Sir Jimmy Saville

[thecollectorssurplus]

No thread about this on here, so I thought I'd start one. 

My starter for ten is this: Okay, I'm not saying anybody is making anything up, but why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff? And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation that was spotless and upsetting his grieving family even further. Seems basically wrong to me. Why does someone always have to bring down our heroes and role models? They should have done what they're doing now ten years ago or not at all if you ask me.

Nick

[joe_bloggs*]

I never thought I'd say this but well done to the daily mail,most of the rest of the media appear to be very slow,or even worse deliberately not reporting these events.

As someone quoted on another blog i was reading: Fiat justitia ruat caelum (Let justice be done though the heavens fall)

[tommy.irene]

Coronation Street star Michael Le Vell charged with 19 child sex offences - including rapeLe Vell who plays Kevin Webster has been charged with 19 offencesHe was first arrested and questioned by police in September 2011The charges include raping a child and sexual activity with a child

Coronation Street star Michael Le Vell has been charged with 19 child sex offences, including rape.

Le Vell, 48, who plays mechanic Kevin Webster in the ITV1 soap, was originally arrested and questioned in September 2011 over child sex allegations, but no charges were brought.

But Greater Manchester Police confirmed late last night that Le Vell, real name Michael Turner, will appear in court in two weeks time.

The charges relate to offences between 2001 and 2010, police said.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2278929/Coronation-Street-star-Michael-Le-Vell-charged-19-ch...

[geographically*challenged]

Guilty till proven innocent.

The only one who knows for certain is the person who is GUILTY.

I personlaly feel the GOD who know who are guilty and  will deal with them when they die. 

They will be before him repenting their sins and GOD will decide if they are guilty and deal with them.

[**forum-decorum**]

The only one who knows for certain is the person who is GUILTY.

I personlaly feel the GOD who know who are guilty and  will deal with them when they die. 

They will be before him repenting their sins and GOD will decide if they are guilty and deal with them.

Very well put GC,  I agree with you God sees all.:-x

[geographically*challenged]

Thanx for your reply i.wanna.sell.bargains 🙂

Im pleased to see somebody arees with my way of thnking.:)

[mitzigirl_123]

Very well put GC,  I agree with you God sees all.:-x

Hello!?

Can we please get back to reality here on every day planet earth! 

Do either of you have children?

We are talking about a "man", "Jimmy Saville" who sexually tampered and sexually interfered with under age and adolescent children as young as 7 years old and did this over a period of 20 years!

If the God you refer to "sees all" and is the ultimate arbiter in this scenario, I wonder what advice or sentence would be for one of his "fallen disciples" - will he forgive them if the "dead person" repents and if so, how does this make it an acceptable apology to the "living"?

What an earth are you talking about?

You are saying that this God "sees all" and Jimmy Saville's penance will be in the "after life" along with all the other freaks of nature who have spent a lifetime of sexually abusing under age girls and boys and babies!  - WHAT ABOUT THE LIVING? The here and now!  When and how do they get their explanation of events?  All will all be revealed when they die?

What a cop out, what a load of utter convenient tripe to cover up for a paedophile!

[joe_bloggs*]

You know,the more i see these so called celebrities being thrown to the wolves (and rightly so if guilty) the more i,m convinced that this is a massive smokescreen to protect those higher up the pecking order who rule over us in the establishment,Cyril Smith the dead liberal MP was protected by the establishment working through special branch and MI5,some people might think this sounds like a conspiracy theory,and that this sort of thing could not happen here,It does!

[**forum-decorum**]

Hello!?

Can we please get back to reality here on every day planet earth! 

Do either of you have children?

We are talking about a "man", "Jimmy Saville" who sexually tampered and sexually interfered with under age and adolescent children as young as 7 years old and did this over a period of 20 years!

If the God you refer to "sees all" and is the ultimate arbiter in this scenario, I wonder what advice or sentence would be for one of his "fallen disciples" - will he forgive them if the "dead person" repents and if so, how does this make it an acceptable apology to the "living"?

What an earth are you talking about?

