Destruction of Ancient Ruins and Artifacts.

[astrologica]

Did anyone see the programme on BBC4 on Tuesday night with Dan Cruickshank? It was showing the way in which ISIS are destroying ancient ruins and artifacts in Iraq and Syria. It really was shocking...and poor Dan was beside himself while watching the footage of those barbarians smashing up ancient temples and statues...some of which were almost 3,000 years old. The worst bit was when the BBC actually gave air time on the programme to Anjem Choudary, a supporter of ISIS living in this country. He actually supports this destruction and said it made him very happy. He also said that if ISIS get a foothold in Egypt, then the Pyramids are next. He said their version of Islam has no 'Art' as we have. What sort of world do they want, where there is no Art, music, Theatre etc for people to enjoy? Or Museums to visit to appreciate our world history? Time Mr Choudary was locked up, not allowed to appear on TV spouting his vile ideology.

[cee-dee]

I didn't see the programme and if I'd know it was on, I wouldn't have watched it anyway as I couldn't bear to watch the destruction of such irreplaceable things.

It's high time the rest of the world got to grips with those madmen and forget about rehabilitation and re-education as there's no way you could get any sense out of them ever again. We need to stop **bleep**-footing around and forget about "liberal values" as their form of ideology has no coming back to the World of reason.

What's needed in the World is a total ban on guns, an end to any non-government arms and explosives production and severe penalties on anyone in possession. Any production to be carefully monitored and it tracked all the way. Explosives have many forms and if you know how, can be made if you can source the constituents so there's a lot to monitor but it's either that or suffer what's going on as unchecked, it will only spread.

[suzieseaside]

I didn't watch it, but have been reading about it. 

It's so tragic to see such wanton detruction of humanity's history and mythology.  it will continue, inevitably.  Nothing will stop Islamic State/ISIL removing all signs of physical evidence of anything existing before their own particular and barbaric brand of Islam.

Most scary is that ISIL sees itself and its role as being a key agent bringing about the apocalypse.

We can gather that their state rejects peace as a matter of principle; that it hungers for genocide; that its religious views make it constitutionally incapable of certain types of change, even if that change might ensure its survival; and that it considers itself a harbinger of—and headline player in—the imminent end of the world.

[**bustysinclaire**]

I still find it very sad that even with the state of world affairs and the wickness that is going on throughout the world now, many many people still dismiss the fact that there is an outside force such as Satan in control of all atrocities.

Surely some will question why all this is going on and want to be reassured it is not going to be allowed to continue and there is hope for all mankind.

Mankind is not capable of solving all these world problems. Years of history getting to this world state has proved it.

[cee-dee]

Satan eh? It exists in everyone. However, the vast majority of people reason their actions as to what is right and what is wrong.

Twisted people just see what they choose to do as "right" and have no regard for the fact that their version of "right" is not only wrong, it's wicked too.

[**bustysinclaire**]

I agree with that statement CD.

I personally believe though that Satan does exist and is the wicked influence, but that we all have the capacity/ability to overcome those wicked influences and rise above them and become good and righteous, if we acknowledge we need the help from the almighty (God - Jehovah)

That aside though, what is going on with this relatively new threat is horrific to say the least. And the last masacre on those beautiful beaches is just plain evil.

[cke786]

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@**bustysinclaire** wrote:

(God - Jehovah) 

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Actually, Yahweh.

It does frustrait that these bacteria are destroying these ancient artifacts, just because they belong to another belief system! How would they like it if we started blowing up places that they held holy, Mecca for example, they probably wouldn't. They are nothing more than a plague that needs to be eradicated!

[malacandran]

@ cke786 - you make a very perceptive point.  What if the Westerners started bombing Mecca?  This could be easily done by US strategic bombers, such as B-52s and B-2s.  However, it seems that we don't need to bother.  Because the Arabs are already doing a good job destroying their most holy site.   As is claimed in the following:

"Under Saudi rule, it has been estimated that since 1985 about 95% of Mecca's historic buildings, most over a thousand years old, have been demolished.

Historic sites of religious importance which have been destroyed by the Saudis include five of the renowned "Seven Mosques" initially built by Muhammad's daughter and four of his "greatest Companions": Masjid Abu Bakr, Masjid Salman al-Farsi, Masjid Umar ibn al-Khattab, Masjid Sayyida Fatima bint Rasulullah and Masjid Ali ibn Abu Talib.

It has been reported that there are now fewer than 20 structures remaining in Mecca that date back to the time of Muhammad. Other buildings that have been destroyed include the house of the wife of Muhammad, demolished to make way for public lavatories; the house of  Muhammad's companion, now the site of the local Hilton Hotel,  the house of Muhammad's grandson, now the location of the King's palace in Mecca; and Muhammad's birthplace, demolished to make way for a library.

