No crisis in Prisons say Tories

[al**bear]

So the Government are telling us, there's No crisis in the Prison system -

it's just every one else involved saying there is

Ditto - The National Health system

Ditto The legal Aid, Probation & court systems

Ditto The Social security system with a special mention for IDSs Universal Credit fiasco

(with Him running about Dads Army style screaming Don't Panic Don't Panic)

Ditto The Passport Offices and immigration systems

Ditto  The Local Government system

Ditto The Education system

Ditto The Road system

Ditto The Armed Forces (especially the Army)

Ditto Employment - re No Hours contracts, very low paid low hours P/T work and the very dubious 'self-employed'   contracts forced on people who don't want them

Ditto The major crisis in Northern Ireland concerning a near total breakdown of the Northern Ireland Assembly and it's quangos

Throw in Scottish Independence

But all the above doesn't seem to be bothering this Government, they've all swanned off on Holiday

 Did I mention - Ebola or the Middle East or Ukraine

So just ignore ALL the above

Osborne & Cameron keep telling us the country's booming and everything in the gardens rosy

Keep Calm and Carry On

[electric*mayhem*band]

If ever there are two heads that need knocking together, it's those two smug and supercilious, removed-from-realty, overly stuffed toffs up aloft. And they're in a prime position for doing it.

Form an orderly queue.

[evoman3957]

The Prison Service has always been understaffed, underfunded and near breaking point. I've been in situations ( quite a few years ago ) when we were on a wing ( 450 inmates ) in full riot gear, trying to quell a riot and restore order. We had surrendered our keys ( so no way out for us ) and the management and senior officers were ready to chain the main gates of the Wing shut ( with us inside ) if we had been overcome by the overwhelming number of inmates. That was under a Labour government, so please lets get away from this uneducated and unenlightened attitude that cocking things up is the preserve of conservatives.........they're as bad as each other. Then along came the wonderful European court of human rights, giving Prisoners even more rights eg. more time out of their cells / the right to vote etc. etc. with total disregard as to how this was going to be staffed; given there was no talk of employing any more staff. When I look back now, I don't know how anybody would want to do such a "Rubbish" job and because it's non productive ( as such ) just keeping societies "Dross" under lock and key and off the streets; spending good money on it, is the last thing anybody seems to want to do.

[electric*mayhem*band]

Well anyway, Chris Grayling says there is no crisis in the prison service, so it must be true.

[merehazle]

 

NO CRISIS?  There is.  And just wait a bit for more for more.  The truth is this lot in power like the last lot created the damn crisis.

Yes... Chris Grayling, the Justice Secretary says:  ''We have got challenges from an increase in population that was not expected in the last 12 months''. Only in the last 12 months is it?  It just about proves he and Cameron haven't a clue. They just don't care a toss do they? Government by the unexpected is it?

They just wont reintroduce hard labour and paying for every second of their keep. That would clear most of our prisons. But what a daft idea isn't it?  The criminal dreading the consequences how dare we even think of that?  Though the criminal has the choice and the victims don't.

Did you see that gang dressed in Burkas robbing Selfridges jewellers with sledge hammers? ha ha hah and they wont ban Burkas. Fact is they wont do anything will they.  And we wont expect it either.

[joe_bloggs*]

"The Howard league reported in July that prison officer numbers were at "breaking point" after a 30% cut in three years. The league reported that there were 19,325 officer-grade staff in September 2013, down from 27,650 in September 2010"

http://www.theguardian.com/society/2014/aug/19/grayling-denies-prison-crisis-inmate-numbers

Prisoner numbers up,Prison officer numbers down,What could possibly go wrong?

[al**bear]

Chris Grayling, the Justice Secretary says: 

''We have got challenges from an increase in population that was not expected in the last 12 months''

what He is trying to blame is the increase in 'Operation Yewtree/Savile'  crimes

That added an estimated 390 more prisoners,  not a lot when you consider the overall prison population is 82000 in England and Wales ( or the numbers they are shoving out the backdoor on early release, that means earlier than even good behaviour releases)

He is also comparing the present situation to figures from 5 years ago, but the increase others are complaining about is about the increase over the figures from the last few years (more relevant)

[upthecreekyetagain]

Maybe if fewer people were needlessly remanded in custody the prison system would work better.

