Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK

Olympus camera 166409204997 Returns case 5327661781

I sold a camera (listed uk buyers only) with a stated serial number, on 31st Oct '23, but it was bought by a buyer in Georgia, Eastern Europe, with a delivery address in Finchley, London. This was of course a shipping company, in order to get around UK buyers only rules.
On 24 Nov '23 I receive a returns request from Georgia, with the goods having arrived allegedly faulty. I disputed this with Ebay, as the goods had travelled outside the UK and I should now NOT be responsible for their condition. Ebay however, sides with the buyer and issues a Returns label, goods to be returned to me by 14 Dec '23. 
 
Goods WERE NOT EVEN SENT by that date, so Ebay closes the buyers Returns request on 14 Dec '23 . 
On 30 Dec '23 the return label is activated in Finchley and on 2 Jan '24 a package arrives when I am away and within 48 Hrs, the buyer has appealed the Returns closure, Ebay agrees and refunds the buyer AT MY EXPENSE. 
 
Upon my return on 5 Dec '24, I open the returns package and find a DIFFERENT CAMERA WITH DIFFERENT SERIAL NUMBER and also missing items that were in the original listing / package I sent. Plainly the shipping company has muddled goods/original suppliers either on the way out or on the way back from Georgia, via opening multiple packages and amalgamating into one large package for onward despatch.
 
I submit a Fraud Report but Ebay stonewalls all my requests and reasons for a refund eg. Wrong Goods returned and Goods received Outside stipulated shipping time limits.   
Ebay customer service says that they allowed the Return request to be re-opened because the buyer was able to provide tracking details before the case was closed on 14 Dec '23. 
Plainly this is UNTRUE, as the returns label serial number proved posting did not take place until TWO WEEKS LATER at 1028hrs on 30 Dec '23 at Greenford Mail Centre !  
Ebay customer services also said that they would not accept any verification from me via photo evidence that the wrong goods had been returned as..quote " due to our platform being completely online, we have no way of verifying the condition the item has been returned to you. " Ritesh C. Ebay customer services 0728hrs 5 Feb '24.
This means I could have had a piece of wood returned to me instead of a different camera and the buyer would still be refunded !
Apparently if I had enhanced seller protection, I could PRETEND the correct camera had been returned but in a lesser condition, upon which I would only be liable for 50% of a refund.
 
It seems the stipulations in the Money Back Guarantee for buyers can be ignored and customer services will still refund them providing something turns up at some point in a returns package on the sellers doorstep !  
To say I'm seething about the whole process is an understatement and Ebay customer services expects me to just suck it up !!! 
I have about 1400 transactions, 100% favourable feedback and more than 19 years loyal membership and it seems to count for nothing. 
I have all correspondence on record if anybody at Ebay can help me with the issue.
I am absolutely disgusted with the way my case has been treated after presenting all the dates and facts to customer services and receiving in reply, only platitudes in very poor grammar and links to regulations that don't really apply. 
The word "condone" is one they do not understand - I received the following passage a couple of times....
 
"I have checked the case details and I want to re confirm that your report was successfully registered and our back end team has already begun a investigation on this. Be assured, appropriate action will be taken on their account. I want to inform you that we totally condone this kind of behaviour on our platform and want the platform to be fair for both buyers and seller's."
Message 1 of 27
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26 REPLIES 26

Re: Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK

Thanks for that, all very interesting - they must be past three by now I should think !

Message 21 of 27
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Re: Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK

Well, here we are around three weeks later and a few things have occured.....

 

On 9th March, just prior to submitting a "Request for Final Response" or decision on the matter, I contacted CS by live chat and conversed with Eric before chatting with Alan, a member of the CS Leadership Team. (names changed)    It would seem from the conversation at 05.52 and 29 secs. that my complaint was confirmed as legitimate, but it made no difference !  When responses like "our backroom team are looking into it" are given by return message to submission of a report, these replies are automated and in effect NOTHING is being investigated, unless the complainer engages in live chat with an operative and presumably NOT with the annoying Chatbot normally employed. Transcript follows with my chosen title :-

 

Discuss a Final Response from Ebay CS before escalating a claim for a refund to the UK Financial Ombudsman.
 
