Shooting in Paris

[hyperrush]

This is horrible, getting the newscast 36 dead innocents 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995227/Paris-shooting-Many-feared-dead-liv...

[evoman3957]

I've no reason to doubt that a lot of these atrocities are being carried out by "Home Grown" extremists, but the ideology comes from afar.....Iraq / Syria...etc. etc. in short ISIS / al-Qaeda etc. etc. It's highly probable that ,up to recently, these "cells" have been operating autonomously and with the loosest of instructions from it's ideological headquarters........basically " kill as many as you can, when you get the chance". However, as the operation grows in number and strength in Europe; it becomes necessary to bring in some structured control and command, to oversee and coordinate its operations. In much the same way as every village in China, still has a "Party" member keeping an "Eye" on things; among its inhabitants........so too, somebody higher up the food chain; will be watching the "Home Grown" radicals, making sure they don't waiver in their commitment or belief. To that end, one or two of the actual perpetrators are also likely to be from the home and upper echelons of the ideology. This will lead from within and ensure any second thoughts among the "Home Grown" force and quickly controlled and dispelled........also ensuring that "focus" is maintained. We are talking about a highly organized / funded and sophisticated organization here......an "Army" of "Psychopaths" the like of which history has never seen before. If you think the "Gestapo" were bad in the second World War, you'd better think again. The LAST thing we ALL should be doing, is giving them any easy way to move a large amount of their followers into Europe; mixed in with an uncontrolled migration crisis. The road to HELL is paved with good intentions and we ARE on the road to HELL.........we really need to wake up to reality.

[*.*..lola..*.*]

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mikes*corvettes wrote: 

Lola, as far as I'm aware they make video recordings for their families and once they've completed their mission these are given to them and then aired on the internet and TV, I find it peculiar that at least two carried passports which would have given them away if they were caught before deployment.

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Yeah Mike straight after I posted, I realised it was a bit of a dumb theory LOL. I even watched the videos from the 7/7 bombers on the news.

[evoman3957]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-30315092

[mikes*corvettes]

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@goldenwonders wrote:

I think the point being missed here is that this enormous movement of people throughout the EU is the whole crux of the problem.

The core value that Merkel wants to enforce with an iron hand is the right of EU citizens to travel anywhere within the EU freely.

This will prove to be the downfall of the EU - that is why so many countries are now finally backpeddling and trying to put up fences and stop migrants entering the EU to gain access to any member state within. Had this been done sooner then this atrocity in Paris may not have happened!

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 Goldenwonders, Merkel is just the puppet, George Soros who has declared he wants an open boarder policy in Europe and is financing the mass refugee exodus is the real puppet master.

[tommy.irene]

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2015/jun/03/us-isis-syria-iraqNow the truth emerges: how the US fuelled the rise of Isis in Syria and Iraq

[joe_bloggs*]

Not often i agree with Peter Hitchens but i think he writes a decent article in todays mail on sunday

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-3318980/PETER-HITCHENS-Really-want-beat-terror-calm-THINK....

Interesting article swiftly dragged down by some of the pig-ignorant  morons filling up the comments box below

[cee-dee]

I read the whole page but only a few comments.

I don't know (remember) who said it but he said "We will never talk to terrorists". Someone else said "You always end up talking to terrorists one day".

The whole trouble in the World is caused by the PC do-gooders making the fighting forces try to deal with terrorists with one arm (and at times a leg) tied behind their backs.

Terrorists don't operate by any rules of engagement or the Geneva Convention and it's very difficult responding to them when those dealing with them have to deal with those who see good (and reform) in everyone no matter how wicked they've been.

[ruby*tuesday]

Yes I also think Peter Hitchens is right, like it or not, this mess will only be solved by talking.  Killing is going to get none of us any where.

[fallen-archie]

I read the complete article too, There was much historic criticism, oh the gift of hindsight, I read it hoping that there would be some answers but nothing of note. I am slightly surprised he didn't raise the infamous Sykes-Picot agreement which caused so much consternation with T E Lawrence. But keeping up to date I agree that our armed forces are damned by some, whatever they do call it PC or just plain pacifism but it is ridiculously naive and very destructive. The actions we are seeing go beyond freedom fighting, they extend into the way we all conduct our lives. Let those who ignore the Geneva Convention be punished by their own standards though not their methods. There are many mistakes made by politicians and ultimately they are judged by us, who is judging and tempering the actions of Isis? We either beat them in the field until they agree to negociate or we will lose all credibility and many innocent lives.

[suzieseaside]

I don't believe that there will be any resolution with ISIL by talking, and I seriously doubt that they would ever, ever, be interested in any negotiations. You cannot reason with this kind of terrorist - they are a scale above others we have seen before.

According to several articles about ISIL, they want to goad ‘infidels’ into war and ultimately to bring about prophesies of the apocalypse / end of the world. How do you ever negotiate with a group with that as their ultimate aim?

