04-01-2015 2:12 PM
When does Democracy become mob rule?
Failing that, when does mob rule become democracy?
Democracy is supposed to be the rule of the people and that's usually decided by the majority supporting the same idea?
I'm particularly thinking about the case of Ched Evans and the statement made by the chairman of Sheffield United that Ched Evans was prevented from playing there by mob rule (otherwise reported as "mob-like behaviour").
Now it seems that Oldham Athletic are considering offering him a place and there's been reports that they won't be swayed by any similar protest. A bit insensitive that isn't it considering the many recent reports concerning Oldham and Rochdale abuses?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
07-01-2015 2:19 PM
07-01-2015 2:22 PM
07-01-2015 3:12 PM - edited 07-01-2015 3:12 PM
Money!
I can only hope the decision bites them where it most hurts.
I guess we'll see some sleaze activity which gets his conviction overturned and the next thing will be him suing for damages.
I reread what he was convicted of, the evidence etc and it has only increased my conviction that the pest should have been banned from football for life.
Another comment on the Beeb website - would it have made a difference? I think the arguments about this being part of his rehabilitation are very pertinent.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30697264
07-01-2015 5:30 PM
@aernethril wrote:Money!
I can only hope the decision bites them where it most hurts.
I guess we'll see some sleaze activity which gets his conviction overturned and the next thing will be him suing for damages.
I reread what he was convicted of, the evidence etc and it has only increased my conviction that the pest should have been banned from football for life.
Another comment on the Beeb website - would it have made a difference? I think the arguments about this being part of his rehabilitation are very pertinent.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-30697264
You could have actually put money on Oldham employing him.
They faffed around far too much before making their 'decision'.
Ker-ching, Ker-ching !
08-01-2015 6:13 AM
If it can be considered that he has served his sentence and should be allowed to carry on doing the work he is best at then no amount of signatures on a petition should make any difference.
We cannot be in a position where a media (including social media) outcry can dictate how much of a punishment a person receives, we have seen it in the past when the Home Secretary could dictate minimum tariffs for life imprisonment and sentences could vary for purely political reasons.
Where Oldham's fans are concerned, if they don't approve, they can express that disapproval by not attending matches, nothing wrong with that.
08-01-2015 10:03 AM
08-01-2015 11:08 AM
08-01-2015 11:09 AM
08-01-2015 11:35 AM - edited 08-01-2015 11:37 AM
08-01-2015 1:09 PM
@bankhaunter wrote:
Where Oldham's fans are concerned, if they don't approve, they can express that disapproval by not attending matches, nothing wrong with that.
From your lips to God's ears, but can you really see that happening, because I can't ? Football fanatics would go to watch Hitler playing, if he was wearing a football shirt and a pair of shorts.
08-01-2015 1:50 PM
@bankhaunter wrote:If it can be considered that he has served his sentence and should be allowed to carry on doing the work he is best at then no amount of signatures on a petition should make any difference.
We cannot be in a position where a media (including social media) outcry can dictate how much of a punishment a person receives, we have seen it in the past when the Home Secretary could dictate minimum tariffs for life imprisonment and sentences could vary for purely political reasons.
Where Oldham's fans are concerned, if they don't approve, they can express that disapproval by not attending matches, nothing wrong with that.
Except that he has only served part of his sentance and is out on parole, and I don't see it as social media determining how much punishment he receives.
Let's put it into another context, if a tv presenter had been similarly found guilty and sent down, and been released, would they expect to just pick up the pieces and be welcome back into the fold? I think not.
Would that person even have had their wages paid whilst inside? I very much doubt it - any contract would have been terminated.
This person has not gone on to protest his innocence and attempt to clear his name in a decent and civilised way, he has done so by using social media, with huge financial backing to attempt to coerce others into supporting him, selling his story to the press, and even it can be argued, condoning the hounding of the victim who, if nothing else, he has by any sense of the facts, taken full advantage of and continues to do so.
I'd like to pose some questions that obviously no-one can answer, but it's always skirted around - what happened to those phone videos that were taken by the friends who were permitted to watch this? Did the victim consent to that? How can the victim ever know who has those videos and when it could all come back to haunt her?
Evans has been the architect of all this angst over and over again because, whether anyone wants to accept it or not, he has no intention of even considering that what he did was wrong on so many counts.
And all this rubbish that's going around the media and social sites about he needs to be rehabilitated back into football because that's his 'job', I go back to the TV presenter - that would have been their job too but they forfeit the right to just go back into the public eye because they demand it.
And - has anyone asked the other team players if they actually want to play with him in their team?
Let him continue to serve his parole, in another way that rehabilitates him back into society and if he cannot or will not see what he did that was so wrong, then let him stay out of the public eye for good.
Add another dimension - all sports professionals have a limited 'job' in sport - eventually they have to find something else anyway. How many companies would like to have him on their board as a director? Would any tv company take him on as a sports presenter?
Could he ever get a job coaching young footballers - would you want your child being influenced by him?
If and when he can show some remorse and feeling for the victim, maybe then he could be accepted back into football without further controversy.
08-01-2015 1:51 PM
@tommy.irene wrote:
http://www1.skysports.com/football/news/11095/9636345/sky-source-oldham-deal-to-sign-ched-evans-is-o... ..........................................................................................................................................................................................The news has so far come from just one Sky Sports News HQ source and the club are being contacted for clarification. More to follow...