The reason for much of the destruction of historic buildings has been for the construction of hotels, apartments, parking lots, and other infrastructure facilities for Hajj pilgrims. However, many have been destroyed without any such reason. For example, when the house of Ali-Oraid was discovered, King Fahd himself ordered that it be bulldozed lest it should become a pilgrimage site."

This seems shocking - is it true?

[electric*mayhem*band]

 I can't say what I really want to say on here about those murderous and barbaric heathens, or concerning my opinion regarding that twisted and depraved laboratory specimen, Anjem Choudary. What I'd really like to say would no doubt break a few rules and regulations, so for the rest of this post, I will sit on my hands.

[merehazle]

Hello Busty.   Well who is winning? And did God allow Satan to exist? Or the Devil allow God to exist? It seems as if the Devil is winning.  Well it's just the evil in humans that exists isn't it.

Take sometime every now and then

Think back and say 'I remember when'

You were as brothers you and they

Sent by your country into the fray

To a land of the sun, dried dirt and dust

Where dollars may rent loyalty, but you built trust

Where from flowering death they eek out a living

Or take what they can from whoever is giving

They carried all they needed on aching back

Tabbing mile on mile awaiting the crack

As from a mile away a sniper takes you

Or the land beneath erupts to break you

Now you're at home and carry on

While others you knew they're now gone

Their laughter is missed but their faces you spy

When asleep or briefly out the corner of an eye

So growing older don't let memories soften

Drink to their names, let them cross your lips often

For all the STONE and the BRASS, it counts for ought

If  we forget the names of those that fought.

As astro, says:  ''What sort of a world do they want, where there is no Art,  music, Theatre etc to enjoy?''.

And it allows me to express my soul, and in viewing others art to see the best that is inside them.

[malacandran]

That's a long impressive poem.

Though its scansion and metre seem occasionally dubious. And it's hard to work out what it actually means.

Could it be presented in a simpler plain English prose version?  I mean, without the rhymes? 

[astrologica]

Hello Busty!😊 so we need the help of God. Well...if he is going to help, he'd better get a move on. Thing is....you think that your God, Jehovah, is the 'right' one, but they think that their God, Allah, is the right one. So who is right? This evil is just the work of Man...the dark side of him. It's very scary, and I am beginning to wish that I had never had children, I fear for them so much. If we do not crush this evil, life will not be worth much for them.

[astrologica]

I don't know if that is true or not. But another thing that was shown on the programme was the sheer hypocrisy of these people. Although they are destroying temples and buildings and statues, they are not above saving small ancient artifacts and selling them to collectors for huge amounts to finance their evil work. Unbelievable....

[merehazle]

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@malacandran wrote:

That's a long impressive poem.

Though its scansion and metre seem occasionally dubious. And it's hard to work out what it actually means.

Could it be presented in a simpler plain English prose version?  I mean, without the rhymes? 

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Hi. Du,  ju, wot? That is exactly lik wot it woz rote.

No, I cant present it another way without abusing the poet's poem.  Now then I myself do the occasional poem. And I just might offer some later. So YOU may have that to look forward to

Sorry, I cant promise though.

That is exactly the way it was written. Poetry is often written that way. That's the poets punctuation. Not mine.

Thank you.  

[malacandran]

Thanks merehazel, I didn't intend any offence!

It's just that I think poetry is **bleep**.  If something needs to be said, it can be said in plain language.  Without making words on the end of each line, rhyme with each other.

I mean, what's the point of rhyme?  Does it increase the information content of the message?

Bear in mind, that Shakespeare didn't use rhyme in most of his works.  He didn't write Hamlet in rhyming verse.

I note with pleasure your kind offer to supply some poems, and will consider them on their merits, should you choose to submit them, thanks!

[cee-dee]

The Pyramids are a lot further away from IS than a very important archaeological site in Turkey, Göbekli Tepe (OK, credit to Rosie for mentioning it years back).

The site is about 20 miles from the Syrian border but the Turks are a force not to be messed with so if IS tries to cause trouble there, they'll be for it.....

[joe_bloggs*]

Looted in Syria – and sold in London: the British antiques shops dealing in artefacts smuggled by Isis

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2015/jul/03/antiquities-looted-by-isis-end-up-in-london-shops

one of the comments after the article: 

"The stark reality is that the sale of those antiques in London is financing the weapons that kill innocent British tourists in places like Tunisia.

The people selling them in London are aiding and abetting the murder of British citizens and should be dealt with accordingly"

[malacandran]

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"The people selling them in London are aiding and abetting the murder of British citizens and should be dealt with accordingly"

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Do you mean they should be charged with murder?  Surely that's not sensible.

I mean, suppose a British antique-shop sold an old sword to a purchaser.  Who then used it, to behead a British tourist in Tunisia.

Could the antique-shop then be held to blame, for aiding and abetting in murder?