Is this the way to solve the problem of the Calais 'Jungle' migrant campers?

[merehazle]

Or to encourage it?   They are on French land.   It has long since been that they should have dealt with it.

The waiting game! The reward is free housing, education health service, pensions. And of course a life time of free pocket money. And when they bring their extended family over the same. The UK the promised land. Where the tax payer writes open

cheques for everything. And how on earth can we trust them all? We cant it is to dangerous.

[lucybelle2006]

Why on earth should anyone, even fit young men, be expected to pick up a gun and fight. Just because your mother happens to be in a certain country 9 months after a romantic interlude with your father, doesn't mean you owe that country anything. If the **bleep** hits the fan, you get the **bleep** out! Especially when the whole world starts dropping bombs. No amount of getting a gun and running towards it is going to help anyone.

Trumps "solution" is to divide people more and make it a religion versus religion thing, which would just prove to the terrorists that they are right. If you push a group of people away then they will join "the other side" just to survive.

In the last few weeks, as a hemisphere, we have agreed to murder millions of innocent people and pass it off as "collateral damage" if this man becomes president and we continue our alliance with America, then I can see this going the way of world war 2. Except we will be the nazis.

It's terrifying that we don't appear to be learning from germanys mistakes, but we are now at the stage of hitlers election campaign. Let's hope our neighbours across the water don't go down that path

[merehazle]

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@lucybelle2006 wrote:
Why on earth should anyone, even fit young men, be expected to pick up a gun and fight. Just because your mother happens to be in a certain country 9 months after a romantic interlude with your father, doesn't mean you owe that country anything. If the **bleep** hits the fan, you get the **bleep** out! Especially when the whole world starts dropping bombs. No amount of getting a gun and running towards it is going to help anyone.

Trumps "solution" is to divide people more and make it a religion versus religion thing, which would just prove to the terrorists that they are right. If you push a group of people away then they will join "the other side" just to survive.

In the last few weeks, as a hemisphere, we have agreed to murder millions of innocent people and pass it off as "collateral damage" if this man becomes president and we continue our alliance with America, then I can see this going the way of world war 2. Except we will be the nazis.

It's terrifying that we don't appear to be learningfromgermanys mistakes, but we are now at the stageofhitlers election campaign. Let's hope our neighbours across the water don't go down that path

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Well thank you for that? But I think your reply must be to others on here (look carefully and see). There is a thread on Trumps. If you wish to ask me a question on MY thread about what I said. I will try to answer. Maybe tonight. I would guess that someone might have something about your comment above.  Good luck! 

Oh... I often think nowadays, that for so many of us it might have been better had we stayed like these beautiful creatures:  see attachment. I have, that's me, the laid-back one 

[lucybelle2006]

Sorry, I'm on the mobile site, so can't reply to individual posters

[evoman3957]

Ok, so having a Daughter on the very front line of things over there; here's my sixpence worth......for what it's worth. First & foremost, unpalatable as it may be, it's going to take money and resources. ALL those in Calais are rounded up "En Masse" and taken to a SECURE Camp in France, away from Calais; because the people of Calais have had a "gut full" as well and they want their Town back ( not unreasonably ). Those in the "Jungle" MUST.....ALL......be rounded up, because in their midst are the gangs & extremists, that I previously mention and they CANNOT be allowed to escape being weeded out and dealt with. The remainder must be processed properly and any applications for asylum dealt with properly. Those with no direct connection to the UK must be asked ( and provide an acceptable excuse ) as to why they want to come to the UK specifically and not other EU Countries ( particularly the one they first arrived at ). If they are truly fleeing persecution and or potential death, of themselves or their Families, why are they then "Cherry Picking" the Countries they want to live in and not being content to be safe, secure and in work ( eventually ) in one of the other many EU Countries. Economic migrants MUST be repatriated, because not to do so sends out the wrong message. The Camp they are all held in, while being processed, although secure; must have full facilities and be suitable for human habitation eg. washing, cooking, eating, bathing, sleeping, etc. etc. It must become widespread knowledge, that "Harsh" punishment will be dished out to those seeking to abuse the system; with the harshest being for gangs, gangmasters, extremists, traffickers and those found guilty of criminal activities. If there are not enough Police, alone, to oversee this process, the Army should be drafted in, to either supplement the Police, or run things for those Civilians processing those seeking entry to the UK / EU.

