The Final Frontier

[cee-dee]

Space. There's  lot of it and that's only what we can see (so far).

These scientific types say they're seeing "so far back in time" (to the beginning of the universe?) that I wonder if some things have really been thought through?

We (OK, the scientific types) can see billions of Galaxies and trillions of stars and they're looking for Earth-like planets but ain't definitely found one yet. Yes, they've found some in the Goldilocks-zone near stars but they've also found some really strange Planets along with some Hellish places too.

Along with those, they've found some orphan Planets wandering through space which they conclude "must" have been flung out of their Solar system, possibly by a sling-shot from a large Planet in the same system but they don't have much to say about the fact that "an object, when propelled by a force will continue in the direction of that force until acted upon by another force." Simply put, if that orphan Planet was flung out, it must still be travelling the same speed as when it was flung out. Where's it going? Any heading our way?

There's other people maintaining a listening watch in case there's a radio signal coming from "somewhere out there". Well, if it's "come a long way", it'll have taken a long time to get here and the place from whence it came may no longer be there so there's no point in replying?

They're looking for life like us? Well, on the balance of probabilities given the number of stars we know about, there should be life "out there" but why should it be like us? We've found weird life on this planet in weird places so life "out there" could be "weird" (to us) too? Thing is, we'd appear to be weird to them too?

[cee-dee]

Over the years, I've pointed that out umpteen times but those who wish to believe in alien craft in our skies are having none of it.

If we can get pics of Pluto from a craft thousands of miles away from that planet, any aliens capable of Space travel would be able to do much better and when they see all the trouble here, they'll clear off and not risk meeting us.

[bankhaunter]

The problems and liklihood of beings from one planet observing those of another, can be highlighted by the fact that Voyager 1 has been travelling for 37 years and has only just passed into interstellar space.

[cee-dee]

I suppose the answer to that would be that "they" might have embarked on a mission a very long time ago?

[tommy.irene]

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@cee-dee wrote:

I suppose the answer to that would be that "they" might have embarked on a mission a very long time ago?

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Or they have faster ways to travel..37 years could be an hour to them..

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@cee-dee wrote:

I suppose the answer to that would be that "they" might have embarked on a mission a very long time ago?

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And would be expecting to see dinosaurs!

[cee-dee]

Nope.

Let us for a moment say that some form of intelligent life had mastered Space travel? Had they done that, they'd also know that Stars come and go along with their associated Planets. They'd therefore know that the type of Stars that have a long life also have the possibility of having Planets at the critical distance from the parent Star where life could form and possibly evolve in to "intelligent" life.

They'd be prepared to see (at some distance) all forms of life through to the intelligent form which would be the same as them which might be vastly different to us because we, now might represent what "they" looked like a long time ago in their past.

Long, long before they got anywhere near our Planet they'd know that we were here because we've been using radio for over 100 years and radio signals don't "just" go round our Planet, some leave our skies to go out in to the great unknown.

Simply put, radio signals travel at the speed of light so some signals, although weak will have gone a looooooong way so "they" would have been able to detect them far out in to Space.

If "they" are watching us, it'll not be from buzzing around in our skies.

[joamur_gosof]

not buzzing around in the sky unless they are micro life and have been here all the while manipulating the easiest of creatures on said given planet (monkey here) into creatures that can do their scentific space travel experiments that they alone have conquered but like a laugh watching others trying to do the same even though they are monkey's with no chance .

The truth is indeed......somewhere 😄

[mustard-tree]

Or perhaps, while observing from afar, they choose not to make contact, as we are technologically inferior to them.

They believe that our planet should evolve and technology advance at its own pace, and not be affected by anything advanced.

Along the lines of the fictional Prime Directive described in Star Trek.

[joamur_gosof]

What if's are great 🙂

I am waiting for the next breakthrough in telescopes so we can see just how far away everyone with an ounce of sense moved away 

[joamur_gosof]

http://www.kiroastro.com/writings/perspective.html

[cee-dee]

In the vastness of Space, we can see (or detect) some amazing things but for life as we know it to form on a Planet, what's required?

Here's a few things, can you think of any others?

First requirement (after the "right" sort of relatively stable, long-lived Star and a Solar system) is that the Planet is in the Goldilocks zone, the "right" distance from it's Star so that it's not too hot, not too cold.

The Planet should rotate and have a relatively stable (preferably slightly elliptical, tilted) orbit around the Star.

It should have, over time acquired water and an atmosphere.

It should have a Moon to provide tides.

It should have a strong magnetic field.

It should be in a relatively "safe" place in it's Galaxy well away from "dangerous" Stars.

It should be part of a Solar system with some larger Planets to help protect or deflect collisions.

That's quite a list really and without some of them, we couldn't live but I suppose that's not to say other forms of life couldn't exist but would they be "intelligent"?

[bankhaunter]

Why not, could it not be that intelligence could evolve if a particular group of creatures were able to communicate the results of each one's individual experience and thus they could share ideas and their joint knowledge would increase each generation adding to it, there really could be talking intelligent snakes although I suppose hands would be useful.

Also what if at the start of evolution things took a slightly different course, animals might have six legs instead of four, six might be needed to overcome a greater gravitational force.

Nature abhors a vacuum so life could exist in a vast range of conditions.

