Evri delivered to safe place, buyer now states item missing.

[oae2021]

So I need a bit of advice please.

I've sent an item via evri tracked and the item has been marked as delivered left in secure location.

From looking at the proof of delivery picture and Google maps I've worked out it was left behind a black wheelie bin and location of where it was left meant that no one would be able to see it if they walked passed the persons house. The only way they would have known it was there is if they had seen it being left there. 

I've looked at the tracking history and it did give the buyer a 1 hour estimated delivery slot along if they were not going to be in.

I've created a case on with evri as a sender and encouraged the buyer to do the same to apply pressure to evri.

As a seller where do i stand if the buyer request a refund? Evri shows it being hidden away prety well. The buyer had information when the delivery would happen. 

 

 

[tressygirl]

You cannot be,  and are not,  responsible for where a courier / carrier leaves an item.

You have tracking to show delivery to the address eBay provided for you on the order details for the item, and it was delivered to that address.  Where it was left,  is not your responsibility.

If the buyer opens a case for item not received, enter the tracking number into the case details,  and it will close in your favour,  no need to refund.

I would enter now,  if you haven't done so already,  that tracking number where you marked the item as dispatched.

[oae2021]

Thanks for taking the time to reply to my questions.

I always add the tracking number to ebay straight away on dispatch.

I understand the buyers side where the item could be stolen if it was highly visible but in my opinion after looking on Google Street View  it was well hidden. 

It is possible that someone watched the delivery driver hide the item then take it, but this could happen for every delivery left in a safe place. 

My argument is that the buyer had the oppertunity to redirect the delivery to a parcel shop or specify their own safe place or leave with a neighbour and the delivery had a 1 hour estimated time slot and chose not to do anything.

[tressygirl]

These things happen,  it's not rare.

Items left outside when owners are not home are open to ' thieving fingers' passing.

It's not your responsiblity as I have said, where the carrier leaves the item , or where the buyer selects or does not select,  where they deem is a safe place on their property.

You have tracking to show delivery,  you do not have to refund.

[oae2021]

Thanks again. 

I've suggested to the buyer to wait and see what evri do or say....not much I expect. I'll then suggest to the buyer to open up an item not received case where I'll upload the tracking information that should close in my favour. That way I have met my obligations as a decent seller and done all I can my side. 

I read this on a post on this community

"Has your buyer opened an INR case via eBay? If

they have you need to upload the tracking number

to the case - eBay does not do this automatically.

Uploading the tracking number to the case will

close it in your favour. If your buyer hasn't opened

an INR case ask them to do so.

Your buyer can then file a dispute with their

payment provider for not receiving their item and

should do so if/when they lose the eBay Money

Back Guarantee case. This will create a new case

via eBay - according to eBay's payment dispute

seller protections you are protected against being

held liable as you have sufficient proof of delivery.

Your buyer will still receive a refund but their refund

will be funded by eBay rather than yourself."

[m25jet]

Although the person delivering the item may have thought it would be a good idea to hide the item behind a wheelie bin, if you think about it it was a bit of a stupid thing to do.  Think about it from the dustman's point of view - if the dustman was due to come and collect the rubbish that day and he'd seen a cardboard box next to the wheelie bins what conclusion do you think he would have come to - that the item was actually wanted, or that it had been put out with the rubbish to be chucked away?  You don't need to be an expert to conclude that if something's been put next to the wheelie bins the most logical conclusion would be that it's no longer wanted...

If the buyer does open an Item Not Received case against you make sure that you follow the advice you have already been given with regards to uploading the tracking number to the case.  As you can prove that the item was successfully delivered to the buyer's address you'll win the case.  Neither the buyer nor eBay can hold you responsible for the fact that the person delivering the item left it next to the wheelie bins, thus creating the impression that it had been put out with the rubbish to be disposed of.

[jefftopman]

I had similar case last year, customer ordered item i message him to say it was posted same day and to check the item with the tracking number on the Evri App to ensure a safe delivery.

