29-02-2024 6:44 PM
Olympus camera 166409204997 Returns case 5327661781
04-03-2024 9:55 PM
Thanks for that, all very interesting - they must be past three by now I should think !
26-03-2024 10:48 PM
Well, here we are around three weeks later and a few things have occured.....
On 9th March, just prior to submitting a "Request for Final Response" or decision on the matter, I contacted CS by live chat and conversed with Eric before chatting with Alan, a member of the CS Leadership Team. (names changed) It would seem from the conversation at 05.52 and 29 secs. that my complaint was confirmed as legitimate, but it made no difference ! When responses like "our backroom team are looking into it" are given by return message to submission of a report, these replies are automated and in effect NOTHING is being investigated, unless the complainer engages in live chat with an operative and presumably NOT with the annoying Chatbot normally employed. Transcript follows with my chosen title :-
Hi, thank you for contacting eBay Customer Service, my name is Eric. Please allow me a few moments to catch up on your conversation so far.
I can see here that you opened this account 20 years ago, thank you for your loyalty!
How may I assist you today Clive?
Hello there, after having a long drawn out battle with CS regarding a refund from a now closed Return case 5327661781, in which I have been unsuccessful, I am now about to escalate the claim to the UK Financial Ombudsman. Run out of characters now.....
I'm really glad you reached out to us about this. We’re always here to help in these kinds of situations, so let’s see what we can do here!
Do you have the order ID with you? I was unable to locate your case with the Return case ID
yes 04-10734-31631
Thanks so much for that, I appreciate it!
Okay I was able to locate your case, what seems to be the issue with this one Clive?
Well, the record shows the buyer is located in Georgia, Eastern Europe, but gives his address for goods delivery in Finchley Rd. London with a business ref of KW12207. A google search shows this is a freight forwarding company called Kiwi Post.
To use a third party freight forwarding company is ok, but in the event of claiming a refund for goods not as described, any claim is invalid if it comes from somewhere other than the delivery address, as laid down under the money back guarantee.
Thank you so much for providing me with this information, you have been such a big help. I am checking it for you right now
Is it regarding the "Olympus MJU I / 1 35mm Film Point & Shoot AutoFocus Camera with Original Manual"
Yes.
As I can see here, the case has already been resolved/closed by eBay, are you reaching out to appeal the outcome of this case or?
I have been told the window for an appeal is closed, but the facts speak for themselves. When I eventually received the returned package two weeks later than the deadline of 14th December, I found buyers old address labels from the USA !
As you have already been told Clive, Once a case is closed, you have 30 calendar days to appeal that decision.
Having a standard timeframe to appeal allows us to be consistent and fair amongst all our members.
The case was closed on 4th of January therefore you had until 3rd of February to appeal this case.
I've been told that sentence, but if the Ombudsman finds in my favour and it is onwards of the third case in one year, he will charge Ebay £750 for the adjudication, whereas if Ebay refunds in just cause my £67.05, it will save itself some money.
I understand the resolution I've given here is not the one you were expecting, and I know that's disappointing. I have shared all the information I possibly can with you. However, if there's nothing else you'd like to discuss on your account, I'm afraid I will need to end the chat here.
Ok, so I will message Ebay Customer Services for the required "Final Response" in this matter, before escalation to the Ombudsman as I've mentioned. There is no other department to which I should send this request ?
I can transfer you to a manager if you would like to Clive
Yes ok, thanks.
Sure just a moment.
Thanks so much for waiting. I’m going to connect you straight through to a member of our Leadership team here in the chat. I’ve popped notes here on your situation to save you having to repeat everything all over again. Thanks for chatting with me today!
Hi, my name is Alan and I'm part of eBays Customer Service Leadership team. Please allow me a few moments to catch up on your conversation so far.
Great, thanks !
Thanks for allowing me the time to review the messages.
I can see that my colleague above already advised of the 30 day appeal window Clive.
I'm afraid that this appeal window is now closed and we would be unable to review it further.
For future cases, I would recommend contacting us through Phone or Chat if you wish to dispute a buyers protections on a case so we can review it manually.
In a case where Ebay customer services has failed to comply with and apply it's own published policies regarding a refund under the Money back Guarantee, I would think such a deadline is immaterial. Is this not chat ?
When you escalated the return to disagree with the return reason, it was not reviewed by a customer care agent.
The system forced the return through which would be what it is designed to do.
The 30 day appeal window is not immaterial in this situation I'm afraid.
Well, I'm sure the Ombudsman will want to know why published policy was not followed when deciding to give the buyer a refund when he had not complied with the Money back Guarantee requirements.
You would have had to contact us using Phone or Chat to speak directly with an agent Clive.
And we could have reviewed the case manually.
And now we are outside of our 30 day appeal window.
Unfortunately there's no further action we can take on this case but I will credit your final value fee of £8.15 as a courtesy.
You can also report the buyer for making a false claim if you wish and you will be refunded the return label cost within 60 days.
I haven't heard back from you in a while, are you still with me?
Thanks for the offers but I'm a total of £67.05 down on this deal and should not have been charged for what was Ebay's mistake in wrongly applying policy.
