Womens coat woes

[btr.style]

Any other clothing retailer experience this that even when full measurements are provided, the return ratios of women's coats is always really high for sizing issues?

We had almost 100 returns last year. Around 90 of them were women's coats for sizing issues. 

A bit frustrating as we include all measurements in our titles and descriptions, then even spell it out, get a measuring tape and measure a coat they own and knows fits. Compare measurements to ours. It's still the same though with women just not checking (by their own admittance) and it being 'bigger/smaller than expected', then that's us done in for £6 and £100+ we can't 're-earn' due to it counting towards turnover when trying to stay under VAT limits. 

It's a line I'm now doing away with because to sell one women's coat it normally means 2, even 3 returns on it until wahoo someone checked the measurements and it fits. 

A lot of money has been wasted selling women's coats to have it returned when it's such a simple task. I've asked women friends who have tried on some of our coats and when they have checked the measurements, they know if it will fit or not before trying it on. 

Bad day at the office I guess haha. Change is nigh. 

[btr.style]

It never seems logical. If someone has bigger, smaller breasts for example, it shouldn't matter. Their own coat out flat would still equate (i.e small breasted could be 22 inches pit to pit, bigger, 24 inches). 

It's cost us an absolute fortune in wasted postage. Plus when trying to stay under VAT turnover it's a nightmare when 10k of turnover a year is gone in recieving the money and paying it back out for women's coats returns. All due to not measuring their own coat to see if it would fit or not. 

That's me in for a stiff drink or 5 anyway. 

[kidmore_kats]

As a bloke who knows nothing about ladies coats I thought that a "doesn't fit" return means that the buyer pays the return postage? 

[bennotbill]

I was listening to a radio program the other week about returns online selling clothes. It was said that with high street shops returns was 2-3%, while online it was an average of around 30%. The real eye opener was in the category of women's dresses. That was said to be a crazy 70%.

[bravergrace]

Dresses, jeans and coats are difficult to buy without trying them on, and of course some styles are trickier than others.  

Would you buy them in a proper shop with a proper fitting room, without trying them on?  Some people do, some don't.  Some ladies  try each garment in two or three sizes  to see which one fits best because of the variability of cut and fit - not necessarily in the normal measurements provided by the seller, but the waist being in the "wrong place" for someone who is taller or shorter than average, or the sleeves being too tight.  It's unrealistic to expect a perfect fit first time - and a coat that doesn't fit well, is a real waste of money, so it will be sent back.

I try to avoid selling ladies' clothes - but even with men's clothes, there are certain types of garment I don't sell, because they have high return rates.  Most men don't know their hat size or glove size - or when checking sizes, they don't allow for the fact their raincoat may be worn over a suit jacket or a bulky jumper.  

[1956glyn]

I have a "friend" that orders at least 5 or 6 dresses for any night out knowing she will only be keeping one.  Then she has a fashion show amongst other friends for their opinion on each dress.   I think this is so wrong 😞

[insidethe93]

Sorry to learn about the difficulty of selling women's coats. I suspect you're also battling women's frequent optimism about their size.

[tressygirl]

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@insidethe93 wrote:

Sorry to learn about the difficulty of selling women's coats. I suspect you're also battling women's frequent optimism about their size.

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What frequent optimism about size? 

I'm definitely a size 8 ! 

OK,   well  a size 10 /12 . 

Well perhaps  more of a 14 then !

[bravergrace]

Deliberately over-ordering is a really bad habit - from a seller's point of view - but from a buyer's point of view, it makes sense.  And if the buyer is paying return postage, they often don't see the harm in it.  

For sellers, we tend to see online retail as an expansion of mail order - where historically the "delivery within a month of your cheque clearing" deterred people over-ordering large amounts of stuff at the last minute.  

Some buyers seem to regard online retail as a replacement for going into a shop fitting room with half a dozen items to try on and compare.   They think the discards will go straight back on the rail, with no work or loss of value involved.  

They genuinely don't realise that doing the same thing online will cost the seller P&P for each garment returned, plus possibly a loss of value if the item has been over-enthusiastically tried on, needs cleaning or steaming and/or can't be resold as new.

I don't know what the answer is for people selling ladies' clothing, especially lower value stuff where extra postage costs can wipe out the seller's profit.

[insidethe93]

Some sellers on Amazon decide that if you buy then you've bought. They'll only accept a return on the basis of an exchange e.g. if you order Size 10 and return it they'll keep the money and send you a different size (they might even ask which Size first!). And they'll keep on doing that until you've received the correct size, or given up. I noticed it after reading complaints in customer reviews from buyers who hadn't expected it. (It happened to coincide with me stopping buying clothes, to concentrate on my growing sewing hobby of making my own - that's right, I'm a sewer!)

If the above practice is adopted on eBay it could reduce over-ordering, once buyers realised that an order = purchase. But unfortunately, it'd probably see an increase in that pesky minority of buyers who deliberately damage items so they can be returned as "faulty".

[bravergrace]

While I can see the advantage of refusing to accept returns for clothing, or only allowing exchanges, is that legal?