2024-03-09
 
04:58:11 UTC Eric
Hi, thank you for contacting eBay Customer Service, my name is Eric. Please allow me a few moments to catch up on your conversation so far.
04:59:49 UTC Eric
I can see here that you opened this account 20 years ago, thank you for your loyalty!
04:59:52 UTC Eric
How may I assist you today Clive?
05:04:52 UTC clive333biker
Hello there, after having a long drawn out battle with CS regarding a refund from a now closed Return case 5327661781, in which I have been unsuccessful, I am now about to escalate the claim to the UK Financial Ombudsman. Run out of characters now.....
05:06:06 UTC Eric
I'm really glad you reached out to us about this. We’re always here to help in these kinds of situations, so let’s see what we can do here!
05:06:35 UTC Eric
Do you have the order ID with you? I was unable to locate your case with the Return case ID
05:07:12 UTC clive333biker
yes 04-10734-31631
05:07:25 UTC Eric
Thanks so much for that, I appreciate it!
05:10:05 UTC Eric
Okay I was able to locate your case, what seems to be the issue with this one Clive?
05:12:39 UTC clive333biker
Well, the record shows the buyer is located in Georgia, Eastern Europe, but gives his address for goods delivery in Finchley Rd. London with a business ref of KW12207. A google search shows this is a freight forwarding company called Kiwi Post.
05:15:04 UTC clive333biker
To use a third party freight forwarding company is ok, but in the event of claiming a refund for goods not as described, any claim is invalid if it comes from somewhere other than the delivery address, as laid down under the money back guarantee.
05:15:23 UTC Eric
Thank you so much for providing me with this information, you have been such a big help. I am checking it for you right now
05:15:27 UTC Eric
Is it regarding the "Olympus MJU I / 1 35mm Film Point & Shoot AutoFocus Camera with Original Manual"
05:15:39 UTC clive333biker
Yes.
05:16:12 UTC Eric
As I can see here, the case has already been resolved/closed by eBay, are you reaching out to appeal the outcome of this case or?
05:19:49 UTC clive333biker
I have been told the window for an appeal is closed, but the facts speak for themselves. When I eventually received the returned package two weeks later than the deadline of 14th December, I found buyers old address labels from the USA !
05:20:47 UTC Eric
As you have already been told Clive, Once a case is closed, you have 30 calendar days to appeal that decision.
05:20:49 UTC Eric
Having a standard timeframe to appeal allows us to be consistent and fair amongst all our members.
05:21:41 UTC Eric
The case was closed on 4th of January therefore you had until 3rd of February to appeal this case.
05:24:03 UTC clive333biker
I've been told that sentence, but if the Ombudsman finds in my favour and it is onwards of the third case in one year, he will charge Ebay £750 for the adjudication, whereas if Ebay refunds in just cause my £67.05, it will save itself some money.
05:24:22 UTC Eric
I understand the resolution I've given here is not the one you were expecting, and I know that's disappointing. I have shared all the information I possibly can with you. However, if there's nothing else you'd like to discuss on your account, I'm afraid I will need to end the chat here.
05:26:28 UTC clive333biker
Ok, so I will message Ebay Customer Services for the required "Final Response" in this matter, before escalation to the Ombudsman as I've mentioned. There is no other department to which I should send this request ?
05:27:10 UTC Eric
I can transfer you to a manager if you would like to Clive
05:27:28 UTC clive333biker
Yes ok, thanks.
05:27:34 UTC Eric
Sure just a moment.
05:28:33 UTC Eric
Thanks so much for waiting. I’m going to connect you straight through to a member of our Leadership team here in the chat. I’ve popped notes here on your situation to save you having to repeat everything all over again. Thanks for chatting with me today!
05:28:50 UTC Alan
Hi, my name is Alan and I'm part of eBays Customer Service Leadership team. Please allow me a few moments to catch up on your conversation so far.
