Sir Jimmy Saville

[thecollectorssurplus]

No thread about this on here, so I thought I'd start one. 

My starter for ten is this: Okay, I'm not saying anybody is making anything up, but why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff? And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation that was spotless and upsetting his grieving family even further. Seems basically wrong to me. Why does someone always have to bring down our heroes and role models? They should have done what they're doing now ten years ago or not at all if you ask me.

Nick

[tommy.irene]

Even if they do leave the BBC they will get big pensions worth thousands..

[5129frederick]

Alga #96. 

All the dirt be swept back under the carpet?  No, but why wait until a man is dead before coming out with all this apparent smut about him?  There's no DNA, so there's nothing to stop half the country jumping on the bandwagon and coming out with all these fanciful compensation claims. 

I'm not saying he was perfect - everybody has skeletons in the closet, including me, but a heck of a lot of these accusations/allegations are being levied against Jimmy Savile a second and third time round.  We've heard it all before.  There is even this offensive, and I mean REALLY OFFENSIVE insinuation that because he access to the mortuary, he might even have had necrophilliac tendencies i.e. that he was "turned on" by the sight of a dead body.  On that basis, I only thank God he didn't work in the local kennels otherwise more rubbishy, unprovable insinuations could be brought up on that axis too! 

OK, maybe he did have relationships with underage girls.  But what about Andy Warhol, Woody Allen, Mick Jagger et al?  Let's try using a modicom of common sense before banding all these stories about.

[ilove2patch]

He didn't have 'relationships' he assaulted them.:|

[joe_bloggs*]

It looks like MP Tom Watson has opened Pandora's Box

[the*old*sheep*herder]

The allegations about Savile have been made over many decades, by many complainants, so its not 'just now'

The stories for example about the Jersey care home have been known of for many years, only recently have successful prosecutions been  brought including  rape convictions against former staff there

As far as the media and in particular the tabloids are concerned you would have to ask them, why they failed to publish, as I doubt few if any, weren't aware.

A former Mirror Editor said he had been approached by different individuals with the same allegations that are being made now,  took legal advice, and didn't run the story, though as he said, as a journalist, he believed the women's stories, That probably broadly sums up the tabloids position in general.

Any story would be spiked and litigation would follow and they likely felt it was impossible getting past the image Savile worked so hard at to cover himself and his abuse 

Far as the CPS and various Police Authorities are concerned it may  amount to the same, in that they have to consider the chances of a successful prosecution, in reality, not only on the evidence but on the chances of a jury convicting, since most if not all jurors would know of Savile

He was a tireless self-promoter of himself, and as several have said outright and by implication, his efforts made him almost untouchable, and his self promotion not only provided a lucrative career,they allowed him a shield to abuse under, on an unprecedented scale.

I think it's likely he calculated nobody would get even a majority verdict to convict him, and given the nature of the offences and his victims, I think the CPS and PA came to the same conclusion

It appears many in senior positions were aware of some of the allegations.  He didn't make that much effort to cover what he was doing, possibly because he felt he was  untouchable, he even mentions his activities  in his autobiography I understand

I don't know the extent of his interests, apart from reports that some victims ages were put as low as 10, but there is an interview by an elderly former nurse at LGI who was on a trolley after a spinal op who claims she witnessed Savile assaulting a patient who was unable to move and had possibly just come out of  Neurosurgery  and said she reported it at the time, and is a very credible witness

[tommy.irene]

The Police are looking at 300 complaints..

[ilove2patch]

Where did Saville's wealth go when he died? 

[mitzigirl_123]

Frederick:

Just try and imagine for one moment that you are once again a 7, 8 or 9 year old.   You go into a hospital or a studio and meet a well known and respected celebrity and during that process he has his hands all over you touching you inappropriately that you know is wrong.

You feel uncomfortable.  You mention the experience to someone say, your parents or A. N. Other.  They don't believe you in fact, whoever you mention it to doesn't believe you.

How do you think you would you cope with that? 

You may happen to be a child that is capable of brushing off an incident like that never to be troubled by it in adult life - but what if you were like a lot of the people who are coming forward now who, as the years rolled on, witnessed the assailant’s celebrity status grow and grow. 

You, are now adult and more aware through the media (or someone you know) how hard it is to prove rape, sexual assault or other indecent acts.  Do you think this is why those affected waited until after the man had died and when he did felt an overwhelming sense of relief giving them the courage and vocabulary to express themselves now at an age where they would be taken seriously.

