Should Faith/Religion Have Such a High Value In Our Society?

[lambsy_uk]

I'm not here to trample all over people's faith/beliefs but to ask if/why such beliefs should hold such high value in our society?

So where am I comming from? Well we can freely question almost anything in our society/lives; morals, political beliefs, actions and reactions, motivations, interactions, foreign policy, education, welfare, how we raise our children, law and order and so on..........

However we are positively discouraged from questioning people's faith/beliefs/religion! We are also actively encouraged to accommodate and allow for people's religious beliefs, and this is the bit that really irks me! Why is it that if something is done in the name of a religious belief/practice then we are expected to accept it with little fuss where if any other excuse were used we'd be up in arms?

We endure arguments of whether animal rights should take precedence over religion, whether saving the life of a child should take precedence over their parent's beliefs, should freedom of expression take precedence over religious sensitivities?

For me you may as well base stuff on the football team you support;

"I can't comply with the company dress code because I'm a United fan and therefore I must be allowed to wear a United shirt at work."

As far as I'm concerned this is no more ridiculous than anything done/not done in the name of religious beliefs!

So why do religious beliefs hold such high status and is it right that they do?

[saasher2012]

I was watching an old Dave Allen Dvd & he was taking off a young Ian Paisley preaching, although it was very funny & accurate, I can see how it would put the fear of God ( pardon the pun!) into people!

[lambsy_uk]

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@cee-dee wrote:

In the beginning................ it was all to do with attempting to control the easily led/convinced populace.

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Not just in the beginning either. There's much that can be found that demonstrates the wishes of church and state to have great influence on the lives of parishioners.

At the turn of the 18th/19th century there was a concern in society that, following the French Revolution of 1789–99, there might be a similar uprising in Britain. It was considered that "the influence of the Church and its religious and moral teaching was a bulwark against revolution". Some argued that a major function of the church was to complement the work of the state; that "the church's main function was social control".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Commissioners'_church

I remember watching a programme on tv not so long ago, 'The History of London' or something like that. The Gin Craze of the 18th century was discussed along with associated debauchery etc., and part of the solution to curb the problems was to 'Build More Churches'. Get the people to church and get them to change their ways. In other words social control!!!

[bankhaunter]

Get the people to church and get them to change their ways. In other words social control!!!

The Salvation Army tried that when they 'captured' the Eagle public house (Pop goes the weasel), the only problem was that the lease required them to sell beer which they had to do for at least a few months before they found a way of wriggling out.

There has never been an example of prayer having any obvious effect, during a long drought in Texas, the governer Rick Perry having decided that Texans "have been strengthed, assured and lifted up through prayer", promoted three days of praying for rain.

Presumably God couldn't be bothered to act or even listen as there was no rain for another four months.

There is also the contradictory situation of praying, a bride prays for a sunny day for her wedding while a neighbour prays for rain to water his garden, which one should be listened to?

Advocates of prayer however do have it both ways, you pray to find your car keys, do find them so God answered your prayer.

If you don't find them, it's all part of God's plan.

[lambsy_uk]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

Advocates of prayer however do have it both ways, you pray to find your car keys, do find them so God answered your prayer.

If you don't find them, it's all part of God's plan.

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It means you should take more care of your car keys!

[cee-dee]

"There has never been an example of prayer having any obvious effect......."

Very true but there's been many examples of "prayers" coincidentally seeming to have been answered. Convincing believers that it's a coincidence is impossible.

Out of interest, try researching the case of John Fagan from Glasgow.

[tommy.irene]

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@cee-dee wrote:

"There has never been an example of prayer having any obvious effect......."

Very true but there's been many examples of "prayers" coincidentally seeming to have been answered. Convincing believers that it's a coincidence is impossible.

Out of interest, try researching the case of John Fagan from Glasgow.

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http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/spl/aberdeen/from-easterhouse-to-st-peter-s-glasgow-s-miracle-ma...

[lambsy_uk]

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@cee-dee wrote:

"There has never been an example of prayer having any obvious effect......."