05:28:51 UTC clive333biker
Great, thanks !
05:29:37 UTC Alan
Thanks for allowing me the time to review the messages.
05:31:10 UTC Alan
I can see that my colleague above already advised of the 30 day appeal window Clive.
05:32:54 UTC Alan
I'm afraid that this appeal window is now closed and we would be unable to review it further.
05:33:31 UTC Alan
For future cases, I would recommend contacting us through Phone or Chat if you wish to dispute a buyers protections on a case so we can review it manually.
05:34:43 UTC clive333biker
In a case where Ebay customer services has failed to comply with and apply it's own published policies regarding a refund under the Money back Guarantee, I would think such a deadline is immaterial. Is this not chat ?
05:35:20 UTC Alan
When you escalated the return to disagree with the return reason, it was not reviewed by a customer care agent.
05:35:37 UTC Alan
The system forced the return through which would be what it is designed to do.
05:35:59 UTC Alan
The 30 day appeal window is not immaterial in this situation I'm afraid.
05:37:43 UTC clive333biker
Well, I'm sure the Ombudsman will want to know why published policy was not followed when deciding to give the buyer a refund when he had not complied with the Money back Guarantee requirements.
05:38:10 UTC Alan
You would have had to contact us using Phone or Chat to speak directly with an agent Clive.
05:38:22 UTC Alan
And we could have reviewed the case manually.
05:38:32 UTC Alan
And now we are outside of our 30 day appeal window.
05:39:45 UTC Alan
Unfortunately there's no further action we can take on this case but I will credit your final value fee of £8.15 as a courtesy.
05:40:05 UTC Alan
You can also report the buyer for making a false claim if you wish and you will be refunded the return label cost within 60 days.
05:43:07 UTC Alan
I haven't heard back from you in a while, are you still with me?
05:43:47 UTC clive333biker
Thanks for the offers but I'm a total of £67.05 down on this deal and should not have been charged for what was Ebay's mistake in wrongly applying policy.
05:44:05 UTC Alan
It is not considered by eBay to be a mistake Clive.
05:44:17 UTC Alan
I have credited back the final value fee today.
05:44:22 UTC Alan
You will see this within 24 hours.
05:45:08 UTC clive333biker
The facts in this case would prove otherwise, please tell me where I have got it wrong ?
05:46:26 UTC Alan
eBay doesn't review every single case manually Clive, you reported an issue to us through the site and as the buyer opened a not as described return this action will always lead to the return being accepted.
05:46:44 UTC Alan
Had you contacted us directly, we may have closed the return down.
05:48:06 UTC clive333biker
I reported it on 24 Nov '23 at 1819 hrs but got nowhere.
05:48:31 UTC clive333biker
That was a Policy Violation report.
05:48:53 UTC Alan
And again, we can't review every case manually.
05:49:04 UTC Alan
Meaning the system was forced to accept the return.
05:49:25 UTC Alan
As advised, we can't appeal this case now due to the time that has passed.
05:51:28 UTC clive333biker
Money Back Guarantee is clear though, that using third party freight forwarding invalidates the claim for not as described. Sellers are not responsible for the condition of goods sent elsewhere from the point of specified delivery. It's listed policy.
05:52:29 UTC Alan
Correct, but when the return was approved by eBay as you had escalated the case to us - it then had to go through as normal. We are now outside the 30 day appeal window and will not be reviewing this case again.
05:52:54 UTC Alan
As I have provided the resolution available to us multiple times, I will have to end the chat unless you have a new query on a different topic.
05:54:43 UTC clive333biker
Well, you leave me no choice but to report the policy violation to the UK Financial Ombudsman. I will therefore message customer services with the facts and request their "Final Response" as required for the proceedure.
05:54:58 UTC Alan
Thank you for contacting eBay today and have a great day!
05:55:11 UTC
chat ended by Alan