The buyer then decided knowing the item was coming decided to go away for 10 days, he made no effort to reshedule on the Evri App. On the 3rd delivery attempt Evri left in a safe place and left a card saying where it was. I had notification that parcel was delivered and left feedback. After about 2 weeks he messaged and said parcel had not arrived with no mention that he had 3 cards through his letterbox so i said put in a INR case with eBay. He put in an INR case which he lost because tracking, which had been put on eBay when i produced the posage label showed item as delivered. I did not have to refund and i never heard from the customer again.

No matter what pressure you put on Evri it will make no difference since item had been delivered. I wondered to myself whether or not the claim was genuine. Cant see buyer winning the case.

[vinylscot]

I had a conversation about exactly this with my dustman recently. They are explicitly instructed to check any box left beside a bin, before including it with the rubbish being uplifted, for precisely this reason. It is almost always pretty obvious whether something is an unopened package, or a discarded box.

While mistakes can happen, he said they DO face disciplinary action if it happens, particularly if photos of the delivery show it was clearly delivered, and it is identifiable as a delivery. Obviously, a one-off item could be stolen, but if it happens too often with one operative, it gets noticed. He also said dustmen do not steal items themselves, as the rest of the crew would need to be "in on it", for him to get away with it.

So, it's certainly worth reporting the matter to your council's refuse collection department, just on the off-chance. Although it's unlikely to help in your own case (unless he's done it before), your report will be recorded, and may assist in future cases.

[*vyolla*]

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@oae2021 wrote:

Thanks again. 

I've suggested to the buyer to wait and see what evri do or say....not much I expect. I'll then suggest to the buyer to open up an item not received case where I'll upload the tracking information that should close in my favour. That way I have met my obligations as a decent seller and done all I can my side. 

I read this on a post on this community

"Has your buyer opened an INR case via eBay? If

they have you need to upload the tracking number

to the case - eBay does not do this automatically.

Uploading the tracking number to the case will

close it in your favour. If your buyer hasn't opened

an INR case ask them to do so.

Your buyer can then file a dispute with their

payment provider for not receiving their item and

should do so if/when they lose the eBay Money

Back Guarantee case. This will create a new case

via eBay - according to eBay's payment dispute

seller protections you are protected against being

held liable as you have sufficient proof of delivery.

Your buyer will still receive a refund but their refund

will be funded by eBay rather than yourself."

---

This is excellent advice.

Your buyer will lose an eBay item not received claim, this will be found in your favour, but if they go to their card provider and issue a not received chargeback they'll receive a full refund because that evidence of delivery wouldn't be acceptable to them.

Because the eBay item not received claim has been found in your favour, you won't have to make the refund yourself, or pay the associated £16 admin fee that comes with a chargeback. 

If the buyer doesn't open an eBay item not received claim but goes straight to chargeback then you'll foot the bill for both the refund and the £16 fee.

[johnwash1]

Another explanation could be that the Evri driver fancied the parcel, put it in place, photo, picked it up and walked away.

Though with the increasing number of cameras around, that's a risky one.

[oae2021]

I disagree, when you see a plastic delivery bag with brown tape an a address on that's not been opened and obviously has something in it as it would be heavy when lifted. Also that it was next to rather than in the bin. Along with the growing trend of leaving items in safe places out of sight behind bins etc then no...I wouldn't say its logical that it's no longer wanted 

[oae2021]

Yes risky with dash cameras and ring door bells.

To add extra information the reciever has stated that the phone number they provided along with their address for shipping was an old phone number and that's why they didn't receive a message about the estimated time on their phone.

Following advice given on here I'll wait for evri to respond then I'll direct the buyer to start an INR case.

I'll update this thread accordingly with the results 

[bits_n_bobs_heaven]

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@oae2021 wrote:

So I need a bit of advice please.

I've sent an item via evri tracked and the item has been marked as delivered left in secure location.

From looking at the proof of delivery picture and Google maps I've worked out it was left behind a black wheelie bin and location of where it was left meant that no one would be able to see it if they walked passed the persons house. The only way they would have known it was there is if they had seen it being left there. 

I've looked at the tracking history and it did give the buyer a 1 hour estimated delivery slot along if they were not going to be in.

I've created a case on with evri as a sender and encouraged the buyer to do the same to apply pressure to evri.

As a seller where do i stand if the buyer request a refund? Evri shows it being hidden away prety well. The buyer had information when the delivery would happen. 