Last year over 36,000 were remanded by magistrates, 25,413 of these were either acquitted or given a non-custodial sentence.

http://rt.com/uk/180988-millions-wasted-remanding-prisoners/

P.S.  Looks like we need to ban sledge hammers

[lambsy_uk]

---

@merehazle wrote:

 

NO CRISIS?  There is.  And just wait a bit for more for more.  The truth is this lot in power like the last lot created the damn crisis.

Yes... Chris Grayling, the Justice Secretary says:  ''We have got challenges from an increase in population that was not expected in the last 12 months''. Only in the last 12 months is it?  It just about proves he and Cameron haven't a clue. They just don't care a toss do they? Government by the unexpected is it?

They just wont reintroduce hard labour and paying for every second of their keep. That would clear most of our prisons. But what a daft idea isn't it?  The criminal dreading the consequences how dare we even think of that?  Though the criminal has the choice and the victims don't.

Did you see that gang dressed in Burkas robbing Selfridges jewellers with sledge hammers? ha ha hah and they wont ban Burkas. Fact is they wont do anything will they.  And we wont expect it either.

---

Is there a political party advocating Hard Labour for prisoners and the banning of Burkas? If so which one?

[tommy.irene]

90 rapists have escaped with a caution over last four years: Critics attack culture that lets serious criminals escape with a slap on the wrist Police issued 15,000 cautions for offences that would usually result in prison Includes 2,279 for sexual assault, 783 for robbery and 11,347 for burglary Six per cent of offenders given caution in 1971 compared to 20 per cent now Centre For Crime Prevention: ‘A caution is never acceptable for crimes like **bleep** or robbery' Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729348/90-rapists-escaped-caution-four-years-Critics-attack...

[tommy.irene]

Police issued 15,000 cautions for offences that would usually result in prison Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2729348/90-rapists-escaped-caution-four-years-Critics-attack...

[upthecreekyetagain]

---

@lambsy_uk wrote:

---

@merehazle wrote:

 

NO CRISIS?  There is.  And just wait a bit for more for more.  The truth is this lot in power like the last lot created the damn crisis.

Yes... Chris Grayling, the Justice Secretary says:  ''We have got challenges from an increase in population that was not expected in the last 12 months''. Only in the last 12 months is it?  It just about proves he and Cameron haven't a clue. They just don't care a toss do they? Government by the unexpected is it?

They just wont reintroduce hard labour and paying for every second of their keep. That would clear most of our prisons. But what a daft idea isn't it?  The criminal dreading the consequences how dare we even think of that?  Though the criminal has the choice and the victims don't.

Did you see that gang dressed in Burkas robbing Selfridges jewellers with sledge hammers? ha ha hah and they wont ban Burkas. Fact is they wont do anything will they.  And we wont expect it either.

---

Is there a political party advocating Hard Labour for prisoners and the banning of Burkas? If so which one?

---

Don't forget banning sledge hammers as well

[electric*mayhem*band]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

Don't forget banning sledge hammers as well

---

And those hideous arrow motifed suits. Ghastly things.

[lambsy_uk]

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@tommy.irene wrote:
‘A caution is never acceptable for crimes like **bleep** or robbery'

---

I disagree; a custodial sentence can lead to the ruin of the remainder of someone's life, where does someone go when their life has been ruined at an early age? If a Tea Leaf with a conviction list as long as my arm was to commit a burglary then I'd like to see the key thrown away. They shouldn't expect to be given umpteen chances. However I'd be willing to give a first offender or young offender a chance, prison wouldn't be a possitive thing for them or us.

The circumstances of each crime should be taken into consideration and a custodial sentence given if appropriate, but I don't think it's appropriate in all cases, not even those involving a sexual assault!

In my book they get a chance, perhaps two, then after that I'd be happy to see the key lost. What I can't understand is the cases where someone has been raped and murdered by someone who has several previous convictions for **bleep** and sexual assault! Three strikes and out would certainly be good in such instances in my opinion.