Dealing with infidels is no problem for them, even face to face. They ask Christians to renounce Christ, otherwise they will kill them, and they do. ISIL terrorists are so committed to their peculiar belief system, they would rather die than renounce ISIL and the caliphate. But we can’t use the same immoral methods to filter them out from entry into Europe and elsewhere by asking all immigrants to renounce ISIL on entry to the West or be killed.

The following is a long article, but if anyone has time or inclination to read it, i thought it was very informative.

http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2015/03/what-isis-really-wants/384980/

[*.*..lola..*.*]

The French haven't wasted any time seeking retribution:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3319696/French-fighter-jets-carry-massive-airstrike-operatio...

[cee-dee]

Well you know the religion they follow is pretty definitive, it's in Black and White that what's said is without question. You can't reason with that sort of thing.

Your article might be long, but the koran takes some reading....... If you have a good memory, you'll find that one thing is said in one place and the opposite somewhere else. If you took issue with one of the followers about those things, you'd be lucky to escape with just an ear-bashing.

[suzieseaside]

I'm not sure what your point is with regard to talking / negotiating with IS, which some have suggested is the only way. 

I have said that you can't reason with their extremist ideology.

Not sure what the length of the article has to do with anything either or the fact that it is obviously not as long as the Koran.  I mentioned it was long because some people won't want to read a long article, but I happened to find it worth going through. 

I am not planning to read the Koran, or any other man-made religious texts, but good for you if you have.  Yes, I know it has many contradictions, in part from your posts on other threads. Neither would I take any issue with Muslims and their beliefs.  People with different beliefs are able to rub along together as long as they respect others. 

Extremists/terrorists like ISIL are a vastly different animal.

[jd.linklater]

Thanks susieseaside, that is absolutely the most informative article I've yet read on Islamic theology. As you say, a very long read but well worth sticking with. Explains very well why calling them un-Islamic couldn't be further from the truth,  also goes a long way towards explaining why Muslim societies in the West have been so reluctant to speak out against them in the past.

Gosh this is going to be a desperately long, hard struggle.

[suzieseaside]

I'm glad that you found it useful, jd. 

I read it in two stints but will have to re-visit it again as there is a lot to digest, as well as terminology.that I am not familiar with.

Gosh this is going to be a desperately long, hard struggle.

Absolutely and can we trust Western leaders to use careful forethought and good judgement in how they respond to such a complex long-term challenge? 

[astrologica]

Suzie...I just read your link...all in one go! Thank you for that, it's very very interesting, and explains a lot about their thinking, and how they came about. But it does reinforce the view that there is little point in talking to these people. Talking is not on their agenda. As it says in the piece..keeping them at bay for the foreseeable future seems like the best option. I have been of the opinion that Imams and leading Muslims in this country should be obliged by law to report to the authorities, any person that they consider to be at risk of radicalisation, but reading this piece.......well, it just wouldn't happen. I was half expecting a public outcry from British Muslims this weekend, denouncing the Paris atrocity, but there hasn't been any.  And another thing I found interesting......that the Prophet didn't recognise borders? Hmmmmmmmm. That just reinforces the view that the EU and it's open borders are just part of a bigger plan. It's a big mess.....I think I am glad that I'm old.

[joe_bloggs*]

"I was half expecting a public outcry from British Muslims this weekend, denouncing the Paris atrocity, but there hasn't been any"

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11996902/i-am-a-muslim-paris-attacks-social-...

http://www.mcb.org.uk/horrific-attacks-in-paris-muslim-council-of-britain-responds/

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/paris-terror-muslim-leaders-around-the-world-condemn-heinous...

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/11/14/muslims-strongly-condemn-paris-attacks/75772102/

http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/british-muslim-community-condemn-actions-104519...

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/paris-attack-as-a-muslim-im-disgusted-how-isis-can-carry-out-thi...

http://www.leicestermercury.co.uk/Muslims-Leicester-condemn-ISIS-terrorism-attack/story-28174486-det...

http://www.pressreader.com/uk/i-from-the-independent/20151116/281852937464799/TextView

Found these few in .5 of a second,easy enough to find,thats if you want to......

[fallen-archie]

Joe is right there have been many Muslim organisations condemning the Paris atrocities, Many Mosques too are beginning to wake up and denounce Isil followers interpretation of the Quran. This is long overdue but it is happening. What we need now is for moderate Muslims to start really looking out for radicals and helping the authorities, again there is some assistance but much much more could and should be forthcoming.

[evoman3957]

No, what we REALLY need; is a Muslim Army ( Boots on the ground ) put there by Muslim Countries, cleaning up their OWN Filth and defending their true religion of peace, understanding and enlightenment from those who would destroy it............but obviously it's not important enough to them, to defend it to that extent. there are those in this World, who would talk to a Crocodile; to attempt to convince it that eating them would not be a good idea. These same people ( the talkers ) enjoy the freedoms and lifestyles that the DOERS gave them, in many cases by giving up their lives..............some people make me sick to my stomach.

[cee-dee]

Moderates can attempt to placate, excuse, even patronise all they like but nothing will come of it until they accept that the majority of what they believe is just plain wrong!

Also, regarding what could or might be done here, this is what we're up against:-

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-34832023