[therenewalworkshopltd]

I'm pretty sure that it isn't legal.

Though to be quite honest, all that would happen if that were to be put into place, is that there would be an increase in "item not as described" returns instead.

Which in turn would increase the cost of returns.

Unfortunately, when selling clothing it really is just one of those things.  Buyers need to be educated as to the cost associated with this kind of thing.  But even then, there are plenty out there who really don't care and will carry on regardless.  So at the end of the day, all you can really do is to price it in to the items your selling.
Of course the buyers doing this don't realise that be doing it, they are actually increasing their overall cost.

But as a means to avoid VAT registration, I'm afraid that I don't have a great deal of sympathy for that.  If your that close, then you might as well just bite the bullet.  It really isn't as expensive as you probably think it is.

[bennotbill]

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@bravergrace wrote:

While I can see the advantage of refusing to accept returns for clothing, or only allowing exchanges, is that legal?

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In that radio program I mentioned earlier there was an interview with a man who runs a clothing website.

Forgot the name of the site it's something along the lines of everythings a fiver. He was asked how do you manage returns as everything is so low priced. He said that they don't get too many returns as he hoped because they were low priced buyers would just pass on/give away articles they didn't like. As the total cost of a return was more than the original price.

He went on to explain that he doesn't make returns easy. They can't be done through the website, buyers have to phone up. Make returns too easy then you encourage returns.

He has a point and this approach seems to be working for them.

[sheba-knows-best]

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@btr.style wrote:

It's cost us an absolute fortune in wasted postage. Plus when trying to stay under VAT turnover it's a nightmare when 10k of turnover a year is gone in recieving the money and paying it back out for women's coats returns. All due to not measuring their own coat to see if it would fit or not. 

That's me in for a stiff drink or 5 anyway. 

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Returns don't affect VAT other than to actually give you a cost (ie what you lost on postage). 

IE

£50 sale = £50 on turnover + £5 post cost.

£50 Return = £50 reduction on turnover + still at least a £5 post cost.

Right? 

[bravergrace]

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@kidmore_kats wrote:

As a bloke who knows nothing about ladies coats I thought that a "doesn't fit" return means that the buyer pays the return postage? 

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Yes, but the seller loses the outgoing postage and packaging cost.

[pureshoresswimwear]

We seem to get returns come back in waves or batches. get a good run will no returns, then get a batch come back all at the same time.

we also include all measurements but i dont think many people actually measure themselves and just see "Size 10" and think they must be ok.

Yes, buyer pays for return but still take a hit on origional postage/packaging costs. surprisingly this does take a fair chunk of profit on our items.

One theory i have thought of is there is not a standard sizing system in clothes depending on the company or country they were manufactured in. If there was a legal requirement that a "size 10" had to meet a certain criteria then all size 10 items should all be the same size, However, how many times have you brought multiple clothes items from different brands in the same size but they are all different. This i think is a problem with the clothing industry.

[1956glyn]

Good post.    I often go to say NEXT and buy a few items.    Some are a 12 and others 14 depending on the cut and style.   My point being that sizes often vary in the same store 😞   

[insidethe93]

M&S seem to have given up on coherent sizing, and some shops feel like they've done the same.

Years ago M&S seemed to become particularly lazy as they started showing photos of their clothes on their website, removing measurements and saying merely "the model is 5 ft 6 inches tall" = "compare our model's height, girth, curviness, weight, length of leg etc to yourself and, well, good luck!"

At least back then M&S had their 'no quibble' returns policy, but nowadays, perhaps deliberately, they've made it difficult not just to return things but to buy anything in-store at all. The Returns Desk is now merely a tilt-out bin, and you're required to package items in a particular way with particular paperwork. No staff about even just to ask what to do. Don't get me started on M&S' new and sometimes unmanned self-checkout machines...

This isn't a just sh*tty experience, this is a Marks & Spencer sh*tty experience.

[tribalgiftsuk]

Excellent post @btr.style and i had a quick look at your listings (you've got some fab garms) and i have a suggestion that might help a little bit. I noticed on your women's coat and jacket listings that you are just listing chest size and total length. I suggest you also consider adding a hip measurement going forward.

The hip and thigh area's are the areas where the coat also needs to fit, not just the bust  seeing that a lot of women are pear shaped, smaller bust than hips and some also have larger butts so i think you need to cover more bases in your descriptions. 

I would also suggest you try to factor in the cost of a return or two  on puffer/quilted style coats and jackets as these are more likely to get returned than flat fabric garments and coats. Puffer and quilted styles are often less flattering on fuller figured women and they might try it on and feel to bulky.  It's hard to tell from a photo how thick it actually is going to be.

[therenewalworkshopltd]

Apart from the fact that they are selling De-Labelled goods with the brand name.

That is very naughty and if the suppliers notices, they are liable to lose their supply.

The whole point of de-labelled, is NOT to sell with the brand name.

“This item has been "de-branded". It's brand new, never worn or used and is in immaculate, direct from the shop condition. Manufacturer branded tags inside and attached to the garment have been removed. Washing label tags which show the product, manufacturer and washing information have been left attached.”