You are saying that this God "sees all" and Jimmy Saville's penance will be in the "after life" along with all the other freaks of nature who have spent a lifetime of sexually abusing under age girls and boys and babies!  - WHAT ABOUT THE LIVING? The here and now!  When and how do they get their explanation of events?  All will all be revealed when they die?

What a cop out, what a load of utter convenient tripe to cover up for a paedophile!

Hello Mitzigirl,

You clearly have very strong views and hatred toward these people and I can certainly understand why.

Yes Mitzi I have children, and a good few beautiful grand children,  I have also when very young been "tampered with" (not by family I might add) and I most definately am in reality here, thank you.

As I have said before the reality is that this dreadful problem of perverted sexual appetite is because of a wicked sinful state of weak persons influenced by the ruler of this world "satan". I have aired my views on that before.

So to answer you about repentance, we all have the opportunity to repent and gain Gods favour, the ones who Die before Armageddon and the ones who have died already who will be resurrected.

The Jimmy savilles and the like have died so, they have paid the penalty for sin which is death.

Only God has the authority to judge each and everyone on their works. He is the only one who can decide who will be judged to be righteous or not. There are people who have committed so serious a sin against God and his principles that they will not be given a second chance, for instance Adam and Eve. But ultimately the judging is for Jehovah.

What about "THE LIVING" The here and now, They by the preaching work are having a perfectly good explanation of events and as I have mentioned, God does see all, so he will have seen all the pain and suffering dished out by these people. It will not go un noticed, he (Jehovah) is in the process of rectifying all wrongs.

No I don;t believe it to be  a cop out, or a load of utter tripe, It is what I have had explained to me by Jehovah and believe in my heart to be true.

The Ultimate punishment will be that of Satans and his demons when they will finally be destroyed no longer to harm anyone.

I know to many of you I sound like a stupid gullible idiot who spouts a load of pathetic rubbish, but I am a perfectly normal person who cares for my neighbours and fellow man. I truly believe and have faith that one day life on this earth will be restored back to perfection, and I so hope I will be part of it. I have not been brainwashed, I have learnt and reasoned on facts put before and come to my own conclusions. I was blessed with intelligence to be able to do that, I am not perfect but neither am I stupid or incapable of reason.

I also know that others are entitled to their beliefs and opinions and respect you all for them.

[blackburn_stevie]

i_wanna & Tim ... I don't want to jump the gun before I'm sure in my own head about what you're saying so could either of you please answer this question for me?

Are you saying that if a chap commits a crime, God alone will be his/her/their judge, jury and, if appropriate, executioner?

Doesn't that kind of give a person with no religious beliefs a mandate to go out and kill, rob etc as much as he likes knowing that the law of the land can't touch him?

[geographically*challenged]

Firstly I am sorry mitzi doesnt accept mine or i.wanna.sell.bargains  opinions but we cant all beleive everything the same and thats where discussions are good.

We air our feelings and thoghts.

Some may agree, others may not. It is up to each one of us to tell each how we see things and this is how i.wanna.sell.bargains  &nI feel and beleive.

Sadly mitzi my wife and I couldnt have children:( but I ran a kids club for 10 years and I got to know alot about children and their sufferings and also of their love. I heard alot about their heart aches and the pains they may have suffered while growing up.

They were like my children and hile I ran the club I hope I taught them how to del with rightand wrng. If they had wrong done to them then I would be there for them. and help them where I could.

No Im not a trained social workrer or teacher but when I ran the club i could instill in these children to know if people were stalking, grooming or even touching them they could  tell me or my team & we'd try to sort it  for them.

We heard that there was a 14 yar old boy trying to touch up one of the girls who was a bit slow. We found out exactly what and when he tried theses things and we made sure the boy stayed well away from her. He was told he could be or would be in serious troble with the police if he continued trying to tuch the girl.

He soon learnt what he was doing was wrong nd stopped bothering the girl Im pleased to say and never bother the girl again and he promised he wouldnt bother her or any young girl again.

He has grown into a very nice and polite young man 🙂

Stevie YES GOD alone will be judge, jury but he wont be as you say exicuioner. He will as i wanna said earlier this person wont get into this new life when the world has ended. He may go to the same place Satan went. Cast out into the firey furnace.

