Lost item

[abosbo-0]

Hi. Could someone help and advise please. 
My eBay order was delivered and signed for but I was not home. The signature is not mine and the picture is the postman holding it in front of the door. I can't find it anywhere and I have no safe space on the Royal Mail app as there is nowhere safe to leave it. I had no delivery slot either otherwise I would have stayed home.
 Asked neighbours etc and no luck. 
Royal Mail are saying it's the sellers responsibility to sort it and the seller is saying they won't help as it was 'delivered and signed for'. 
It was sent 24 hrs tracked and cost me over £1600 so very keen to get a resolution. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. 

[rjwilmsi]

Is the GPS location on the delivery tracking on the Royal Mail website the correct location of your address? Is the door in the photo your front door? Was the item sent using Royal Mail Special Delivery?

Strictly, the seller is responsible for safe delivery. However, in this instance if the tracking looks correct I would first contact Royal Mail myself. If the postie has left a Special Delivery item on your doorstep (not safe) and signed for it themselves that is a breach of Royal Mail policy and Royal Mail should investigate. However, Royal Mail do tend to try to get rid of enquiries so you will have to be persistent with them. Make it clear that you believe an expensive item was left unsafe and a signature was faked so you require Royal Mail to investigate it.

If Royal Mail do then admit that the postie left the item unsafe, you still need to claim from the seller because Royal Mail only pay compensation to the sender, plus an item of that value may not have been fully insured with Royal Mail by the seller.

[myriad*seller]

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@rjwilmsi wrote:

If Royal Mail do then admit that the postie left the item unsafe, you still need to claim from the seller because Royal Mail only pay compensation to the sender, plus an item of that value may not have been fully insured with Royal Mail by the seller.

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Incorrect.

Both sender and recipient can claim from RM.

OP cannot "claim from the seller" as they will lose any eBay case they open as the seller has proof of delivery

They cannot do a chargeback as seller has proof of delivery

How exactly should they "claim from the seller"? 

[dancewithadingo]

Good Afternoon abo

That's an awful situation that you find yourself in with no one seemingly willing to help or denying any responsibility.

I agree completely with those wise words of rjw.  Make Royal Mail your first port of call and be persistent. If after exhausting all possibilities and avenues you still draw a blank would it not be possible to do a charge back via your funding source?

Hopefully other respondents will be able to add to the advice offered and help you resolve this terrible/worrying  situation, £1600 is a vast amount of money to lose.

Good luck.  Keep referring back ro see what othgers have said/advised.

[myriad*seller]

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@abosbo-0 wrote:

Hi. Could someone help and advise please. 
My eBay order was delivered and signed for but I was not home. The signature is not mine and the picture is the postman holding it in front of the door. I can't find it anywhere and I have no safe space on the Royal Mail app as there is nowhere safe to leave it. I had no delivery slot either otherwise I would have stayed home.
 Asked neighbours etc and no luck. 
Royal Mail are saying it's the sellers responsibility to sort it and the seller is saying they won't help as it was 'delivered and signed for'. 
It was sent 24 hrs tracked and cost me over £1600 so very keen to get a resolution. Any help would be appreciated. Thank you. 

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I doubt the RM compensation cover for 24 hr tracked will pay out £1600, even if you do claim from RM

The item was probably insured for a LOT less than the actual sale price...

It might be a case of small claims court, providing you have the sellers name and address.... 

[rjwilmsi]

@myriad*seller I agree these scenarios can be a difficult situation. I don't think my advice was wrong though.

Hopefully for the buyer there is evidence of misdelivery e.g. GPS location is nowhere near their address, or photo isn't their door. Hence why I asked that first. If the tracking is "correct" then I agree buyer may have a hard time getting their money back.

In this case I do NOT think that the buyer should claim from Royal Mail for at least two reasons. Firstly as you say the item may not have been fully insured: Special Delivery is £750 default and insuring for £1600 would be costly, so I doubt seller did it (or seller's item cost is under £750 so default insurance was adequate for their need). While not many items are excluded from compensation using SD, the item may not be insured at all by RM. Secondly, we don't know who the seller was but if they used a business account to buy the postage then the RM retail compensation doesn't apply.

So what I've suggested is that buyer needs to get RM to investigate and hope they admit incorrect delivery. Then the buyer will have evidence to take to eBay for an Item Not Received claim, or a chargeback.

The buyer can still open an INR claim without any such evidence, but as you say the seller won't lose the claim if tracking is "correct", so buyer would depend on eBay providing the refund. I don't think eBay will agree to a courtesy refund of £1600 without good evidence.

I don't know how chargebacks for non-delivery are assessed. I agree with "correct" tracking the chargeback may be refused.

If the buyer can prove that they weren't at home at time of delivery e.g. they were at work in meeting with boss and they live alone / partner was likewise at work and can prove it, then perhaps they would have to consider a small claims court case, because at least in the court case they would have the opportunity to present evidence that if RM say they signed for the item that can't be true because they have witnesses to prove they were elsewhere. A lot of effort and stress for most people to carry out a cout case though I think (unless familiar with it from work / prior experience).

[myriad*seller]

The parcel was sent 24 hr tracked (not SD by the sound of it), more likely parcelforce 

RM are not required to deliver to  the person named on the package, just to the address, so OP being at home/not at home at time of delivery is immaterial. Anyone can sign for the item, eg a neighbour, wife, girlfriend, the dog. RM are not required to get the addressees signature. Any signature will do. 