Very true but there's been many examples of "prayers" coincidentally seeming to have been answered. Convincing believers that it's a coincidence is impossible.

Out of interest, try researching the case of John Fagan from Glasgow.

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Prayers may have an effect on the person offering them but no direct cause and effect with regards to answering them in the requested manner.

My prayers were answered when my football team won and I received confirmation my daughter had got into our preferred school. All in one weekend my prayers were answered by eleven men plus subs and the local education authority!

[bankhaunter]

It's just confirmation bias, a person believes in something and when it appears sometimes to be true it confirms their belief and they ignore all the times it shows not to be true, cancers do suddenly regress for no apparent reason, some people just get lucky, simple coincidence.

That's why belief in horoscopes etc continues to exist, when careful examination and reason, would show that belief to be unwarranted.

It could be that belief in prayer has a placebo effect in a very few cases however we do know that there are many thousands of examples where sufferers have been in receipt of prayers that had no effect whatsoever.

We also know that frequently God is praised for healing somebody and those praising ignore the efforts of the doctors and their treatment.

I wonder how often God is given the credit for a person's survival of a car crash when that credit would be better given to the seat belt/airbag/crumple zone manufacturer or even the MPs that brought in the legislation making them compulsory.

[saasher2012]

I do think Prayers , chants yoga etc have an affect on people but not in a Godly sense, It concentrates the mind & calms, so to that end its a good thing, but yes I think we all at sometime have asked for something or other in a prayer but as to it being granted I agree it's just coincidence.

[ronnybabes]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
I was watching an old Dave Allen Dvd & he was taking off a young Ian Paisley preaching, although it was very funny & accurate, I can see how it would put the fear of God ( pardon the pun!) into people!

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[saasher2012]

Yes! That's the one great isn't it?

[saasher2012]

I'm sorry to say this Astro, but the news of the murder of Alan Hemmings, sadly answers your question, not just for him but those who were murdered before him!. RIP.

[rose2008-2008]

Im so sad today for Alan Hemmings and his wife and children. BARBARIC,SICK, EGOTISTICAL. They dont care about anyone but their own sad beliefs!!. RIP Alan, you were a VERY Brave Man, and my thoughts are with your family and the sadness they have to bear now. . God Bless.

[astrologica]

With the greatest respect Rose....'God. Bless'? Alan Henning and the other hostages were probably the most prayed-for people of recent years....I think even Atheists and Agnostics were praying for him(them). But where was God? Did he listen? Did he answer that multitude of prayers? Where was God when Muslims were praying for Christians out of love for their fellow man? Where was God when all that blood was brutally spilled in the desert? And if one religious person comes on here and says 'It's for a reason'....or 'God has his own plans'...or 'God loves every one of us'....I think I will have to go and throw up.

[tommy.irene]

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@astrologica wrote:
With the greatest respect Rose....'God. Bless'? Alan Henning and the other hostages were probably the most prayed-for people of recent years....I think even Atheists and Agnostics were praying for him(them). But where was God? Did he listen? Did he answer that multitude of prayers? Where was God when Muslims were praying for Christians out of love for their fellow man? Where was God when all that blood was brutally spilled in the desert? And if one religious person comes on here and says 'It's for a reason'....or 'God has his own plans'...or 'God loves every one of us'....I think I will have to go and throw up.

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This is what happens when people believe that there is a god..

[5129frederick]

That's right, Tommy.  As a practicing Methodist I have an even older chestnut thrown up in my face by every angry atheist, regarding the power of prayer.  We're talking of the holocaust - the annihilation of six million Jews, although curiously no mentioning of the plight of twenty million Russians.  
"Where was God?"  They scream in my face, squaring up to me on occasions.  I answer them as thruthfully as I can.

"I don't know where He was when they cried out for deliverance.  At the other end of the scale what you ask is like a six year-old girl crying her eyes out, asking:  "If God loved Granny, why did he let her die?"  I don't know why He doesn't answer everybody's prayers.  Famine, wars, earthquakes, people born blind et al - it's all God's fault, isn't it!  What an ungrateful world we live in!  