It's in the mainstream press now.
08-01-2015 1:54 PM
Well, that's that. It's all off. He's not going to Oldham Athletic.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
08-01-2015 2:00 PM - edited 08-01-2015 2:01 PM
08-01-2015 2:40 PM
I hope the police catch the person/persons who threatened to commit the same act to a member of the club's family. They are no better than the man they have prevented Oldham from signing.
08-01-2015 2:49 PM
Too little, too late - just more cynical manipulation because he's not getting his own way. He's still distanced himself from his actions - it was the effect of the night. He's still twisting words too.
He apologises to everyone else first and the 'woman' last no matter how he's phrased it.
No apology for the continued effects as a result of his family and supports behaviour, just only now because he has not been accepted by OA does he condemn the 'trolls' - way too late.
Evans said in a statement: 'Upon legal advice, I was told not to discuss the events in question. This silence has been misinterpreted as arrogance and I would like to state that this could not be further from the truth.
Errr - wasn't his story in the Times this weekend?
He's got another club in the offing and they've told him to issue some kind of apology so I'd expect to see him signed somewhere else before too long.
But this also is an indication where a huge part of the problem lies
Chairman Simon Corney said he was willing to lose money after a string of sponsors pulled out of the club because 'you have to stick to your principles'.
He also warned critics, including the 60,000 people who have signed a petition opposing the deal, they need to 'keep their views in check'
Did the guy come out and warn the supporters who hounded the victim to keep themselves in check?
No.
The only concern is that they are all allowed to continue doing what they want to do without any consideration for how this affects others, the wider issues, society as a whole. We are told to shut up - and that clearly shows that they want the greater public muzzled so the 'big boys' can continue exactly as they please.
08-01-2015 3:12 PM
Except that he has only served part of his sentance and is out on parole, and I don't see it as social media determining how much punishment he receives.
It could determine whether a person has a job for the next two and a half years or is on benefit, I am talking about a principle applying to anybody not a particular individual.
Let's put it into another context, if a tv presenter had been similarly found guilty and sent down, and been released, would they expect to just pick up the pieces and be welcome back into the fold? I think not.
A possible employer can decide if they want to employ someone or not depending on how they think it might affect them, Oldham can do that.
Add another dimension - all sports professionals have a limited 'job' in sport - eventually they have to find something else anyway. How many companies would like to have him on their board as a director? Would any tv company take him on as a sports presenter?
Again that's up to them, though I would say his chances are already severely dented, the crime will not be forgotten.
I hold no brief for the man and if the general rule was that no one convicted of such a crime should go back to being in the public eye whilst on licence, then so be it, I just don't think that it should vary according to the amount of publicity that can be whipped up on either side.
08-01-2015 3:29 PM
bankhaunter wrote:
I hold no brief for the man and if the general rule was that no one convicted of such a crime should go back to being in the public eye whilst on licence, then so be it, I just don't think that it should vary according to the amount of publicity that can be whipped up on either side.
For me it comes back to the issue that if he'd dealt with his appeal and his return to whatever job was felt appropriate (and he must surely have a probation officer who is responsible for him) in a low profile, sensitive manner, then it is extremely unlikely that there would have been any public outcry.
It is is own fault - he's come out of prison, with no remorse, sold his story, been happy for the website to be set up and shouting his innocence, failed to publicly take his 'supporters' to task for continued harassment of the victim and been determined to pick up his life in a very public way.
To simply say that it's up to OA supporters to vote with their feet doesn't work and never will. The OA board even ignored the comments from their own club manager initially.
In principle, I agree that it is dangerous to allow public fervour to determine legal outcomes. But even so, I still think that if corporations, businesses, organisations take decisions which are felt to be so very wrong by so man people, then someone needs to listen and if the only way that people can protest is by social media, then that's the way it will be.
The victim has no voice in what the outcome will be for an offender to return to pick up their life. They live with the consequences for ever and that is where there seems to be no way that society has managed to get a balance on this.
08-01-2015 3:43 PM
.. During yesterday's sentencing, Judge McColgan said the footage depicted "the most appalling acts of degradation of a young woman". Ms McLeod said: "I have been left with horrific mental scars and I am still getting medical treatment 18 months on. "Those four that attacked me are sick in the head. I believe I was spiked with drugs and the attack on me by those scumbags was pre-planned. I have been left with horrific mental scars. "I had to leave Ballymena afterwards and I'm too scared to go back. Those four will never know or understand the damage they did to me."
@tommy.irene wrote:
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/horrific-assault-on-lesley-mc...
08-01-2015 5:21 PM
It is is own fault - he's come out of prison, with no remorse, sold his story, been happy for the website to be set up and shouting his innocence, failed to publicly take his 'supporters' to task for continued harassment of the victim and been determined to pick up his life in a very public way.
Something which I suspect will rebound on him in the future, he has ensured the affair is never forgotten.
To simply say that it's up to OA supporters to vote with their feet doesn't work and never will. The OA board even ignored the comments from their own club manager initially.
The supporters are the ones with the real power and are directly involved however as suggested earlier it is indeed unlikely many will really care.