd.linklater]

---

@merehazle wrote:

Including two pregnant women and 15 children have been found inside four lorries at a port in Essex.

Thirty-five people from Afghanistan. 22 from China. 10 from Vietnam and one Russian were found.

China is not a war zone.   Vietnamese? What's wrong with living in Vietnam?  Would have been closer for them to sneak into Australia surely?

Four Polish lorry drivers have been arrested on suspicion of facilitating illegal immigrants. Foreigners ''illegally'' importing foreigner's ... not sure what our war dead would think of that?

They say that 94% of lorries are not searched. And they haven't a clue how many illegals get through. How many times have we heard that said Cameron? 

Most of us in our country would be getting a rough idea though 

---

What's wrong with living in Vietnam? The same thing that is wrong with living in China or Russia or North Korea, they are all authoritarian one party states with appalling human rights records. All have arbitrary curbs on freedom of expression, association, assembly, religion, press, internet use, union membership and absolute state control of the judicial system. They all justify human rights abuses as necessary to maintain what they term 'social stability'. I wouldn't want to live in any of them, would you?

[merehazle]

---

@jd.linklater wrote:

---

@merehazle wrote:

Including two pregnant women and 15 children have been found inside four lorries at a port in Essex.

Thirty-five people from Afghanistan. 22 from China. 10 from Vietnam and one Russian were found.

China is not a war zone.   Vietnamese? What's wrong with living in Vietnam?  Would have been closer for them to sneak into Australia surely?

Four Polish lorry drivers have been arrested on suspicion of facilitating illegal immigrants. Foreigners ''illegally'' importing foreigner's ... not sure what our war dead would think of that?

They say that 94% of lorries are not searched. And they haven't a clue how many illegals get through. How many times have we heard that said Cameron? 

Most of us in our country would be getting a rough idea though 

---

What's wrong with living in Vietnam? The same thing that is wrong with living in China or Russia or North Korea, they are all authoritarian one party states with appalling human rights records. All have arbitrary curbs on freedom of expression, association, assembly, religion, press, internet use, union membership and absolute state control of the judicial system. They all justify human rights abuses as necessary to maintain what they term 'social stability'. I wouldn't want to live in any of them, would you?

---

No, thank you. But is that our fault?  And where do we draw the line? As astrologica says at #8  'So.....has anyone got any suggestions as to what should be done with these people?

Anyway, it seems almost every day there are more and more of these stories, every day more and more of these people arrive. I just wonder how many illegals are here now? No one knows. Add to that the net migration of over 300,000 year on year. If they deserve it?(illegal is illegal) I'm all for helping them but surely at where they come from. Or there will be no end to it for us and them. 

My suggestion would be to send them back to where they came and let them apply for residence from there. All costs should be charged back to the lorry drivers and companies they were representing. We cant blame ALL the migrants.

Cameron is blaming the 'aging population' for all this country's problems. The whole country knows that immigration problem is the root cause for our housing shortage, exploding prison population, soaring benefits costs, floundering schools broken NHS. I'm open to correction but if the two women have their babies here it will entitle them to a family life?

Back tonight. Er....maybe

[astrologica]

When the Titanic sunk, no-one would have attached any blame to the poor people who were struggling in the freezing waters for trying to climb aboard the lifeboats. But if they all succeeded, how many would have survived? None...this country cannot hope to take in all those people who want to save themselves and come here to live. As mere says, there has to be a line drawn somewhere, or we will sink. So far, only Mere has any suggestions as to what should be done with these poor people.

[astrologica]

And...what bothers me is that most of these people are young, able, fit men. This wonderful country of ours that we have today, was built on the sacrifices made by the young, fit and able young men who fought and gave their lives for it. They didn't run away and flee when we were threatened and the going got tough. They stood and fought in their millions in two world wars and gave us what we have today. Many of these immigrants are fleeing their own countries because they don't want to do military service. Why do they not fight for their countries? Why do they not try and make their own countries great and not try and live off the coat-tails of our lost generation of brave soldiers?
Ok.......rant over.

[cee-dee]

It's like many things. People see the "haves" and want what they've got but don't want to work for it.

A similar thing happened here. A long time back due to the post war baby boom, there was a shortage of teachers so they tried to fast-track, mass-produce teachers. In so doing, they introduced an undesirable element in to the profession.

They saw the older, established teachers who had nice homes, nice cars and were seemingly well off and they wanted the same but didn't want to work half a lifetime for it, they wanted it NOW so the militants began agitating and were very anti-establishment.

With other workers, younger people entering the work regime saw some of the older men who were also seemingly "well off" and as they'd been "educated" in militant agitation, began something similar because they wanted what the older "nice-and-steady" blokes had got but they wanted it NOW too.

It's long been said that if at midnight, all the money in the country was equally distributed amongst the population, by noon, 90% of it would be back in the hands of the previously richest people. Up to a point, that would be true.

Some people see others who appear well off but those envious don't want to earn the same, they want to steal it. In a way, those immigrants want to steal what they see in their target country.

Take a long hard look at some of them? They have no education, they can't speak the language of the country they've targeted, they've made absolutely no effort to learn it and if they get to their target country, they stick to their ghetto existence and not only don't learn the language, they don't integrate either.

They know nothing about the living conditions in their target country and turn their living area in to one of squalor.