[cee-dee]

It depends on how you define "intelligence"?

Would life be classed as "intelligent" if it had no limbs to maniputate or construct "things"?

A Hen "talks" (to other Hens) and is able to construct a nest so is a Hen "intelligent"? Other birds communicate with each other, perform quite intricate mating rituals and construct complicated nests so are they "intelligent"?

The thing is, our form of "intelligent" life can manipulate rocks, can harness fire and have been able to do so for thousands of years. Our "modern" form of life can manipulate and construct many things from many different materials so if modern man met ancient man from, let's say only 500 years ago would modern man regard him as "intelligent" and would ancient man regard modern man as some sort of alien super-being?

[bankhaunter]

Perhaps intelligent life in the form of a snake was probably a bad example.

We know crows can make and use tools and it appears each crow has to work it out independently but what if they could teach their young how to do it and those young could learn additional skills to add and pass down to their young.

Could it not be that intelligence could evolve as much as the creatures needed it to in order to overcome general difficulties the species met, it could also be affected by pure curiosity.

Plus of course what we think of as being intelligent may not be that of another race of beings, as Douglas Adams wrote about man and dolphins, as you say you would need to define it.

“For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much—the wheel, New York, wars and so on—whilst all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man—for precisely the same reasons.”

[joamur_gosof]

I think ancient mans first question would be ''why have you ruined everything'' and ''why has tony blair not been decapitated yet '' 

But back to topic ,

Good question that 'how do you define intelligence' If life exists in other parts of the universe (and no doubt it will)  We can assume it will be exactly as ours is,because the universe created this so this is what it creates .

Our intelligence as bank said is an accumulation of time share,so the only way the rest of life in the universe can be bracketed into a 'how intelligent' would be the time scale they existed.

Animal to thinker ...thinker to ?  planet hopper or extinct ? 

[joamur_gosof]

On 'what does a planet need to hold a life form' well as we know life aka water babies you have it covered except what makes the water in the atmosphere...was it as they say the big bang ,which if so ,even though its in the right place the planets keeping it safe from collision must need to fail at some point to let whallop happen ..which means its a touch and go kind of thing as if too big a whallop its all over and too small it never began.

Sooo an element of luck or precision must also be needed.

If big bang didnt do it then the possibilities are high for life elsewhere if it did do it the element of chance could actually mean we are on our own.

Best way to see for real is build the spaceship (they have them)  fill it with two of all life on the planet (read about it somewhere) send it into deep space (one way ticket) If it eventually crashes on a planet (in the zone) spweing urgh bacteria all over the place ..wait for a right sized bang and see if it works. 

If it does 'EUREKA' if it doesn't it wasnt like that 😄

[cee-dee]

Water = two atoms of Hydrogen and one atom of Oxygen sooooooooooooooo there's lotsa Hydrogen "out in Space" but was the extra, abundant Oxygen on Earth created here by the plants? Soooooo, did the water come here either by 1/ a watery Planet crashing in to Earth, 2/ it came via Comets/asteroids (where did they get the water from?) or 3/ the extra Oxygen created by plants then combined with the Hydrogen already here to make water?

Going back to intelligence, there are levels of intelligence. Which species demonstrates the highest level of intelligence and for life on Earth it's not Dolphins! What can Dolphins construct? Nothing?

For their part of the World, Dolphins are intelligent but as far as walking around, climbing mountains/trees, building/making things, Dolphins have no intelligence?

If aliens from "out there" came here only 150 years ago, what would they think of "us"? That we were still primitives? What would we have thought if an aircraft of 2015 had somehow landed on a WW1 airfield? Would we have thought the pilot was some sort of super-human and his craft something from science fiction?

The thing is, if we did happen upon a race of aliens from "out there", they would only need to be a few years behind us or a few years ahead of us (technologically speaking) for their perception of us and our peception of them to be vastly different depending upon who was the most advanced.

[joamur_gosof]

As  I understand it ,the hydrogen was here (everywhere as  you say) the oxygen was here ( you say  created by plants) but  where did the plants come from ? they are life are they not and they are not around without ...drum roll...water and vica versa if oxygen /hydrogen makes water..the whallop brought the )whatever to the surface ? with it ? to plant the plant that made the plant. big bang theory.

Soooo  space travel and life in the form of micro whatsits ,the big (well little ) 3 terias  caused it all ...that  means the micro whatsits are out there in here but for it to create this messy ball needs an element of luck ,timeing ,temperature etc...ie if it happened to venus nowt would happen as right planet type same age and size as us but tooooo ruddy hot for micro whatsit space travellers  or indeed inhabitants to grow push enough oxygen into the atmosphere to get the drip affect which would cool the place a tad causing steam to rise drip rise and become us by allowing themselves to survive.A dodgy game of chance ,dont you agree ?

Intelligence is only measured on human language level of what human language says it is...so in the dolphin statement of banks ,its also true they are more intelligent in their language..and they don'tcare if we are not intellegent enough to understand that ...

.I think they have a point as I still dont understand humans from other parts of the world (or myself) whereas they all understand each other and can jump really high.

[joamur_gosof]

change 'allowing themselves to survive'  to evolve

[cee-dee]

There was some Oxygen here, what created the abundant Oxygen was plant life which takes in Carbon Dioxide and puts out Oxygen.