It is not considered by eBay to be a mistake Clive.
I have credited back the final value fee today.
You will see this within 24 hours.
The facts in this case would prove otherwise, please tell me where I have got it wrong ?
eBay doesn't review every single case manually Clive, you reported an issue to us through the site and as the buyer opened a not as described return this action will always lead to the return being accepted.
Had you contacted us directly, we may have closed the return down.
I reported it on 24 Nov '23 at 1819 hrs but got nowhere.
That was a Policy Violation report.
And again, we can't review every case manually.
Meaning the system was forced to accept the return.
As advised, we can't appeal this case now due to the time that has passed.
Money Back Guarantee is clear though, that using third party freight forwarding invalidates the claim for not as described. Sellers are not responsible for the condition of goods sent elsewhere from the point of specified delivery. It's listed policy.
Correct, but when the return was approved by eBay as you had escalated the case to us - it then had to go through as normal. We are now outside the 30 day appeal window and will not be reviewing this case again.
As I have provided the resolution available to us multiple times, I will have to end the chat unless you have a new query on a different topic.
Well, you leave me no choice but to report the policy violation to the UK Financial Ombudsman. I will therefore message customer services with the facts and request their "Final Response" as required for the proceedure.
Thank you for contacting eBay today and have a great day!
chat ended by Alan
I did in fact get the £8.15 Final value Fee returned, which should have happened anyway I think.
I then submitted on the same day, a formal request to Alan for a "Final Response" on the matter, quoting the schedule of events with dates and times etc. but I received no response of any kind.
So, on the 18th March a full report was submitted to the Ombudsman and today 26 March, I received a reply from them, saying that eBay have been contacted and put on notice to reply to my request within eight weeks and that I have 6 months from the date of their eventual response in which to escalate (again) to the Ombudsman if I'm not happy.......and so it goes on !
27-03-2024 1:13 AM
My eyes are aching !.
27-03-2024 7:24 AM
Please accept my admiration for your tenancity and patience! I have been incredibly lucky so far that i have never had to argue the odds with e bay over anything but i am sure i would have lost it with the response from those people - not that it sounds like real people at the end of the link. That final response from 'Alan' would have tipped me over the edge....
02-04-2024 5:26 PM
Thank you for the empathy, - it's said that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so I just want to keep it turning until the noise becomes unbearable !
27-04-2024 4:54 PM
Here's the 26th March reply from the Ombudsman which looks promising.......
Our ref | PNX-5074553-Q8N7 |
Your ref |
|
To: Clive333biker |
|
Your complaint about eBay Commerce UK Ltd |
Thanks for getting in touch with us. We’ve contacted eBay Commerce UK Ltd to tell them about your complaint – so they have a chance to put things right for you first.
eBay Commerce UK Ltd should get in touch with you soon. If you need to get in touch with them, their contact details are:
eBay Commerce UK Ltd
Hotham House
1 Heron Square
Richmond upon Thames, Surrey
TW9 1EJ
eBay Commerce UK Ltd should give you their final response to your complaint – in writing – within eight weeks at the most.
At this stage, eBay Commerce UK Ltd should also let you know that you've six months from the date of their response to come back to us if you’re not happy.
We won’t take any further action unless we hear from you again – and I hope eBay Commerce UK Ltd can resolve things for you.
Kind regards
Seetal Pabary | Customer Help | 0800 023 4 567 Financial Ombudsman Service | Exchange Tower, London, E14 9SR |
All would seem to be in order and the fact that the Ombudsman has made contact with eBay on my behalf, suggests that the case has merit and has been taken up, BUT THEN ON 18 APRIL ANOTHER MESSAGE ARRIVES........
Our ref | PNX-5074553-Q8N7 |
Your ref |
|
To : Clive333biker |
|
Your complaint about eBay Commerce UK Ltd |
Kind regards
Seetal Pabary | Customer Help | 0800 023 4 567 Financial Ombudsman Service | Exchange Tower, London, E14 9SR |
Reading this reply, I find it astounding that the Ombudsman can be dictated to in such a way, - for a defendant to tell the prosecutor he has no case and for the prosecutor to then just give up......well it's just pathetic ! It would seem the Ombudsman is a "paper tiger" and out of his or her depth in this case !
Obviously I am now disgusted with the whole process and may as well pack up and go home - as it were !
Thanks for looking !
02-05-2024 5:12 PM
@clive333biker wrote:
eBay has been in contact to let us know that your complaint does not fall under the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service, therefore we won't be able to get involved.
Eh? Since when did the ombudsman allow eBay to dictate which cases were within their jurisdiction or not?
My gut feeling is eBay have given the impression (intentionally or not) to the FOS that you are abroad rather than your buyer. Personally, I'd respond pointing out that you are a UK citizen and your complaint relates to eBay Commerce UK Ltd failing to adhere to their own published policy which has caused you a financial loss. You can complain to the FOS about the customer service you have received from them and even complain to an independent assessor if you're not happy with the way the FOS handles your original complaint against themselves.
I do wonder where it would all end, though!