Buyer raises bogus refund claim. eBay chasing me. Buyer reported. How long until resolution?

[byron_gayle]

Garmin Forerunner 30 GPS Running Watch
Date sold 15 Apr 2024
Date buyer paid 15 Apr 2024
Delivery Date 19 Apr 2024
Request amount £25.00
On hold amount £25.00
Held from payouts until the request is complete.

I will start this by saying I just posted another query in which I state in the title.... Waiting over 10 weeks and counting for eBay to acknowledge my complaint and offer a refund..... I dont know how long its supposed to take for eBay to pick up complaints but this example obviously isnt too good. My latest complaint was against a dishonest buyer who purchsed from me recently.... 

On the day the item was delivered (19th April) the buyer raised a fake refund claim. When I read the message related to his refund  request it took me straight to a screen suggesting I had started the process. This was never my intention as I dont accept what he says. Now eBay is chasing me to move his claim forward but I have no intention of doing so because the guy is lying and just a scammer.

His claim was based on two issues. (a) He was unable to swap out the watch strap supplied with the watch for a different one. (b)One of the buttons controlling the watch was faulty and was stuck solid in one position. I explained in my listing that the watch head came apart from the strap and I that secured the strap with superglue. Despite this, the buyer's initial complaint was that he is unable to swap out the straps. Hardly surprising as it been superglued!! No idea what he was expecting but it seems like a poor attempt to manufacture a refund excuse when there really isnt one. He went on to claim one of the 4 function buttons controlling the watch was broken. I used the watch for many years up until the week it was sold and know for certain he is lying about this. I asked him to provide evidence of the faulty button, but unsurprisingly he has been unable to do so. The item I supplied was exactly as described.I went to some lengths to provide a detailed description of the condition of the watch, as well as provding pictures of the front, back and both sides of it so any potential buyer could properly assess the state it was in. I reported the buyer the same day he raised the request (19th April) and am awaiting a response from eBay. As things stand I currently have a bogus half processed return against me. How do I get rid of it? How long should I have to wait for eBay to get back to me with regards to me reporting the buyer? I would really like him removed from the platform.  As stated at the beginning I have another query that I have been waiting over 10 weeks for eBay to respond to so I have no idea what the norm is. 

[tressygirl]

eBay's 30 day MBG,  Money Back Guarantee policy works this way.

If a buyer for whatever reason feels the item is not as described,  they open a case for this, if they are within 3 days of the item's last estimated date for delivery.

These cases are all automated,  no human contact so you doo have to accept the case and fully refund.  Yolu have to do this within 3 days,  if you don't and do nothing the buyer can escalate the case and eBay step in and force the refund.

If you want the item back first,  you pay for that fully tracked return label and refund within 48 hours of receicing the item back.  You do not refund until the item is back with you.

Those are the rigid timescales, stick with them and your seller fees are refunded.  You can always try and appeal a decision for the refund afterwards, this explains how:

https://www.ebay.co.uk/help/selling/manging-returns-refunds/appeal-eBays-decision-return-missing-ite...

@byron_gayle 

[jckl1957]

You seem to think that 'reporting a buyer' is starting a process.

It is not.

If you report another member, for whatever reason, Ebay may take action or may not.  They will not come back to you and tell you what action they have taken.

What is likely to happen here, unless you provide a label and get this item back, is that the buyer will ask Ebay to step in.  At that point, Ebay will possibly tell the buyer to keep the item and refund him from your bank account.

[byron_gayle]

Thanks for your message. Its clear you are seasoned and experienced contributors to the forum.

So let me get this straight. This user is entitled to raise a refund request even though it is bogus and the item is 100% as I described and its a "no Returns" item?

I do not see the logic in that at all. It is very open to abuse as is clearly the case here.

I think my 3 days have passed (he raised it on 19th...) so lets see if he escalates it.

What on earth are the motives of the buyer in your opinion? I have heard of instances where people order clothes online and then return them having worn them to some swanky event.

One this occasion we are dealing with a tatty 10 years old running watch , splattered in superglue.

I repeat that it was delivered exactly as outlined in my detailed listing description. I also ensured I included photos taken from all possibble angles to highlight flaws in its cosmetic condition, yet he wants to return it claiming its faulty when it most certainly is not.

So I go down the road of paying for a label (hopefully to be reimbursed later....)

He gets his money back and I get my watch back.

WHy order it in the first place then? It just makes no sense to me and I would appreciate any thoughts or theories on reasons you may have.

On the face of it , it just seems like a huge waste of time all around. Please enlighten me.

[byron_gayle]

Lol, I am not sure what to think at the moment. This all seems quite surreal tbh.  Ebay seems to operate many policies that make little to no sense to me.

Anyway thanks for your message. So basically what you are saying that is that a user can raise a bogus claim and report an item as defective even though I know he is lying, and eBay sides him despite his obvious nafarious intentions reveled in a number of messages I exchanged with him??

The process as you described it seems open to abuse as appears to be the case here. He as good as told me he way lying in the messages and at one point said "I bet I win" like it was all some big game. 

Yet I am the one who has to fork out for a return label?