There is no point, either, at baulking at the cost of repatriating those that need to be repatriated; it HAS to be done. Please lets also grow up and get real and don't treat them like we treat prisoners in open Prisons, by releasing them under their own recognisance and then being surprised when they run off.

Well that's just off the cuff and obviously the detail needs to be ironed out, but at least I can't be accused of not trying to find an answer to the problem.......

...........and as a problem shared is a problem halved, we split the cost with France, although the whole of Europe should be contributing to this problem........as they let them through.

[upthecreekyetagain]

In comparison to other 'camps' housing immigrants the unofficial ones in Calais pale into insignificance.  Personally I do feel it is up to Europe, not just the French, to find an answer - the first step I would take is that proposed for other camps.

Setup 'holding areas' with full health, education and leisure facilities, financed by the EU from contributions by member states, and move those individuals without valid documentation allowing residence in France to those areas.

Once in the holding areas then individuals and families would have a simple choice, apply for asylum, offer to return home or remain in the holding area. 

A similar system would need to be setup in each EU country and quotas agreed by them to take in those granted asylum irrespective of which country the claim for asylum was made.

Such a system would make the migration of refugees and immigrants across Europe pointless because no matter where they reached and then claimed asylum they would be held in similar circumstances and if asylum were granted there would be no guarantee that they would remain in the country in which they made the original claim.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Evo - my apologies - didn't see your post before posting my 'solution' - it looks like we are thinking along similar lines.

[astrologica]

Lucybelle...if you love your country you would fight for it. Obviously these people do not love their countries. What is to say that if they come here to live that they would love this country.  There are many people who have come to this country to live, who do not love the place they should call home. They just want to hurt us and change our way of life. How many of those are there living in the camp at Calais, just waiting to come here and do the same? I don't know how old you are, but I have been around a while, and I remember my parents and grandparents talking about WW2, and the sacrifices they made to save this country from Nazis.  If you live in a country you should love it and fight for it, and try to make it a place you can love and be proud of. Every November we here on this board, and all over this country, remember the sacrifices made by Young British men, and women, to make this country what it is, (or was.) where would we be now without those people who did not turn and run. No-one likes the thought of war and what it entails, but we have to stand up against evil. And we do not want people living here who are not prepared to do that.

And as for Germany....they are one of the causes of this humanitarian disaster. And what are they doing?

[joe_bloggs*]

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@astrologica wrote:

Lucybelle...if you love your country you would fight for it. Obviously these people do not love their countries. What is to say that if they come here to live that they would love this country.  There are many people who have come to this country to live, who do not love the place they should call home. They just want to hurt us and change our way of life. How many of those are there living in the camp at Calais, just waiting to come here and do the same? I don't know how old you are, but I have been around a while, and I remember my parents and grandparents talking about WW2, and the sacrifices they made to save this country from Nazis.  If you live in a country you should love it and fight for it, and try to make it a place you can love and be proud of. Every November we here on this board, and all over this country, remember the sacrifices made by Young British men, and women, to make this country what it is, (or was.) where would we be now without those people who did not turn and run. No-one likes the thought of war and what it entails, but we have to stand up against evil. And we do not want people living here who are not prepared to do that.

And as for Germany....they are one of the causes of this humanitarian disaster. And what are they doing?

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How about those people who opposed both the Iraq war and the bombing of Syria? do you not want those people living here?

You can still love the country you live in but refuse to fight in uneccesary wars which will make us less safe and encourage more refugees fleeing our bombs to try and come here,already many innocent civilians have been killed by "coalition" bombs,but as CD says if they are in the way they "Get bumped off too"

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@astrologica wrote:

Lucybelle...if you love your country you would fight for it. Obviously these people do not love their countries. What is to say that if they come here to live that they would love this country.  There are many people who have come to this country to live, who do not love the place they should call home. They just want to hurt us and change our way of life. How many of those are there living in the camp at Calais, just waiting to come here and do the same? I don't know how old you are, but I have been around a while, and I remember my parents and grandparents talking about WW2, and the sacrifices they made to save this country from Nazis.  If you live in a country you should love it and fight for it, and try to make it a place you can love and be proud of. Every November we here on this board, and all over this country, remember the sacrifices made by Young British men, and women, to make this country what it is, (or was.) where would we be now without those people who did not turn and run. No-one likes the thought of war and what it entails, but we have to stand up against evil. And we do not want people living here who are not prepared to do that.