What have they to offer in return for a safe haven in their target country? On the face of it, very little so what's the point of allowing them to target what they see as a richer country where all they intend to do is leech off the existing society?

[fallen-archie]

To suggest that as a nation young people have suddenly lost the work ethic is simply not true. What is a fact is that more and more parents pamper their offspring to the point that they believe it to be the norm ie they will receive without having to give. These are accompanied by others in families where benefits provide the main or income which sometimes creates a lifestyle many are prepared accept.The fact remains there are more people in employment than out of it. I absolutely believe opportunities exist for those willing and able to get up but the gap between the minimum wage and the wage of most professionals is too great. I agree that this group will grow in number so something must be done to help, no way is it a fair reflection of British workers as a whole. 

Teachers are a good example of a professional group who have had to watch others move ahead of them in salary with the exception where Heads are asked to run a business rather than a place of learning. 

Teaching practise has changed in mainstream schools to reflect generational expectations. No longer are teachers allowed to chuck the board rubber at a sleeping pupil or break off a chair leg and administer six of the best, in woodwoark a length of dowling, metalwork produced a steel rule and for sports the shoe from a person boasting the biggest feet. Once upon a time you had to show respect to a teacher nowadays its the other way round, things will continue to deteriorate until respect becomes mutual. 

As for militancy, The Unions did get too strong and were damaging the economy they built up expectation among the group I described earlier but they were unrealistic in their demands. So now most workers are lucky to get any increase However the salaries of professionals continue to grow thus widening the gap further add to that many professionals marry professionals it becomes even more difficult for the average person to see light at the end of the tunnel.

One poster on here talks about the demonisation of the unemployed, others see them as underprivileged. Once again the truth almost certainly sits somewhere in the middle particularly for those who have expectations beyond their ability.

Back to Migrants, Britain is full but that should not prevent us from showing compassion and doing everything we can to help these people to live normal lives without demanding barrels of oil in return.

[merehazle]

---

@fallen-archie wrote:

To suggest that as a nation young people have suddenly lost the work ethic is simply not true. What is a fact is that more and more parents pamper their offspring to the point that they believe it to be the norm ie they will receive without having to give. These are accompanied by others in families where benefits provide the main or income which sometimes creates a lifestyle many are prepared accept.The fact remains there are more people in employment than out of it. I absolutely believe opportunities exist for those willing and able to get up but the gap between the minimum wage and the wage of most professionals is too great. I agree that this group will grow in number so something must be done to help, no way is it a fair reflection of British workers as a whole. 

Teachers are a good example of a professional group who have had to watch others move ahead of them in salary with the exception where Heads are asked to run a business rather than a place of learning. 

Teaching practise has changed in mainstream schools to reflect generational expectations. No longer are teachers allowed to chuck the board rubber at a sleeping pupil or break off a chair leg and administer six of the best, in woodwoark a length of dowling, metalwork produced a steel rule and for sports the shoe from a person boasting the biggest feet. Once upon a time you had to show respect to a teacher nowadays its the other way round, things will continue to deteriorate until respect becomes mutual. 

As for militancy, The Unions did get too strong and were damaging the economy they built up expectation among the group I described earlier but they were unrealistic in their demands. So now most workers are lucky to get any increase However the salaries of professionals continue to grow thus widening the gap further add to that many professionals marry professionals it becomes even more difficult for the average person to see light at the end of the tunnel.

One poster on here talks about the demonisation of the unemployed, others see them as underprivileged. Once again the truth almost certainly sits somewhere in the middle particularly for those who have expectations beyond their ability.

Back to Migrants, Britain is full but that should not prevent us from showing compassion and doing everything we can to help these people to live normal lives without demanding barrels of oil in return.

---

'Back to Migrants, (yes almost 2 lines) Britain is full (yes that's putting it mildly) but that should not prevent us from showing compassion and doing everything we can to help these people to live normal lives without demanding barrels of oil in return' ?  ... now why would you say that 

When did we demand that?  And how many barrels?  And they want to come here because they know we will do everything we can for them. I think we should demand that they accept our laws and are here LEGALLY.

Meanwhile the EU bureaucrat's only comment was that Polish drivers were exercising their rights, granted by unelected officials, to freely cross Europe's borders. The Eurocrats main concern was that any pregnant woman should be allowed to give birth in UK so their children would be British and the mother, father, and any siblings can claim the right to a family life to live in UK.

[fallen-archie]

Briefly Mere, I raised the Oil analogy because that commodity in the past was seized by the British in the middle east North Africa and the likes of Iran, whilst we moved on they remained relatively backward and did not benefit to the extent  that they might have done under better circumstances. Today the Chinese pursue a similar policy in Africa. 

As far as the Poles are concerned, Many came here during the second world war and they fought like tigers on our side, When a small percentage of our own unemployed would not commit themselves to working in low paid jobs the Poles embraced it and worked hard because they valued the opportunity and showed real enthusiasm. However as I have said on many occasions we are a small country with a stretched infrastructure which cannot survive with uncontrolled migration unless we want to end up like Taiwan. We need to gain support from the EU to limit numbers based on the physical size of a nation. And finally instead of this little Englander nonsense why don't we help these nations Via the UN and help them to raise their own standards to enjoy the kind of freedoms we do . Who knows they might then visit us legally as tourists and spend their newly aquired wealth in this country support service industry jobs throughout the Island. Instead of slamming the door in their faces lets do something that helps both parties.