Democracy?

[cee-dee]

Just what is this Democracy?

It's supposed to be "The Rule of the People" isn't it?

These days some seem to think it's the will of the people as defined by a majority vote...... that is, just so long as it goes your way? If the democratic vote doesn't go your way, then the empty kettles kick off and demand another vote until it does go your way? That's Democracy?

Here we have a couple of different illustrations of the will of the majority being questioned:-

First we have the referendum, the majority vote was to leave the EU so now the "remainers" want another vote because the first didn't go their way.

Secondly we have the strange situation where Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party by a members vote but now 170 odd members of his team have lost confidence in his leadership and there's been mass resignation amongst the shadow cabinet but agitating members are saying he was elected as leader by the democratic vote of members so he should remain as leader.

Who's he going to lead if a large slice of the parliamentary Labour party have no confidence in him and won't work "under" him?

Simplifying things a little, it's a bit like the members of the Manchester United board and members of the team saying they've no confidence in the manager and won't work with him but the fan club say he's the man for the job and say he should remain?

Soooooo, where does the above leave "Democracy"?

[mikes*corvettes]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

No, however those in Ebbw Vale get the highest amount of EU funding and they voted to leave.

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What does that tell you ?

[bankhaunter]

People don't vote with their heads.

[evoman3957]

They don't think with them much either.

[bankhaunter]

Apparently one said he voted to leave because he didn't like the Welsh Government.

[evoman3957]

Do you know what I heard the most from people voting to remain......." Oh well, better the devil you know ".  So following on logically from that, we won't try to get out of whatever sewer life may put us into; because we may end up in a bigger one. Now there's REAL ambition and effort to improve your lot in life. The point is BOTH sides schemed, wheeled and dealed in equal measure; so all we had to go on, is how it's been for the last 40 odd years. Most of those that remember the promises that were made, when we joined and WHAT we joined THEN; probably voted to leave.  Those that were too young then, or not even born, know nothing else; so probably voted to remain. You couldn't get a fairer voting system than one person one vote, indeed some have been trying to get that system for years in general elections ( to no avail ). So that's democracy, sometimes you win and sometimes you lose; because all the people don't want the same things all of the time. For those that aren't mature enough to cope with democracy, I suggest they go and live somewhere else, with a much more simplistic and primitive form of governance.

[mikes*corvettes]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

People don't vote with their heads.

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I take it you voted remain.

[astrologica]

I thought not. So if you don't live there, or in any of the Welsh valleys that voted in droves to leave, how can you possibly comment knowledgeably on their decision to vote to leave? Yes...we have some funding from the EU, but do you know the effects of that funding? I very much doubt it. And it is not EU money....it is our money. Money that they take...cream some off to plump up their bloated fat cats with their noses in the troughs, like the Kinnock millionaires, and then toss a few scraps back our way. Oh...and with conditions. 

And as I have said before on these threads...If our government don't come up with the goods, we will be able to throw them out, unlike the panjandrums in Brussels.

[l111da]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

People don't vote with their heads.

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Correct - people voted with their hearts, which is far more worthy!

As Digby Jones said the other day, the great thing about this referendum was people did not vote for money, (apart for remain that is)!

I personally stand to lose quite a lot, but I truly believe in the long term this is the right decision.

The only question I have about the whole issue is - 'Do we have the politicians who are capable of doing the job correctly'?. I find it amazing that when Philip Hammond was talking the other day he confirmed that countries like Australia and New Zealand were queueing up to do trade deals with us. 'But it was not right to enter discussions at this time' - Oh really, what an ass!

He added we did not have enough civil servants to deal with the trade enquiries and we might have to look overseas!

Is this country no good at doing anything any more???? We need overseas footballers, overseas managers (to manage England), overseas civil servants, overseas fruit pickers, overseas NHS Staff, - maybe we need an overseas Government???

Oh silly me we had one it was called the EU!!!

[l111da]

Forgot to add overseas Bank of England Governors!

[bankhaunter]

So if you don't live there, or in any of the Welsh valleys that voted in droves to leave,

I'm not exactly a long distance away.

If our government don't come up with the goods, we will be able to throw them out,

How do you think those poor areas of the country got into those positions in the first place?

In the constituency where I live, no MP of a ruling party has ever been elected in over 30 years.