That does not sound fair to me at all.

I have come to realise that reporting a user does very little but thanks for confirming it does not start any process.

The 3 days have already passed so I will be interested to see if he escalates.

The guy has practically agreeing with me in our messages when I called him a scammer, yet eBay "will possibly tell the buyer to keep the item and refund him from my bank account" if I dont adhere to their (and by definiton the scammer's.... ) timescales?

What sort of logic or justice is that?

I simply dont get it

[papso22]

Logic and justice?

Neither of the above, it's simply how the rather rigid money back guarantee works to  protect buyers. 

[red_magpie]

What sort of logic or justice is that?

There's no point in expecting logic or justice, except eBay's crushing logic that the want buyers to be happy. In all but name, eBay's money back guarantee allows buyers to invent almost any reason to return almost anything.

When a buyer opens a case, you have to accept the return within three days, and send the buyer a prepaid label to return it. If you fail to do either eBay is liable to enforce a refund, and let the buyer keep the item. Plus you wold forfeit any return of fees and be penalised with an account defect. If the item isn't returned in the condition sold you can appeal, but eBay may simply point out that as they never see the item they can't take sides on this.

If in a moment of madness you ask eBay to step in yourself - if that option still even exists - eBay will take the buyer's word against yours that the item doesn't match the description, and the same will apply as described above.

Every sale here carries a possibility that the buyer will use or abuse eBay's money back guarantee. eBay has set up a separate limited ompany to receive payments, which has to be regulated by the FCA. eBay's money back guarantee is separate, meaning that it is unregulated so there is no right to any independent appeal. eBay has become a very risky place to sell things.

[john1297576]

You ssem to misunderstand whst NO RETURNS means, I suggest you read what it says in SEE DETAILS.

Because you have a no returns policy that means you do not accept CHANGE OF MIND returns, so when a buyer is not happy and wants to return for a refund they invent a reason for a Not As Described case. As ebay never seess what is sent or received, they will almost 100% of the time side with the buyer, which means more expense for the seller in paying for return postsge if they want item returned.

Having a proper return policy, "returns accepted within 14 days, buyer pays return postage" will not prevent dubious claims, but for an honest buyer who has a change of mind and is willing to pay the postage, can save the seller some money.

For any form of return the seller ends up out of pocket, but can be worth trying to reduce the loss.

[byron_gayle]

Yes, rather foolishly I expected logic and justice from the largest online marketplace in the world several times over

A company with over $10 billion in annual turnover...

A company that allegedly processes 2 billion transactions a day.

What a idiot I was to have such lofty expectations!!😊

The more I have read the responses to my posts,the more I have come to realise my faith in eBay protecting both buyers AND sellers is misplaced. So this MBG process exists to protect buyers and fair enough....but what is in place to protect sellers in this situaton.

I never asked to be targetted by the scammer

What really disappoints me most is that there appears to be no process at all that will guarentee intervention by an actual human being. I get that the system only viable and is cost effettive because of computers and AI.... but come on.

Can a company of this stature not hire a few actual human beings in their customer services to pick up on obvious nefarious activity and act accordinly?? 

I really dont think that is much to ask for an organisation of this size

No wonder the scammers are so brazen when there is so little recourse. The dude had literally raised the bogus refund request within an hour of me being notified it had been delivered. He is probably raising refund against another innocent seller as I write, yet eBay clealy has no interest in cleaning up the platform

I just find it all very disappointing.

[byron_gayle]

Although I dont agree with the policy what you have said makes sense and I very much appreciate the clarification 

[byron_gayle]

Thanks for your comments. I have certainly come to realise that eBay's MBG is very much loaded in favour of the buyer at the expense of the seller.

I have been on eBay since 2006 and slowly increased the value of the items I have brought and sold.

I am a watch nerd and I have brougt and sold Omega and Tudor watches in the last couple of years under the protection of the Authenticity Guarentee initiative. Everything went very smoothly and as a result I currently have a Rolex listed for £7,800.

It is my most expensive listing to date, but in reality its the first of many luxury watch sales I was intending to list over the coming months and even years. I am in hurry to sell but had kind of decided I would use eBay rather than the secondary watch market for all future transactions. 

Ironically this this bogus £20 GPS watch refund saga may well lead to a totally differnt direction from me

I have been told to give the scammer a return label and process his refund.

I have no intention of doing so and have been told by other contributors that if I dont adhere to their demands they can tell the user to keep the item and still take the money from me to refund him.

If that happens it will be my last transaction on the platform out of principle. Obvious nefarious activity should not be tolerated yet what you have said almost encourages it.  If this is the the way eBay acts in these situations I simply want any part of it.

I will happily take my luxury watch business to the secondary market. Sure I may not be offerd quite as much as I could make on eBay but this is about principle now.... and there tnh there is not much in it when the huge selling fees are factored in. If it costs me 20 quid and a tatty 10 yearold GPS runnning watch to fully recognise the type of organisation I have been dealing with then so be it. I will consider it a good return in the grand scheme of things.  

eBay may not care about logic and justice as we have both identified...... but I do.