A second referendum.

[astrologica]

The holidays are over, the kids are back in school, and Parliament is back in Westminster. Brexit is likely to dominate the proceedings there. This morning, Vince Cable was on TV discussing Brexit, and in his view there should, and will be a second referendum. His view is that another referendum would be a 'first ' referendum, because new facts have come to light, and we would be voting with different information.

What do you good people think of a second referendum, or a second vote on the final agreement? If there were to be another vote, would you vote differently from last time?

[fallen-archie]

I for one would not welcome another referendum, if the Eurocrats have their way and the uk is punished for demanding greater sovereignty so be it! I feel sorry for those younger than me that they may lose some of the benefits the free market offers however there are more countries outside the EU than in it and in my opinion Britain cannot sustain the level of immigration we have seen in recent years. Every corner one goes round at the moment has another housing development, yet we have so many on the streets, the roads are clogged up, we have dozens of food banks and yet the population is fatter than it has ever been! Let's get back to basics, and get out of Europe asap.

[astrologica]

Thank you for posting Archie.  After the first referendum I didn't think that we should have another, on the same subject. But the behaviour of the remoaners and their efforts to try and ensure that we never leave, is very worrying. I am now thinking that once all the negotiations have ended and we have some sort of a final deal, then maybe we should have a vote on it. I think that no deal would be better than a bad deal, and that if they continue to stall and want to punish us, then we should walk away. As Norman Tebbit said 'Brexit is terribly simple...'Goodbye, I hope we remain friends'.

I have lost count of the number of times I have heard condescending remoaners saying that we who voted to leave 'didn't know what we were voting for'. How patronising is that? I voted not to join the EEC in the 1970's....even then I smelled a rat. And we who voted then really didn't know what we were voting for then. No-one knew what the ultimate plan was, but it is becoming clear now.

Before we have another referendum, or any sort of vote, the public should be made fully aware of the intentions of the EU.

There are two things that every member of the public should familiarise themselves with.

No1, The Coudenhove- Kalergi Plan for Europe.

No2, The Barcelona Euro-Mediterranean Declaration 1995..

Both can be found online.

These two documents explain everything that is happening now, and what the plan is for Europe. If anyone hasn't read them, I recommend they do so. It may help when deciding how to vote if we ever have to do so again. 

[vamo48]

I too voted against joining the EEC and have never met anyone who admits voting "for".  There is no point in having a referendum if we have to keep going back to the polling station until we get the answer the politicians want.  That is not democracy.

[bankhaunter]

People didn't know what they were voting for, other than emotion and false promises, remember the £350 million?

To hold a binding referendum was probably one of the most stupid thing a politician has ever done, made worse by a close result.

However it's too late now, it's done, the boats are burnt, there can be no second referendum.

[al**bear]

There MUST be another Vote

People were conned

Think of all the promises that were given, when people voted for leaving.

Nearly everyone of them have vanished

Also very worrying power grab by the Government, who want total control, over changing EU laws into British law

You know the Free marketeers in the Nasty Tory party, will dilute or get rid of a lot of Our, Human/Employment Rights, Environmental/Food/product safety standards, Your Privacy, Theresa Mays snoopers charter was heavily watered down, because of EU rules.

These will all happen, If Changes can be made without Parliamentary scrutiny, by the rubber stamp of a Government Minister

[al**bear]

Still constantly hearing by Brexiteers and their chums in the media, that the majority of the UK Voted FOR Leaving

No they didn't, about a Third of the total electorate voted FOR - that is not an ironclad mandate

Certainly not something that should rule out a reversal

[vamo48]

I was under the impression that all votes were counted, regardless of constituency

[fallen-archie]

If only parliamentary scrutiny was as worthwhile as you suggest Al! In the main scrutiny means let's do what's best for us in reality it is a way of making political points as happens on here.

[astrologica]

Vamos....my husband voted 'for' joining the EEC, so it's all his fault! I do broadly agree with you that a referendum has been held and the democratic result should be respected. I absolutely reject the idea that we all believed the '350 million' promise..I didn't believe that for one minute. Most people who voted out did so because they could see how the EU operates, and wanted none of it. I do have this niggling feeling that the government might go 'soft', and I think an awful lot of other people have that fear. Maybe you are right, and we have to trust the government to do what the majority wanted, and leave, full stop. Successive governments have been twiddling their thumbs in their Westminster 'ivory towers' and ignoring what this country has turned into. I fear there will be civil unrest if they don't.

[astrologica]

Al, I would just like to ask you, if I may, are you familiar with the Coudenhove Kalergi plan, and the Barcelona Euro -Mediterranean Declaration of 1995. Just asking...

[**bustysinclaire**]

2nd referendum or not.

In or out

What difference is it going to make.

Every country and its political leaders are out for what is best for their country, they have no desire to include any otther country in the decisions they make.

To improve life as we know it, economically. Poliiically or otherwise every country has to learn, accept and exist in unity, in my opinion every chance has been given and over thousands of years mankind has proved it cannot.

If there is no outside intervention then the world of mankind is coming to an abrupt end. It is critical out there. Xxx

[cee-dee]

I think a few extracts from the Coudenhove Kalergi plan might illustrate what you mean? Although some would say that whatver was extracted "has been taken out of context" the main ideas were of a World Government with a few super states of which the European Union would be one.

The idea was to remove national identities and adopt multi-culturism but do it soooooooo slowly as to not attract condemnation or criticism. By allowing unrestricted migration the idea was to have the many ethnic groups all squabbling amongst themselves so that they wouldn't notice the increasing controls of the New World Government.

[javikha_4]

I believe the point being made is that overall a majority didn't vote in favor, a small minority of those voting at the time did.

When I have visited France or Germany, in general I don't get the impression they feel any less French or German.

Likewise, in America, Texans or Virginians or whoever  still mainly have a distinct sense of who they are as a state, including state laws and representation, which isn't lost as a part of a union.

[astrologica]

CeeDee, thank you for that. You have the general idea. In the past, the true purpose of the EU was hidden, and we had no idea what was planned. It was deliberately kept quiet. The immigration from the Middle East and Africa may seem to some to be a result of refugees fleeing from war, but in reality it was all planned, and planned a very long time ago. Isn't it strange (not) that the recipients of the Kalergi prize, (now benignly renamed the Charlemagne prize)  include Tony Blair, Angela Merkel, Juncker, Von Rumpouy. How many people know about the Kalergi Prize and what it was for? Not many. The utter deceit of the EU in pursuing its dark aims is breathtaking.  In a way the public didn't know what was at stake in the referendum, but not in the way that the Remoaners are portraying it. 

[astrologica]

Busty, thank you for posting. I think I agree that the future of mankind is looking very grim, and that is mainly because of religion. Difficult times ahead.....I am glad I am old.

[fallen-archie]

In response to the question of majorities, there are always those who choose not to vote for whatever reason and as such they cannot be counted for either side, therefore the vote was lost. So now is the time to move on not moan about what might have been!

[j_uk643]

It was all the fault of van rumpov, oooh err matron lol

Referendums aren't really much use unless they are fairly overwhelming in their results, otherwise neither side is happy

Of course if the result is what you wanted it must not be challenged, ever!, lol

In reality had it gone the other way, the moaners would be making the same argument that the situation had not been settled

We don't elect governments forever

Although there appears to be growing support for another vote, it seems unlikely, at least  before actually leaving, though the political map can change. That said, it's also likely the exit will be just temporary over the long term, and the UK will be back in this time with the euro. 

[fallen-archie]

😂

[j_uk643]

It must be very problematic when the most complex matter one has ever dealt with in life is whether something is 'ambient, chilled, or frozen'.