Sir Jimmy Saville

[thecollectorssurplus]

No thread about this on here, so I thought I'd start one. 

My starter for ten is this: Okay, I'm not saying anybody is making anything up, but why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff? And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation that was spotless and upsetting his grieving family even further. Seems basically wrong to me. Why does someone always have to bring down our heroes and role models? They should have done what they're doing now ten years ago or not at all if you ask me.

Nick

[electric*mayhem*band]

Jimmy Savile - The Knight Who Never Was. (Hopefully).

[upthecreekyetagain]

There has been a thread about this on here.

The question as to why people, (colleagues and acquaintances as well as victims), didn't speak up before his death has been addressed including the case of one alleged victim who was locked in a room when she tried to complain at the time 😞

His reputation amongst those who knew him was apparently not as spotless as you suggest OP and in any case which is more important, closure for his alleged victims or the "reputation" of a dead man?

[tintinthegingertomcat]

I haven't seen all the news about him but I recall Esther Rantzen saying something along the lines that he had to be guilty because of all the evidence from these people being very similar (I can recall her exact words)  although I agree it is sad that it has come to light after his death - the dead can't defend themselves and never very fair on those they leave behind

[angela_mills]

Savile's reputation wasn't spotless, not even when he was still alive. It was tarnished years ago.

No-one with a spotless reputation needs to deny he was ever at Haut de la Garenne when the pictures of him there have been circulating for years, and allegations were made against him as far back as the 70s.

[geo1pat1]

“No thread about this on here, so I thought I'd start one”

He has certainly been discussed on here recently.

“but why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff”

They didn't!........................It now transpires that several of them complained at the time, but no action was taken, mainly because the BBC wanted it kept quiet, they didn't want a scandal.....Several staff members and at least one producer, knew what Saville was doing but were effectively warned off or bullied into keeping quiet.

“And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation

that was spotless”

His reputation was not spotless!..........Many knew of his insidious behaviour but were frightened to speak up, or as I have already said, were warned off..........................He was even asked outright by Louis Theroux on a TV programme in 2000 how he felt about the long standing rumours of him being a paedophile, which, if memory serves, he did not deny or admit, only stating that it was up to the accusers to prove their claims.

“Why does someone always have to bring down our heroes and role models? “

He might have been your hero and role model, but he certainly wasn't mine, I never liked the guy and had him pinged as a wrong un years ago........But if there are those who have “modelled” themselves on him, that is their choice, although personally I don't think it is something they should be too proud about.

“They should have done what they're doing now ten years ago or not at all if you ask me”

As explained above.......They did do it ten or even more years ago, but it was hushed up.

Have you not read or seen on television the accounts of his victims ?................And perhaps more damningly, the revelations from his peers?..........Are they all lying?..................Shouldn't the truth be told ?

[charliebird123]

Bit of a U turn from Freddie starr.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2214785/Freddie-Starr-forced-admit-mistaken-TV-footage-unear...

[lhasa.two]

No thread about this on here, so I thought I'd start one. 

My starter for ten is this: Okay, I'm not saying anybody is making anything up, but why did all these people wait till he was dead before accusing him of all this stuff? And quite frankly, now he's dead, what can come from it other than tarnishing a reputation that was spotless and upsetting his grieving family even further. Seems basically wrong to me. Why does someone always have to bring down our heroes and role models? They should have done what they're doing now ten years ago or not at all if you ask me.

Nick

Nick, I think he's like most predators, very adept at concealing their true intentions. I imagine he would have made it very difficult for the Police to investigate him, again probably by using his "charity" side to safeguard himself. A very clever long term ruse which worked for him. 

He was also very litigious and for those women it would have been a daunting prospect to stand up and accuse him, when his charity work was so successful and he was thought so well of in certain circles. I think you've also got to view it from a "different times" perspective of institutionalised sexism, certainly by the police. So the very body that they would want to support and help them fight their corner would probably be very dismissive towards their accusations of his behaviour.

[thecollectorssurplus]

Some very good points made here, especially from you, Mrs Slocombe. Personally I'm very dismayed by the whole thing. Maybe I'm not as well-informed on this matter as the rest of you, and obviously I never met him personally, but he always struck me as one of the good guys and a true english eccentric; back in the day, one couldn't help but smile whenever he came onto the TV. Just goes to show how these people can fool us, I suppose. Still seems pointless and tragic for all this to explode into the news when he's dead though. If nothing else, he made a lot of children happy with his "Jim'll Fix It" show, which I remember fondly, and he must have raised an incredible amount of money for some very worthy causes over a great many years. There are probably a lot more famous people with shady pasts like Saville's, and I expect some of them will never be discovered.

Nick

[mr-expresso]

Still a virgin at 14???

Never mind.....

Jim'll fix it for you.....

[lhasa.two]

Nick, being an abuser is never acceptable under any circumstances. However much "good" he may have done in other areas of his life, it doesn't make up for what he did to these young girls. He took advantage of the impressionable and vulnerable in a time when the majority of 14 year old girls. In my book his actions negate any good that he may have done because it has been going on for many many years and he chose to conceal it by threatening legal action if anyone tried to do anything about it. It's right that it should be exposed regardless that he is now dead. Yes, of course it's upsetting for his family but I'm sure Saville didn't think of them when he was abusing these girls. Sadly he probably thought he was invincible.