[rjwilmsi]

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@myriad*seller wrote:

The parcel was sent 24 hr tracked (not SD by the sound of it), more likely parcelforce 

RM are not required to deliver to  the person named on the package, just to the address, so OP being at home/not at home at time of delivery is immaterial. Anyone can sign for the item, eg a neighbour, wife, girlfriend, the dog. RM are not required to get the addressees signature. Any signature will do. 

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It's not clear what service was used. For £1600 and Royal Mail app and signature mentioned then I assume/hope Special Delivery. But it could be ParcelForce 24, some people don't make the distiction - though I thought ParcelForce just do photos not signatures now.

Signature: correct, doesn't have to be addressee. But Royal Mail should record name of person who did receive it and get their signature. If buyer could prove nobody was at home but delivery shows their name then that could be evidence of incorrect delivery / postman falsifying signature - hence why I asked about that. If delivered to neighbour then tracking should say that and have a different name. As I understand it Royal Mail are supposed to be strict on correct name and signature for SD and postie cannot self-sign (whereas for Signed For probably nobody cares much and while my usual postie does it by the book many may be willing to self-sign now).

[simplyessential_uk]

Have you been in touch with the seller? You will also see on the tracking "delivered by (then the name of DO)" is it near you? This will give you an indication of where it is...Ive had this happen and saw RM delivered to completely wrong city so thats immediate proof or the seller may have simply pasted in the wrong tracking number or got 2 orders mixed up and sent to wrong address..

The seller shouldnt be sending a £1600 item 24tracked which only offers upto £150 compensation so that in itself is negligent, so clsiming from RM will not see you refunded £1600

so Id suggest approach seller first to clarify the address/tracking is correct. 

If it is the contact Ebay by calling (not opening a case as tracking will close it by bots)  ebay https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/eua?id=5275&mkevt=1&mkpid

Ebay offer buyer protection but you have to prove the item wasnt delivered to you so get the GPS off RM and if the image helps prove that then use that also. 

If you get no joy with ebay go to your card issuer and open a chargeback, yes the seller has a signature BUT along with evidence thats its not your signature,  nor your house (attach info from Google maps of your door) you will win as credit cards are stricter re proof, eg they need proof of door open handing customer the item, not just delivered showing a closed door.

[abosbo-0]

I don't have name and address. It was a camera from a business seller. 
Yes the tracking was right and the house was my front door. I can only imagin it was left and maybe taken as I don't know what else could have happened. 
I feel very helpless on what to do. 
Thanks for your reply. 

[abosbo-0]

Hello. 
Thanks for your reply. 
All tracking was correct and the front door was mine. The only thing that was wrong was that it wasn't my signature although it's down as my name. 
I can only imagine it was left somewhere and taken as it was delivered at 10am and I wasn't home until past 5pm. 
I'm self employed so can't prove I wasn't home other than the customers at work. 
Thanks again 

[abosbo-0]

Thank you so much for your advice. 

[abosbo-0]

The signature was not mine but was my name. Although first name only. 
Does that help? 
Thank you 

[abosbo-0]

It was my house but not my signature although it says my name. 
It was 24hr tracked so I can only presume it was left somewhere unsafe. 
it was delivered at 10am and didnt get home until 5pm ish. 
Thank you 

[zoomingmouse]

It sounds like the parcel was signed by the postie if there's a photo of it at your <?> door.

This would mean it's most likely been stolen, as you've already checked with neighbours, unless as @rjwilmsi has advised it was misdelivered.

If you have not specified a 'safe place' for deliveries & it's been left on the doorstep, then it's my understanding that you can claim.

However, it also appears that the value of the item should not have been sent via Tracked 24 as this amount would not be covered.

I think I would try to get evidence of wrong doing on the delivery side from RM first. 

I would open a case for non delivery on Ebay, which the seller will win as they have a delivery signature, which you can then appeal <although they should not have sent it via the method chosen, which may also be worth mentioning>. 

You will need the evidence to stand a chance of winning I expect, but I think it's worth trying on Ebay first as a chargeback will take longer.

I would also report to action fraud if stolen and set the ball in motion for a report/claim number in case you need it.

[myriad*seller]

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@abosbo-0 wrote:

I don't have name and address. It was a camera from a business seller. 
Yes the tracking was right and the house was my front door. I can only imagin it was left and maybe taken as I don't know what else could have happened. 
I feel very helpless on what to do. 
Thanks for your reply. 

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If it was a business seller their name and address will be on the bottom of the original listing in the Contact Details section 

[abosbo-0]

Thanks so much. That's very helpful. 

[simplyessential_uk]

Thats evidence enough for a chargeback, the proof doesnt have your signature and of an open door.

Youre unlikely to get any joy from RM. Youll be refunded via chargeback and seller with then have to claim off RM but as they only paid 24tracking the max they can claim for is £150, so that will be an expensive lesson for them plus a charge back fine of £15 (differs between card issuers) Id go straight down that route personally 

[abosbo-0]

What's chargeback? Is that on eBay? 
on the Royal Mail claim form it says they can't look into it as it came from outside the uk. 
Thank you 

[myriad*seller]

Oh dear, so small claims court action is out of the question too then

A chargeback is where you contact your bank/debit card provider and request a refund for the item if you paid by card. 

They may, or may not refund you, as the seller has proof of delivery. Whether they consider this delivery or not, is in the lap of the gods.