Well I don't have the answers to any of those questions, because I'm not God.  He might not have answered my neighbours's prayer, but He certainly answered mine, millimetres away from a nervous breakdown back in 2003.

Instead of blaming God for everything under the sun for what He hasn't done, for once, just once, let's thank Him for what He has given us.  He has given me, in the main, a healthy life, one in which I have all my faculties.  I've got diabetes through my own fault, eating all the wrong foods, the smallest of all crosses to bear.  He also saved my life when I had a serious car smash - fractured ribs and leg injuries are very painful, cuts all over my head but, what amounted to a miracle - my eyes remained in tact.  Yes, I've been through the wars, but He's seen me ok, so I thank Him for the life I have lead.

Eleven words changed my life forever back in 2003.  They didn't come from the Bible - they weren't evenly carefully thought out - but they did come from my heart.  I'd like to share those eleven words with all of you, because if they changed my life, then I pray, with every ounce of strength I have, that they will one day change your life too, not dramatically like mine, but slowly where you won't even realise the changes that are coming about.

They are, quite simply: "Lord, come into my heart, and stay with me forever.  Amen.

[bankhaunter]

Famine, wars, earthquakes, people born blind et al - it's all God's fault, isn't it!  What an ungrateful world we live in!  

If there was such a thing as God and he did create us, then yes all those things are his fault, he deliberately created the conditions which caused them.

I am amazed anyone could logically think differently and as for the Holocaust, written on a wall in one of the camps was "When I meet my maker, he is going to have to ask for my forgiveness".

He also saved my life when I had a serious car smash - fractured ribs and leg injuries are very painful, cuts all over my head but, what amounted to a miracle - my eyes remained in tact.

The emergency services and medical science has nothing to do with it then? God gets all the credit?

Don't forget he knew it was going to happen beforehand and did nothing to stop it.

[tommy.irene]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2780679/Catholic-bishops-gather-Rome-extraordinary-synod-ref...    .This is your God on earth.... man..

[**bustysinclaire**]

bankhaunter wrote:

Famine, wars, earthquakes, people born blind et al - it's all God's fault, isn't it!  What an ungrateful world we live in!  

If there was such a thing as God and he did create us, then yes all those things are his fault, he deliberately created the conditions which caused them.

I am amazed anyone could logically think differently and as for the Holocaust, written on a wall in one of the camps was "When I meet my maker, he is going to have to ask for my forgiveness".

http://www.jw.org/en/publications/books/control-world-tract/who-controls-the-world/

It is very clear that it is not God's fault at all. Satan is the instigator of all that is wrotten in this world, God is the one cleaning it up a putting things right.

He also saved my life when I had a serious car smash - fractured ribs and leg injuries are very painful, cuts all over my head but, what amounted to a miracle - my eyes remained in tact.

The emergency services and medical science has nothing to do with it then? God gets all the credit?

Don't forget he knew it was going to happen beforehand and did nothing to stop it.

Bank by your own way of reasoning, If God created all then he is behind the emergency service and medical science and teams that saved fredericks life.

With some things if God put a stop to things without the individual learning by them, then how can we experience our true feelings, change our way of thinking and come to acknowledge truths, and most of all answer Satan's accusation that mankind would never turn to God under hardships.

[rose2008-2008]

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@astrologica wrote:
With the greatest respect Rose....'God. Bless'? Alan Henning and the other hostages were probably the most prayed-for people of recent years....I think even Atheists and Agnostics were praying for him(them). But where was God? Did he listen? Did he answer that multitude of prayers? Where was God when Muslims were praying for Christians out of love for their fellow man? Where was God when all that blood was brutally spilled in the desert? And if one religious person comes on here and says 'It's for a reason'....or 'God has his own plans'...or 'God loves every one of us'....I think I will have to go and throw up.

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You dont seem to have any respect at all!!. There is something at work and i believe it must be a God of some sort,,,whether Good or Bad things happen!. Something higher that has the power to do these things or decide peoples fate must be a GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.