That is my beliefe.

[tommy.irene]

This man of GOD didnt help people.  NORTH CORK TEN. 
There are ten brave women living in Mallow. They were sexually abused as children by a Roman Catholic priest referred to as "Father B" in the Cloyne Report. They made their complaints to the Diocese about the atrocities inflicted upon them. John Magee, the current Bishop of Cloyne at the time was made aware of "Father B's" activities but failed to act appropriately. Because of his failure to act "Father B" was free to continue his reign of abuse. John Magee has since been removed from his position as Bishop of Cloyne as a result of his actions (or lack thereof). The Vatican has written to these women and apologised, it has also paid them financial compensation. The Vatican has also, since, defrocked "Father B" and he is living freely in the North Cork Area. The Garda Siochana were informed of the offences and sent a file containing very strong evidence of the abuse to the DPP in full confidence of a prosecution however the DPP has declined to prosecute "Father B", giving no reason. The DPP has also declined to prosecute John Magee for his failure to report serious crimes which action could possibly have prevented other abuses from taking place.

[mitzigirl_123]

Hi Tim and I.wanna

Of course everyone has their own set of beliefs and no one religion can claim that theirs is the right one which is why I object to the earlier postings.

Every time an emotive or distressing topic is raised. Someone will thrust their interpretation of "God" into it making a complete mockery of the seriousness of the topic or acts carried out.

I.wanna

Aargh! You are doing it again; you are turning every actual event and heinous crime and putting into a fantasy land.

We are talking about Jimmy Saville and other pedophiles not GOD! 

Take this scenario.  A child has been tortured, abused and raped but not killed.  That child is 6 years old. 

How do you comfort that child and explain to them what has happened and why. 

If we were to follow your rationale, then the parents, doctors, policemen and women, social services, counselors and members of the legal profession would say:

“The man that did this to you is not responsible for his actions, it is not his fault, it was the work of the DEVIL and his demons but be assured that if he says sorry to his god, he will be forgiven so that when he dies he will be brought back to life again”.

Do you know how that sounds! 

Is that going to give comfort to the child or scare the living daylights out of them?

You said “The Jimmy Savilles and the like have died so, they have paid the penalty for sin which is death.”

I say, What?!  There are two known facts in life, you are born and you die anything in between that is a bonus and any after that is an unknown quantity.

Are you saying that death is the penalty for living and the reason we die is because we have sinned!

You may be a nice person but to be honest I find you quite scary and dangerous.

I will be interested to read the answer to Stevie's question.

[**forum-decorum**]

i_wanna & Tim ... I don't want to jump the gun before I'm sure in my own head about what you're saying so could either of you please answer this question for me?

Are you saying that if a chap commits a crime, God alone will be his/her/their judge, jury and, if appropriate, executioner?

Doesn't that kind of give a person with no religious beliefs a mandate to go out and kill, rob etc as much as he likes knowing that the law of the land can't touch him?

Hello stevie,

As I have been taught this Is how I understand it to be, God Jehovah has a purpose for man kind so he alone has the authority to set the principles we should live by. He because of wickedness entering in to mankinds way of life on earth has set in place a plan to rectify that and is actively now carrying it out, this plan is for the future of mankind so he is the only one who will Judge who will be saved or not depending on their works.

While we are living on this earth there are worldly governments who set out laws of the land by which all mankind is expected to abide, by the Governments and ultimately by God because he allows them to stand in their relative positions because law and order is important for living now.

That means we are not free to be lawless and are responsible for our own actions, and that the laws of the land have many penalties for many transgressions.

So people like Jimmy Saville if alive when proved to be a wrong doer will be tried and punished by the law of the land, and have what the law says are justifiable penalties.

This does not completely address the wider, future purposes which only God is able to do.

In Savilles case he has died before any punishment can be given if he is proved to be guilty (and I believe him to be so the same as many, going by the overwhelming case against him) where is the fareness in that?

So in my view he still has to answer for his dispicable sins, and it will be God that is the Judge and jurer and if he judges it to be necessary, executioner.

