Item collected by his courier and damaged now wants a refund

[blewbury039]

Put an antique grandfather clock on auction. Highest bidder won and arranged his courier. The carrier had specific instructions on packaging which I followed. The day after it was delivered the buyer made a claim that it had been damaged. He lodged a claim against the carrier, which was refused. His claim on the Cash back was refused by ebay. He has now lodged a diferent claim of "Not matching the description or photos" and "Item is defective" and now expects me to pay for the return and give a refund. He refuses to supply me with any evidence to support this claim. I need to be able to put my side of the issue, how do I do that?

[tressygirl]

My understanding that for collected items, sending a courier means ' a third party' is involved and this invalidates any claim for a refund under eBay's 30 day MBG,  Money Back Guarantee policy.

Send them a polite message explaining this ruling,  stressing that the buyer for a collected item has the luxury of examining an item before paying, when they come themselves to inspect that it is working,  and that it is as described.

This from eBay's help pages:

Read the exemptions to the money back guarantee. When buyers aren't covered, that gives sellers a degree of protection. For example, they are not covered if they send a third party to collect an item rather than collecting in person, or the seller arranging postage/delivery.

[tommystrezures]

Your item clearly states collection only. If a buyer then sends their courier in (and yes this is a third party)to collect the item they invalidate the ebay MBG and thus cannot make any claim against you, as @tressygirl  says. Ultimately its not your responsibility if the item has unfortunately been damaged in transit, the onus is on the buyer who is taking a chance.

If the buyer does somehow manage to open a case for not as described, you would need to talk to CS about this and make clear to them that this was a collection only item the buyer sent their own carrier in thus invalidating ebay policy/MBG.

By the way as an aside, it was a beautiful looking clock.

[papso22]

Could you please clarify exactly what claims the buyer has made so far, with who, for what reason, and what was the result?

What is a 'cash back ' claim?

[*vyolla*]

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@blewbury039 wrote:

 His claim on the Cash back was refused by ebay. 

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What does this mean?

[blewbury039]

Thanks all for your input, been feeling like I am talking to an empty room. I am a private seller with no returns policy. This was an auction and the winner arranged and sent acouier to collect. The carriers specific instruction on packaging was not to pack anything in bubble wrap because they would be unable to see the goods. They supplied staraps and blankets and if I had wraped the clock parts they would be carreid at the owners own risk. I followed these instruction. The buyer made contact when he received the clock and I guided him through how to set it up. He came across aproblem which I advised him to seek proffesional help for. Evidentaly the buyer claimed the carrier had damaged the clock, I suggested they make a claim against the carrier. I was told this was rejected and ebay found in my faviour with regard to the MBG not covered. Then came "Double Jeapody" The buyer then made a claim of the item not matching the description or photos and the item was defective. I dispute his claim and of course the item would be defective after being damaged. It appears on the options from ebay there is little if any protection from spurious claim by buyers. Thank for the Tommystrezures for your comment about the clock, it is a genuine nice clock that was working before being dismantled ready for the courier. You suggest I talkt CS, who are they and how do I contact them?

Thanks again for the help and Happy New Year

[papso22 · Accepted solution]

Is the second claim through the buyer's funding source, otherwise known as a chargeback or payment dispute?

[4_bathrooms]

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@blewbury039 wrote:

Evidentaly the buyer claimed the carrier had damaged the clock, I suggested they make a claim against the carrier. I was told this was rejected and ebay found in my faviour with regard to the MBG not covered. Then came "Double Jeapody" The buyer then made a claim of the item not matching the description or photos and the item was defective.

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Something doesn't sound quite right; "doesn't match description or photos" is an eBay Money Back Guarantee reason for filing a dispute.

In the first "request" your buyer opened what is the precise reason eBay states the request was opened for ("Your buyer has opened a request because ...")?

The second request sounds like an eBay Money Back Guarantee claim as if they had filed a payment dispute (chargeback) with their payment provider the reason would usually be something like "The item is significantly not as described" or "The item is faulty or defective".

I'm not sure if it's possible for a buyer to file (then lose) a payment dispute then file an MBG claim but it sounds like this is what has happened. 

[blewbury039]

His first claim was when he discovered the damage and his claim against the carrier was rejected. Evidently because he used a courier to collect his claim was not covered by the MBG. eBay found in my faviour. I suspect the fact they lost that claim they decided to have a second bight at the cherry (Double Jeapody) Could end up being triple jeapody or even quadrupal jeapody, endless!

[4_bathrooms]

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@blewbury039 wrote:

His first claim was when he discovered the damage and his claim against the carrier was rejected. 

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What was the specific reason given in the buyer's original eBay request? It will be at the end of the sentence "Your buyer opened a request because..." (or a similar sentence).