[rose2008-2008]

Perhaps they should take all the nice things they have like TELLY!!!!!!!!!!!,,Games and so forth,,then perhaps they could sort things out. Thats the CRISIS!!!!. No wonder they all come out and want to go back in again !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!.

[saasher2012]

That's really comforting to hear! " naughty boy we allowed you to R*a*p*e twice & that's how you repay us" your three strike rule is great for the offender , what about the victims of these robberies etc, are they then to say ,well! If that's the system I might as well join the band wagon. Minor offences if not stopped in the early stages then go on to become more serious if allowed to go unpunished!.

[lambsy_uk]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
That's really comforting to hear! " naughty boy we allowed you to R*a*p*e twice & that's how you repay us" your three strike rule is great for the offender , what about the victims of these robberies etc, are they then to say ,well! If that's the system I might as well join the band wagon. Minor offences if not stopped in the early stages then go on to become more serious if allowed to go unpunished!.

---

The trouble here Saasher is you concentrate on punishment and retribution and not so much on constructive action to prevent further offending!

Three strikes is not great for an offender when after a third offence they are in for life. How is that great for them?! Great for society that they are kept out of it I'd suggest; better than a whole string of offences as we see right now wouldn't you think?

Anyone with reasonable sesibilitiy is not going to jump on the band wangon! The main aim for the victim should be that the perp does not offend again or be led into a life of constant offending and re-offending! If a victim is seeking nothing but punishment and retribution I'd suggest they need to take stock of their own morals and values!

[sir_arthur_strebe-grebling]

The most important thing for most prisoners is to be given a decent education. Most criminals will (eventually) be released and most of them stand no chance of getting a job or living normally. Over half of male prisoners, and nearly three-quarters of females, can't read or write properly. Only one in five could fill in a job application form.

http://www.civitas.org.uk/crime/factsheet-EducationinPrisons.pdf

[saasher2012]

No! Actually I think of the Victims, I really don't give a stuff what happens to the offender , to my mind if they commit a crime they deserve everything the law can give em, we could all offend but we don't ! If they have no self control no matter what the crime then they should accept the consequences, I'm afraid if we spent as much time on punishing as we did on saying poor things they have had a rough time perhaps the prisons wouldn't be so full, the threat of prison is obviously not working anymore . I wonder why?.

[lambsy_uk]

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@saasher2012 wrote:
No! Actually I think of the Victims, I really don't give a stuff what happens to the offender , to my mind if they commit a crime they deserve everything the law can give em, we could all offend but we don't ! If they have no self control no matter what the crime then they should accept the consequences, I'm afraid if we spent as much time on punishing as we did on saying poor things they have had a rough time perhaps the prisons wouldn't be so full, the threat of prison is obviously not working anymore . I wonder why?.

---

The threat of prison has never worked Saasher, they have always been full! I too think of the victims, the best way to prevent them from being victims is to prevent potential offenders from offending. Prevention is best!

I don't waste time feeling sorry for offenders but I do take factors into consideration. If you think the answer is to lock up all poorly educated and unethical people permanently, to protect the remainder of society from them then that's your prerogative, but I think we'll need more prisons! Most offending takes place by people who have no stake in life, no benchmark, little guidance and no support.

I used to have a similar attitude to yours, I came from a background where I had to work hard for the average existance I lead. I had a head-strong attitude that if I can get off my ass and strive to improve my circomstances then so can all others. But then I came to appreciate how fortunate I have been also; to have the support of family and friends, to have a safety net under me should I be struggling through troubled times. To have been provided for by a family who knew the value of education and parental guidance. Well what about people who have terrible parental guidance leading to little education and low moral standards?! What about those who don't have family or friends with the ways or means to support or help or catch them if they fall?!

I left school with next to no qualifications and I resented the scroats I went to school with because they were to blame. So when I'd completed an apprenticeship, worked in **bleep**py jobs from the age of 16, then gained a Degree and finally 15 years after leaving school secured a job that paid a bit above the national average; I thought I was great and that all should learn from my experience and do the same themselves. But I hadn't achieved this on my own; I'd had support all the way, I just didn't recognise it, but now I appreciate it! So be thankful for all you are, and have a care for those not so fortunate, many don't want to live the lives they lead, or know no better!!!