[tommy.irene]

Hi Tim and I.wanna

Of course everyone has their own set of beliefs and no one religion can claim that theirs is the right one which is why I object to the earlier postings.

Every time an emotive or distressing topic is raised. Someone will thrust their interpretation of "God" into it making a complete mockery of the seriousness of the topic or acts carried out.

I.wanna

Aargh! You are doing it again; you are turning every actual event and heinous crime and putting into a fantasy land.

We are talking about Jimmy Saville and other pedophiles not GOD! 

Take this scenario.  A child has been tortured, abused and raped but not killed.  That child is 6 years old. 

How do you comfort that child and explain to them what has happened and why. 

If we were to follow your rationale, then the parents, doctors, policemen and women, social services, counselors and members of the legal profession would say:

“The man that did this to you is not responsible for his actions, it is not his fault, it was the work of the DEVIL and his demons but be assured that if he says sorry to his god, he will be forgiven so that when he dies he will be brought back to life again”.

Do you know how that sounds! 

Is that going to give comfort to the child or scare the living daylights out of them?

You said “The Jimmy Savilles and the like have died so, they have paid the penalty for sin which is death.”

I say, What?!  There are two known facts in life, you are born and you die anything in between that is a bonus and any after that is an unknown quantity.

Are you saying that death is the penalty for living and the reason we die is because we have sinned!

You may be a nice person but to be honest I find you quite scary and dangerous.

I will be interested to read the answer to Stevie's question.

And what if it was a priest  who did it 

[bankhaunter]

If the man does get some food, the bible can be used to make a fire with for cooking, that will be it's only use.

#291 an excellent post though you missed one small point.

The child should also be told that if God forgives the man, they may meet them again one day, probably a terrifying thought for that child.

[blackburn_stevie]

Tim ... many thanks for your answer to my question. However, it does bring up an interesting conundrum, namely, if God is the only guy allowed to dish out any sort of retribution for an act, how come that you are allowed to go and see him saying, "Do that sort of thing again and you'll be sorry". Surely that's God's remit according to what you are saying.

Please understand me when I say that nothing that I say on these boards is meant as an insult to either a person, a person's religion or a person's relibious belief. There may have been one or two exceptions to the rule but there were pretty obvious reasons.

Please excuse any spelling mistakes 'cos I'm propped up in my bed and typing this out on a tablet's keyboard rather than a proper one and finding the right punctuation marks is a bit tricky, lol

[mitzigirl_123]

Obviously an earlier post of mine didn't sit comfortably with someone that touched a nerve or pricked the conscience.

Never mind! 😄

[spawnjohnuk]

How did god get involved with jim ?

nonsense ,apart from some folk are evil and some are not (still out on jim and others being accused)  If believing in god mitz means not being in the evil category ..then it can't all be bad to have one eh 🙂

Teaching it to others may be just a tad overzealous however because I thought 'the finding him' was all part of becoming a believer,not 'you will all pay dearly 'so believe.

jmo 

[spawnjohnuk]

ps I mean believing to,not working for an organization 😉

[geographically*challenged]

Tim ... many thanks for your answer to my question. However, it does bring up an interesting conundrum, namely, if God is the only guy allowed to dish out any sort of retribution for an act, how come that you are allowed to go and see him saying, "Do that sort of thing again and you'll be sorry". Surely that's God's remit according to what you are saying.

Please understand me when I say that nothing that I say on these boards is meant as an insult to either a person, a person's religion or a person's relibious belief. There may have been one or two exceptions to the rule but there were pretty obvious reasons.

Please excuse any spelling mistakes 'cos I'm propped up in my bed and typing this out on a tablet's keyboard rather than a proper one and finding the right punctuation marks is a bit tricky, lol

Stevie when I said "Do that sort of thing again and you'll be sorry". I think I was talking about this boy who was trying to touch up a young girl as I said in  post. I wouldnt speak to GOD that way.

Yes God decides how we are punished not me. Definitely not me.

 'God is the only guy'.

He is a being to me. A GOD not a guy.

I know you arent meaning to insult:)

Thanx.

I didnt think at any point you were insulting mate:)