Paeodophilia incest and rape are the last bastions of the totally unacceptable in our western society.

Esther Rantzen started Childline so that abused children - sexually mentally and physically - could unburden themselves and seek help. One of the major problems is overcoming the "guilt" that these children feel as a consequence of what was done to them because they feel they "deserved" it. That's a very strong burden for children for not either confronting their abuser or telling another adult about their situation. Childline gives them an escape route and thank goodness it does.

[geo1pat1]

# 8

“Still seems pointless and tragic for all this to explode into the news when he's dead though.”

How can it be pointless and tragic?.......The truth of this mans insidious behaviour is finally being spoken about openly, and that can only be a good thing. You have obviously missed the point or chosen to ignore what has been written in previous posts............His behaviour was kept quiet during his lifetime for a variety of reasons.....................Fear being one of them, and now, free from the constraints of said fear, those who knew what he was up to, including many of his peers, his employer, and his numerous victims, can speak out with no constraints.

Tragic?...................Yes it is tragic, but only by virtue of the fact that he was allowed to get away with it for so many years.

“If nothing else, he made a lot of children happy with his "Jim'll Fix It" show”

That may well be so, but it in no way counteracts the other things he was doing, and most definitely does not excuse his behaviour. In other words, one good deed and one bad deed doesn't equate to ALL good.

“he must have raised an incredible amount of money for some very worthy causes over a great many years. “

No question, but I repeat...it in no way counteracts the other things he was doing, and most definitely does not excuse his behaviour. In other words, one good deed and one bad deed doesn't equate to ALL good.

“There are probably a lot more famous people with shady pasts like Saville's, and I expect some of them will never be discovered”

Totally agree............................But that doesn't mean that those who are caught should get off...........No more than the career criminals should be let off just because some of their fellow criminals are lucky enough to evade capture..........See my point?

Sorry OP, but you will have a hard job convincing me and no doubt many others, that it is right to expose the truth of Saville's behaviour..........something that should have been done during his lifetime but wasn't.................His death if anything, has put that fact to right.

[thecollectorssurplus]

I really had no intention of mentioning this when I started this post, but as I've been given such a hard time for simply pointing out that this man was by no means ALL bad and feeling sorry for his family, I will tell you here that I was quite badly abused myself as a child.I may have been a boy rather than a girl, but I was a particularly quiet, shy and frightened boy, and it seemed for several years that everyone around me was subjecting me to some form of abuse, mental, physical, and yes, even sexual on more than one occasion. Amongst these villains were family members, teachers and my fellow schoolboys. Even later on, when the actual "abuse" stopped, I was very badly bullied. I hate to say it but this is why I take such a brave and unswerving stance against the hoards of bullies I see on every board on this site every single day. In the real world, nobody bullies me anymore. Nobody is rude to me. I command respect. As for the ancient history? It;'s completely irrelevant to me now. I have forgiven and forgotten and moved on and I am a sdtronger and better person for putting it all behind me. I look bacvk on all my early troubles now in a positive fashion. It was character building. I would not like to be the same vulnerable, unhappy person at 45 as I was when I was 8. People do terrible things. They always have and they always will. But the simple fact is that Sir Jimmy Saville did some undisputably good things too and we shouldn't forget that.

Nick

[geo1pat1]

#12

Are you saying you have been bullied on this board OP ?

[algasmoon]

It is though, a by product of abuse to see good in someone so vile and perverse as a child abuser. Sympathies Nick. My take on it is that the 'good' you may see in a sexual predator is normally only there as a smoke screen to disuade critisism. The good, in other words, isnt for the good but for his good. Its not really character building it is rather character moulding - character manipulation, these people are vile perverse and manipulative its all part of 'the game' to them. Hoodwinking people to make sure they wouldnt ever think it of them. The good things ?

[thecollectorssurplus]

#5, 11 & 13. I just wrote out a long and involved reponse to your last post; unfortunately it simply refused to upload and I've now lost it. I get that a lot. Other posts go on twice!

The short answer to your question is "No".

Nick

[lhasa.two]

Nick, a good way not to lose a post is to copy and paste it before pressing Post, as sometimes (often!) when writing for a while, ebay will "time out" and that's when it gets lost.

[electric*mayhem*band]

To remove a dead person's Knighthood would be unprecedented. Not impossible, though would need an Act of Parliament to achieve, I think.

Pity it couldn't be obliterated as easily as this:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-19867893

[ilove2patch]

Re the Knighthood:

"It's a living order and then you cease to be a member when you die," a Cabinet Office spokesman said. "There isn't an honour to revoke."

[leanne.myers]

He was made un-touchable by the people around him, and by the fact he did so much 'good' and raised so much money for charity. The stories about the abuse are too consistent to be made up. At the time when these going on were happening, Paedo's weren't as hear of, it is disgusting how over looked it was though, and how people just seemed to "accept" the fact he abused young girls!