 

 

I did in fact get the £8.15 Final value Fee returned, which should have happened anyway I think.

I then submitted on the same day, a formal request to Alan for a "Final Response" on the matter, quoting the schedule of events with dates and times etc. but I received no response of any kind.

 

So, on the 18th March a full report was submitted to the Ombudsman and today 26 March, I received a reply from them, saying that eBay have been contacted and put on notice to reply to my request within eight weeks and that I have 6 months from the date of their eventual response in which to escalate (again) to the Ombudsman if I'm not happy.......and so it goes on !

 

 

 

 

 

 

Message 22 of 27
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Re: Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK

My eyes are aching !.

Message 23 of 27
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Re: Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK

Please accept my admiration for your tenancity and patience!  I have been incredibly lucky so far that i have never had to argue the odds with e bay over anything but i am sure i would have lost it with the response from those people - not that it sounds like real people at the end of the link.    That final response from 'Alan' would have tipped me over the edge....

Message 24 of 27
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Re: Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK

Thank you for the empathy, - it's said that the squeaky wheel gets the grease, so I just want to keep it turning until the noise becomes unbearable !

Message 25 of 27
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Re: Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK

Here's the 26th March reply from the Ombudsman which looks promising.......

 

Our ref

PNX-5074553-Q8N7

Your ref

 

 

 To:  Clive333biker

 

 

Your complaint about eBay Commerce UK Ltd

 

Thanks for getting in touch with us. We’ve contacted eBay Commerce UK Ltd to tell them about your complaint – so they have a chance to put things right for you first.

 

eBay Commerce UK Ltd should get in touch with you soon. If you need to get in touch with them, their contact details are:

eBay Commerce UK Ltd

Hotham House

1 Heron Square

Richmond upon Thames, Surrey

TW9 1EJ

 

Next steps

eBay Commerce UK Ltd should give you their final response to your complaint – in writing – within eight weeks at the most.

At this stage, eBay Commerce UK Ltd should also let you know that you've six months from the date of their response to come back to us if you’re not happy.

We won’t take any further action unless we hear from you again – and I hope eBay Commerce UK Ltd can resolve things for you.

 

 

Kind regards

 

Seetal Pabary | Customer Help | 0800 023 4 567

Financial Ombudsman Service | Exchange Tower, London, E14 9SR

 

 

All would seem to be in order and the fact that the Ombudsman has made contact with eBay on my behalf, suggests that the case has merit and has been taken up,  BUT THEN ON 18 APRIL ANOTHER MESSAGE ARRIVES........

 

 

Our ref

PNX-5074553-Q8N7

Your ref

 

 

 To : Clive333biker

 

 

Your complaint about eBay Commerce UK Ltd

 

eBay has been in contact to let us know that your complaint does not fall under the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service, therefore we won't be able to get involved.

You can use our website, as well as our complaint checker tool to find more information about other organisations that may be able to help you - but they are completely separate from the Financial Ombudsman Service. 

I’m sorry we couldn’t help you on this occasion. Due to the volume of enquiries we receive, we may not be able to discuss this any further if you respond.
 

 

 

Kind regards

 

Seetal Pabary | Customer Help | 0800 023 4 567

Financial Ombudsman Service | Exchange Tower, London, E14 9SR

 

 

Reading this reply, I find it astounding that the Ombudsman can be dictated to in such a way, - for a defendant to tell the prosecutor he has no case and for the prosecutor to then just give up......well it's just pathetic !    It would seem the Ombudsman is a "paper tiger" and out of his or her depth in this case ! 

 

Obviously I am now disgusted with the whole process and may as well pack up and go home - as it were !

 

Thanks for looking !

 

Message 26 of 27
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Re: Buyer returned wrong item from outside UK


@clive333biker wrote:

 

eBay has been in contact to let us know that your complaint does not fall under the jurisdiction of the Financial Ombudsman Service, therefore we won't be able to get involved.

 Eh? Since when did the ombudsman allow eBay to dictate which cases were within their jurisdiction or not?

 

My gut feeling is eBay have given the impression (intentionally or not) to the FOS that you are abroad rather than your buyer. Personally, I'd respond pointing out that you are a UK citizen and your complaint relates to eBay Commerce UK Ltd failing to adhere to their own published policy which has caused you a financial loss. You can complain to the FOS about the customer service you have received from them and even complain to an independent assessor if you're not happy with the way the FOS handles your original complaint against themselves.

 

I do wonder where it would all end, though!   

Give me ambiguity or give me something else.
Message 27 of 27
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