And as for Germany....they are one of the causes of this humanitarian disaster. And what are they doing?

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"Fight for it" on which side - the wars in Syria, Afghanistan, Sudan etc are not a case of nations under threat by other nations - they are civil wars.

Do the rebels in Syria love their country? - well obviously not according to your definition, they are fighting the internationally recognised government of that country yet we as a country are dropping bombs to support their efforts.  What about the Kurds?

Yes the vast majority of British fought bravely in the two world wars - the majority though had to be conscripted.  Did those who were conscripted love their country any less than those that volunteered?

[astrologica]

We have had civil wars in this country . People chose their affiliations and fought, for whatever they thought would make their country better.

[evoman3957]

We don't ask to be Born and we don't ask to Die, but ultimately we have control ; at least over one of those two.  For those that rather live on their Knees, you can only run so far in life; the World is round and there's nowhere you can hide forever.  If you want somewhere you can call Home, sooner or later you're going to have to stand and defend it.

[joe_bloggs*]

It's not about eleminating terrorists,follow the money,As General Wesley Clark says about the middle east,if there was no oil,we wouldn't be there

[upthecreekyetagain]

But time is a great healer - Vikings, Romans, Normans to name just three.

Should the Scots, the Welsh, Irish or those from Cornwall still be fighting.  The USA is what it is because of those who didn't stay to fight.

[right-then-petal]

they did in Braveheart i seen the film

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@astrologica wrote:

We have had civil wars in this country . People chose their affiliations and fought, for whatever they thought would make their country better.

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Indeed and one side won without outside forces dropping bombs on them.  We set the stage for many of the disputes and continue to do so by favouring one side or the other and yet you expect those fleeing from the conflicts to go back and sort out our mess.

[astrologica]

It isn't all our mess. Indeed, if we had never had any hand in it,they would still be fighting each other...Sunni against Shia and all the other factions trying to wipe each other out.

[artful_dodgings]

First class posts Evoman, @ #9 & #24. With regards to the latter, proof if proof were needed that the sensible and brainy people are amongst the general populous, while the Politicians are in Westminster.

[lucybelle2006]

I certainly do not "love my country" I am here for no other reason than an accident of birth that was beyond my control. It's a stupid piece of land run by a government that constantly looks for new ways to kill innocent people. I go out to work all day every day, leaving the house before my children wake up and getting home just in time to say goodnight for enough money to scrape by. I'll likely be doing this until I'm at least in my 70s, if I make it that long. If I could, I would be out of here like a shot, and that's without a civil war or bombs dropping from the sky!

I certainly wouldn't consider killing for it

[merehazle]

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@lucybelle2006 wrote:
Sorry, I'm on the mobile site, so can't reply to individual posters

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   How bizarre ?! 

Ah...shame. And now we may never know? That must be very frustrating for you. I do wonder how it doesn't work though? I thought you already had here on this very thread twice.  And again at #38.  

Well... make this part of the answer to your #38 too. I must say I'm getting lost on what you are on about? And at #38 too? Again perhaps you should read the thread again and refer it to who said what? Good night.  We must walk our dogs now.

[evoman3957]

That same accident of Birth could have put you in Liberia & made you an Ebola victim, or in Iraq, or in Afghanistan, or in Syria, or in Pakistan or Saudi Arabia......where you would have been stoned ,or beaten to death; for just saying what you posted. There are endless examples, where that accident of Birth could have made you considerably worse off. Places where you wouldn't have even had to worry about getting to work, at all, because you wouldn't have been allowed to work. I'm not saying this Country is perfect, but the list of places where it's better to live; is considerably shorter, than the list of places where it's worse to live.......and getting shorter by the day. What really annoys Me, is that this Country never reaches its full potential; because of the people who run it, doing the wrong things for the wrong reasons........and forgetting so easily, the millions that DID die for it; hoping and believing it would be the best it could be.............despite bowing their Heads at the Cenotaph, in political correctness; instead of meaningful remorse.