Yes there will be people jumping on the bandwagon, but this will be the minority as you find with all these kind of cases.  The majority of the claims appear to be made by genuine adults still trapped in their childhood and haunted by their experiences by a man called Jimmy Savile.

Nobody should or could defend his actions - I personally wish he was still alive to face his adoring crowds and account for himself instead he went to his death a happy man and hailed as a hero.

I just hope that those affected by his obscene actions can now feel at peace with themselves knowing that this man can no longer hurt them or any other children.

[ilove2patch]

Very well put Mitzi.:-)

[vamo48]

The woman who claimed he was her father has gone quiet.

[tommy.irene]

The woman who claimed he was her father has gone quiet.

The Lawers will have told her to keep quiet as she could be next of kin..

[*forum*decorum*]

#107

Very good post Mitzi:-x

But you can all rest assured, Jimmy Savile and anyone else involved have not by any means got away with it. It has most definitely not gone unnoticed.

They will be brought to account for their actions.;-)

[5129frederick]

Yes, Mitzi, you have, of course, raised some interesting points.  Thus said, though, providing the "indecent assault" were not earth shattering, many of the kids will indeed just have brushed it off as him being "a dirty old man" and would then be very wary of being approached by him again.  It doesn't just happen in hospitals, you know.  I'm an ex boarding school boy, and there's "one of those" in almost every school.  As boys we talked together about the staff and teachers, and word soon got round who it was safe and not safe to be in the company of.  We actually felt quite sorry for one character, because it was obvious his mind was gone.  He was, on the whole, quite a nice bloke, but you made damn certain you were never left alone with him.  As boys in the dormitory we automatically compared ourselves with one another, but it certainly didn't affect your adult life, and where one person blamed Jimmy Savile's "indescretion" for the breakup of his own marriage ten years later, I say that is absolute bunkom.  You get over these things.  I used to avoid public conveniences like the plague because you'd always have at least one person who'd smile at you.  As I said, VERY few normal boys are permenantly emotionally affected.

[Anonymous]

Fred, I don't know what you mean with "normal boys" really......:|

[algasmoon]

Its a bit worrying Fred that you think its all kind of 'ok' has this story and the news brought things to mind that maybe you would rather forget? I really dont mean that in a nasty or offensive way so please dont take it like that but sometimes a nerve is sensed to have been twanged. Permanent emotional damage as you put it, is often not obvious even to the person damaged. It can be outbursts of anger, or subconsciously there but the mind just wont access the reason for self preservation reasons. Oftentimes people have a habit whether drink or drugs that is the only outward vent for an inner turmoil that they only realise they have during counselling or suchlike.  Just because outwardly you dont have experience of anyone being emotionally damaged doesnt mean that they were not.  Hope you get what Im saying, Im not having a go Im just saying your take on it is somewhat puzzling. 

Not even a close friend of relative has come out saying that all this abuse was 'ok'

[al**bear]

Members of Saviles family are now coming forward

nieces etc

[ilove2patch]

I can assure you it can well affect your future relationships & quite understand why that woman's marriage broke down because of her abuse. Can I ask if you have any daughters Frederick? How would you feel if they had suffered abuse from a 'dirty old man'?

[gill1590]

As a psychotherapist I have observed that a major part of the damage of sexual abuse is the way the abused feels his/herself cut off from the rest of the family and society. I don't believe that there are victims who are not harmed in some way. Even if it is just minor damage to self esteem. I have also seen families break up because of the underlying damage done so that claim is definitely not bunkum.

[lizmcloughlin2001]

My best friend has a daughter who, they found out when she was 16, had been abused by her Step Granddad for some years.

She only told them after he died so nothing could be done.

She has suffered all of her life....she is now almost 40...

She used to self harm...cutting herself, pulling her hair out...

She took drugs for a while...moved to London....ended up in Holloway for 6 months for arson....

She has been in and out of mental hospitals for years now and is still on lots of medication otherwise she goes off the rails again.

She now lives with her parents but never goes anyway where there will be other people....no parties/weddings/celebrations for her...no friends...

Don't tell me that victims can laugh it off and just get on with life.

[pillarboxred]

 How would you feel if they had suffered abuse from a 'dirty old man'?

I wonder whether some of the silence of victims and associates was not to do with him, long ago, not being a "dirty old man", but a successful and randy young man, a "party animal", "life and soul of the party"? Nightclubs this minute, while I type, will be full of young girls, many underage with fake IDs and makeup, chasing and chased by wealthy fellows in their twenties with flash cars and designer clothes. This is an old story, an old dirty story, and sad, but it is not simply about a "dirty old man".