As far as I'm aware buyers can't open two eBay Money Back Guarantee cases for "item not as described" (INAD) reasons. They can open a case for not receiving the item (INR) then another, separate claim for the item not being as described. Or they can open an INAD case then file a dispute with their payment provider - payment disputes are not eBay Money Back Guarantee cases. The second case/request sounds like an eBay MBG claim for an INAD reason meaning the first case/request was unlikely to have been one as well.

You should be protected but it's difficult to advise what you need to do without knowing what types of case have been opened and in what order. 

[blewbury039]

To be honest I don't know for sure. Second bite at the cherry for th same item under MBG I assume

[*vyolla*]

Okay, so your buyer opened an eBay item not as described claim and eBay (quite rightly) found in your favour because the buyer wasn't covered due to them arranging third party collection.

And now are you saying that they've issued a chargeback via their bank or card provider?

[blewbury039]

First was because the carrier refused their claim for the alleged damage, I think it was classsed as MBG claim, eBay refused and found in my faviour because they had used a courier to collect the clock, advertised collect. This latest claim is also under the MBG as i understand although the buyer will not send me any proof why they think this item is not as described.

[4_bathrooms]

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@blewbury039 wrote:

First was because the carrier refused their claim for the alleged damage, I think it was classsed as MBG claim, eBay refused and found in my faviour because they had used a courier to collect the clock, advertised collect. This latest claim is also under the MBG as i understand although the buyer will not send me any proof why they think this item is not as described.

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The carrier likely denied their claim because antiques are almost always a non-compensation item; eBay would have had no involvement at all in the buyer's claim against the carrier.

If the buyer then filed a dispute with their payment provider (also known as a chargeback) you would have received a notification of the dispute via eBay. This would not have been an eBay MBG case; the case would indicate the buyer had filed a dispute with their payment provider. The exact reason your buyer chose when opening the dispute/request can be found in the very first message relating to the case.

The request that has been opened stating "Doesn't match description or photos" is almost certainly an eBay MBG case. As the buyer employed their own courier they lost their MBG protection in it's entirety. You may have to point this out to eBay when you speak to them; the relevant part of the policy is here. 

I'm basing this advice on the details you have provided; you still haven't stated the exact reason given for the first case being opened so none of us know what type of case it was.

[blewbury039]

Sorry, yes the first wasclaim was for non delivery which turned out to be because they had not indicated delived on the site. Second claim was because their claim for compensation from the carrier had been rejected, but as said that claim failed because not covered by MBG. It is all getting a bit messy because the buyer is conflating the failed damage claim with the latest Does not match claim.

[douglaspuglas]

I am finding this hard to understand so just to be clear.

Did your buyer firstly open an eBay not received case that failed.

Secondly did they try to make a damage claim with the courier that failed because the item was excluded from their compensation list.

Thirdly have they now opened a not as described eBay case?

[pillarboxred]

I think you will be able to walk away from this. Item Not as Described cases often hinge on the quality of the photos in the listing and the photos the complainer submits showing the current state of the item. If the photos the seller used are not crystal clear, eBay will tend to lend credence to the buyer. Antiques are a nuisance as a half inch restored piece of veneer if present but not mentioned and shown in the photos could be enough to lose a case. However, I think you could win this. 

[douglaspuglas]

As the buyer didn't pay cash on collection it could get complicated.

This reminds me of the posts from both buyer and seller in October about some collected dining chairs.

I think eBay refunded the buyer and the seller kept the money or something like that.

This is one of the threads https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Selling-furniture-buyer-wants-refund/td-p/7499463/pag... 

[4_bathrooms]

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@blewbury039 wrote:

Sorry, yes the first wasclaim was for non delivery which turned out to be because they had not indicated delived on the site. Second claim was because their claim for compensation from the carrier had been rejected, but as said that claim failed because not covered by MBG. It is all getting a bit messy because the buyer is conflating the failed damage claim with the latest Does not match claim.

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OK, forget the first "item not received" claim and the buyer's claim with their carrier. You need to contact eBay's customer services and explain that as the buyer arranged for their own courier to collect the item you're not responsible for any transit damage. You can quote the policy if you are speaking to someone on the telephone or link to it if the discussion is via a web chat.

You need to be very clear when speaking with eBay; you just need to get the above point across. Don't mention the buyer's claim with their carrier as that isn't eBay's concern and will only confuse things. Just make it clear the buyer arranged their own courier to collect and therefore you're not responsible for any damage that occurred in transit as the buyer has lost their Money Back Guarantee protection. 

[4_bathrooms]

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@douglaspuglas wrote:

This reminds me of the posts from both buyer and seller in October about some collected dining chairs.

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The buyer collected the chairs themself so they were still protected under eBay's Money Back Guarantee policy.