If you haven't already done so, put the tracking number on the the sent item. If and when the buyer openes an INR case, the tracking will already be saved and will show delivery regardless of where the deliverer placed the item, safe place or otherwise.

Do not refund the buyer under any circumstance including the buyer requesting/demanding that you refund them, but politely ask them to open an 'item not received case' through eBay.

It's not your responsibility to go chasing where the item might be after it has been recorded as delivered, and in this case, the recorded delivery is complete with photographic proof of delivery.

Evri have delivered the parcel and can proove it, so they will not be entertaining any claim of non-delivery, and neither will eBay.

 

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[ear2fear]

I think the tracking needs to be added to eBay before the parcel is delivered but in this case that has already been done. If the buyer contacts again maybe you should suggest that they fit a camera at the front of their property so they could see exactly what happened to any future parcels that go missing and there won't be any false accusations against seller, courier or dustmen. 

[*knight-rider*]

Personally, i think this practice needs to stop, if the customer isn't in or they can't leave with a neighbour, then they should come back the next day day, because how anyone considers behind a bin on a large open drive a 'safe' place is beyond me!

I appreciate your only trying to help the buyer and to be honest, it's a refreshing thing to see with a seller, but i wouldn't encourage buyers to open cases or yourself. The item has been delivered, you have proof, so you've done your job and i would leave it at that, any issue is with Evri.

[bits_n_bobs_heaven]

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@*knight-rider* wrote:

Personally, i think this practice needs to stop, if the customer isn't in or they can't leave with a neighbour, then they should come back the next day day, because how anyone considers behind a bin on a large open drive a 'safe' place is beyond me!

I appreciate your only trying to help the buyer and to be honest, it's a refreshing thing to see with a seller, but i wouldn't encourage buyers to open cases or yourself. The item has been delivered, you have proof, so you've done your job and i would leave it at that, any issue is with Evri.

---

Whilst I agree to a point regarding delivery, buyers have options to set a safe place for deliveries, which they can change at anytime. I know because I do it when I know I'm going to be out during the alloted delivery slot, and one of the options is behind a wheelie bin which in many cases is far more secure than a parcel being left on the doorstep:-) Personally, never had a problem and once delivery has registered via the App I look to see where it's been placed so I know where to look when I get home.

As I've already stated, Evri will have no interest in a so called missing parcel claim because its been delivered with proof of delivery. So that won't resolve the issue for either the seller & buyer.

It's up to the buyer to open an INR case as the seller can do no more than they already have:-) As the proof of delivery has been recorded, they certainly shouldn't refund under any circumstance.

[*knight-rider*]

'Buyers have options to set a safe place for deliveries, which they can change at anytime.'

That wasn't my point, my point was about the practice itself, or at least what is called a 'safe' place, because as i said, how behind a bin on an open drive in full view of a street is frankly, beyond me. You wouldn't suggest to anyone leaving their car keys or wallet behind a bin, so why do people think it's safe to put parcels there.

I do get what you say that buyers can change their options on where to leave them, but my point is, these options shouldn't be available in the first place, because these issues must surely be more trouble than their worth to the couriers, so it gets left with a nominated neighbour, delivered to an alternative address or they make the 3 attempts they are meant to, or they have to collect it from a sorting office, but it doesn't get left behind a dustbin, just ridiculous!!

[oae2021]

This morning after it had been 3 business days I was able to ask ebay to step in. I provided the description of what the issue was  and submitted the assistance case. Fast forward a few hours and it has been closed in my favour.  It's nice to see that ebay offers protection to both buyers and sellers 

[tressygirl]

Good to hear,  thanks for the update !

[*vyolla*]

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@oae2021 wrote:

This morning after it had been 3 business days I was able to ask ebay to step in. I provided the description of what the issue was  and submitted the assistance case. Fast forward a few hours and it has been closed in my favour.  It's nice to see that ebay offers protection to both buyers and sellers 

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It will be interesting to see if the buyer does either appeal with eBay (recent past cases indicate that buyers are wining eBay appeals when the evidence of delivery is a photo of the package outside) or if they'll issue a not received chargeback, or if they're unaware of either of these and will just write it off.