IDS/Wealthy pensioners should hand back benefits.Doyou agree?.

[margaret*e]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22327335

[bankhaunter]

Bank - that assumes a means-tested benefit should/would be an all or nothing benefit rather than a graded one.

True, how they would go about it is a matter of conjecture.

Unfortunately with pensioners at the moment there is a whole swathe of benefits that depend on the person's eligibility to claim pension credit, be a few pence over and you get none of them.

The same is probably true elsewhere in the system.

[upthecreekyetagain]

Small point creeky, women (of my age) got their pension at 60. I know it was recently changed.

I read your letter from the DWP. I didn't get that claim letter, the fuel payment was just automatically credited to my bank account later in the year presumably because I had completed the state pension info.  I hadn't claimed any benefits either. I only discovered it quite by accident when checking my account on line.  Maybe one rule for men and one for women... 😉 

I'm not due a pension until  I'm 65 and as such have not filled in any details regarding pension payments, including bank details.  As such there is no way the DWP could make a payment direct to my bank.

Men are/were entitled to the winter fuel allowance from the age of 60 just like women.

[hansrey64]

Wrong about the TV licence, as they do not know your date of birth, my dad was 74 last week and on the back of his tv licensing form it says when you reach 74 years of age contact us.

So, I am sending a letter with a copy of his birth certificate.

True about fuel allowance as my mum and dad (when my mum was alive) never claimed it but it was automatically put in their bank accounts, it got paid because the anybody who has a state pension gets it automatically.

[joe_bloggs*]

Interesting article from The British Medical Journal - The assault on universalism: how to destroy the welfare state

"So for those who wish to destroy the European model of welfare state, the structural weaknesses of social welfare in the United States offer an attractive model.

First, create an identifiable group of undeserving poor. Second, create a system in which the rich see little benefit flowing back to them from their taxes. Third, diminish the role of trade unions, portraying them as pursuing the narrow interests of their members rather than, as is actually the case, recognising that high rates of trade union membership have historically benefited the general population.

Finally, as Reagan did when cutting welfare in the 1980s, do so in a way that attracts as little attention as possible, putting in place policies whose implications are unclear and whose effects will only be seen in the future. All these strategies can be seen in the UK today.

As MP Peter Hain says in the Guardian:

"For lower earners these benefits are a few comforts guaranteed to them in old age, for middle to higher earners one of the few rewards received for consistent contributions to the welfare pot throughout their working lives. They are a symbol of senior citizenship and social cohesion....Cutting or means-testing pensioners' allowances risks turning young against old and rich against poor while making negligible savings for the Treasury. All parties should be challenged to maintain them in their 2015 manifestos, as they did in 2010, and Labour should certainly stick by the policy"

[lhasa.two]

Men are/were entitled to the winter fuel allowance from the age of 60 just like women.

I sit corrected as I didn't know that, thought it was 65 for chaps. 🙂

You might as well claim your fuel allowance as it'll only sit in some government department gathering dust! You could then give it to a charity.

[rosestudios]

Definately not. I may now be classed as one of the wealthy pensioners but I didn't notice at anytime during the past 50 years I was working my 'balls' off to pay it all into all the private and government schemes and making my family go without while I built something up with the intention I wasn't going to spend my retirement as my parents had without anything. that the governments of the time were saying 'well done you' heres a little something to help you along in way of some tax reductions.  So why should I fel the need to help them now? IDS is in a cloud cuckoo land. He really needs to look back at his previous Tory Governments to realise why we 'Baby Boomers' will not vote for his lot again.

[babyface21-uk]

Wealthy pensioners should hand back benefits. Do you agree?. No, I don't.

I know for a fact that in some areas, those who feel that they don't need the winter fuel allowance, donate it to a non-profiting charity which is registered to help those pensioners who are vulnerable and need extra money to keep warm during the winter months, which I think is a fantastic idea :-x

[upthecreekyetagain]

I can understand the apparent attraction of "donating" unneeded benefit payments to a charity - but when you think about it what right does an individual have to decide that money provided by millions of taxpayers, or the even greater number of millions who will be responsible for repaying money borrowed to provide these benefits, should be spent in any way other than how the democratically elected government has decided it should be spent - if you don't need it either don't claim it or return it - even better IMO make all benefits means-tested then the question won't even arise.

[bankhaunter]

should be spent in any way other than how the democratically elected government has decided it should be spent

No government tells me what I must spend my pension on, I do with it what I like.

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

Thing is, Creeky, if it is returned to the Government, they will probably spend more on the process of recollecting it than the amount they actually reclaim. 

Also, to take your argument that these "benefits" should only be used as intended further, then surely only people over the age of 75 should watch any TV where the licence is free and other, younger household members should be restricted from doing so. 😉

Personally, I'd sooner almost all benefits were amalgamated into a better pension for the poorest.  It would be cheaper to administer and people would know where they stood. 🙂

[upthecreekyetagain]

Personally, I'd sooner almost all benefits were amalgamated into a better pension for the poorest.  It would be cheaper to administer and people would know where they stood.

I agree, as long as it doesn't entail borrowing yet more money in order to do so.

[spawnjohnuk]

I think IDS should be hacked.

[upthecreekyetagain]

"Hacked"

Wouldn't that be illegal 😄

[spawnjohnuk]

:^O only just 

[kiss*my*pixel]

In Wales that could be "Cacked" - but means something entirely different . . .:|  :^O

[kiss*my*pixel]

There might be a dangerous possibility that some pensioners may feel pressurised into giving up their legitimate benefit, thinking that someone else is worse off than they are, give up their heating allowance, for instance, and then be sitting in the cold themselves.

Maybe they should be awarded their allowance, then give it up to a charity 'pot' if they so choose.

If they simply refuse it, the money will go back into the government pocket, and no pensioners will benefit.

Bus passes have to be physically claimed, I think, nowadays, they're not awarded automatically. I think . . .

[bankhaunter]

Bus passes have to be physically claimed,

They do because a passport picture is needed.

It's a bit of a red herring though because as I said earlier, wealthy pensioners don't use them, they use cars.

Nor do others that I know as they don't have any buses to use them on.

[kiss*my*pixel]

Joanna Lumley uses hers, a lot, apparently, according to her. She's a very wealthy pensioner who wouldn't need it and needn't have applied for it (don't ask me to provide a link, I'm no good at it, I heard it on the tv a couple of days ago) 😄

I know, this is just one example out of thousands, but there must be others . . .

[upthecreekyetagain]

Why can't universal benefits such as the winter allowance and bus passes be linked to other benefits?

That way there would be no need for any additional means testing.

[bankhaunter]

The snag with that it becomes a case of all or nothing.

A lot already depends if the person can claim pension credit, a friend who when they checked had an income just a few pounds above the limit, found they also could get no help with funeral costs and had to find nearly £3,000.

That also includes things like dental treatment, glasses etc.

With bus passes, if they were income based, many who be eligible simply wouldn't get one, not many would want to display the fact they had a low income to the general public.