Democracy?

[cee-dee]

Just what is this Democracy?

It's supposed to be "The Rule of the People" isn't it?

These days some seem to think it's the will of the people as defined by a majority vote...... that is, just so long as it goes your way? If the democratic vote doesn't go your way, then the empty kettles kick off and demand another vote until it does go your way? That's Democracy?

Here we have a couple of different illustrations of the will of the majority being questioned:-

First we have the referendum, the majority vote was to leave the EU so now the "remainers" want another vote because the first didn't go their way.

Secondly we have the strange situation where Corbyn was elected leader of the Labour Party by a members vote but now 170 odd members of his team have lost confidence in his leadership and there's been mass resignation amongst the shadow cabinet but agitating members are saying he was elected as leader by the democratic vote of members so he should remain as leader.

Who's he going to lead if a large slice of the parliamentary Labour party have no confidence in him and won't work "under" him?

Simplifying things a little, it's a bit like the members of the Manchester United board and members of the team saying they've no confidence in the manager and won't work with him but the fan club say he's the man for the job and say he should remain?

Soooooo, where does the above leave "Democracy"?

[astrologica]

I'm getting a bit tired of disgruntled 'Remain' voters speaking of 'Leave' voters in those terms.....that they sort of feel a bit sorry for us because we were 'mislead' or 'lied to'. Very patronising. I, and I suspect millions of others, had long since turned a deaf ear to the numbers and statistics thrown at us at every opportunity, by both sides of the campaign. I voted leave because of what I could see with my own eyes....in the Mediterranean, in Calais, in the poor Boroughs of London, and in every large town in the UK. What we see with our own eyes cannot be lies. And researching back through the history of the EU...the deceit and underhandedness....that research is not lies either.....it is fact.

So please....disgruntled remainers...do not use that excuse,that we were lied to....it won't wash. It's done, and that's an end to it.

[mikes*corvettes]

Who's to say that if there was another referendum that that the leave vote wouldn't be even bigger.



A lot of people who voted remain who bought in to all the scaremongering by the remain camp now they've seen it's not the end of the world with a leave outcome will I bet now vote OUT.

[l111da]

I am sick to death of the remain campaign insisting leavers have changed their minds! I certainly have not - the referendum was run and the decision was made - LEAVE!

All I can see is more spin and lies being told by remain as project fear continues - all because we ticked the wrong box!

If the facebook campaigners wish to demonstrate between telling each other online about their sad little 'social' lives - that's fine too. BUT if the government refuses to take the action that the majority decided upon... or even worse renege on that decision, then they are asking for a civil war! That's the possible outcome of this - no one has said it yet, but feelings and tempers are running high.

Finally as for the legal challenge to the decision, maybe we should be told who these companies behind this action are so we have the opportunity to show them some people power and boycott their services or goods!

[bankhaunter]

Or possibly many of those who voted to leave but have now realised how they were deliberately lied to, might vote the other way.

Another referendum would be a nonsense, it reminds of a line in a book where two groups are about to fight over cheese. "If we win you will join us, if you win we will keep coming back until we win".

However the fact remains that to hold a referendum on a complicated question and where a simple majority would decide one way or the other, was an incredibly stupid way to behave.

That's why we have a Parliament.

[cee-dee]

Can you imagine what would be said if there had been an election and when one side "won", the other side kept badgering for a re-run claiming that if another election was held people would change their minds and vote the other way?

A football team win the game after a very hard-fought game and the losers badger for the result to be declared null and void because........... (perm any 50 reasons from 100).......

Who's to say that those who voted to remain wouldn't now change their minds and vote leave?

[evoman3957]

This pathetic species have had it too good, for too long.........THAT's the problem. The older generation know what hell looks like, close up, the others.........well they'd just die of fright; if it even got close.  That's what happens when you cosset a generation, think for them, provide for them and take away their natural survival instincts..........they have to have somebody there to " cuddle " them if the going gets tough. Give me a Wolf, instead of 10,000 Sheep..........any day.

[john.b74]

http://www.itv.com/news/story/2016-07-04/live-updates-farage-resigns-as-ukip-leader/

[celticthebhoys585]

Good.Sick of looking at the racist bigot. I hope they tell him he'll need to pay for his own dental treatment too,as it's about time he sorted them out!

[mikes*corvettes]

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@bankhaunter wrote:

Or possibly many of those who voted to leave but have now realised how they were deliberately lied to, might vote the other way.

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I think most sensible grown ups know the difference between an election and a referendum.

We were not voting to elect a new goverment based on that party's manifesto.

This was two camps expressing their point of view.

In fact the only side that could do as they said was the remain camp, and knowing this full well that they held this power they lied through their teeth and tried to stifle us voting out with threats of a budget which they said we would be made to pay for voting out.

[bankhaunter]

I'm amazed that anyone could possibly think a second referendum was anything but a non starter.

As for what the result would be, who can tell?  I'm willing to bet there were those who voted to leave as a protest never thinking it would actually happen, or those that didn't vote being content with the status quo and thinking it would remain that way.

There were others who possibly voted to remain for no good reason and have been jolted into giving it more thought.

People have been used to the ability to change things after a few years at the most, it probably didn't sink in with many that the referendum was a vote for keeps.

[astrologica]

You mean to say that the 'remainers' didn't lie! Armageddon? WW3, Financial meltdown? Pensions disappearing? FGS.....people with any brains were able to look beyond that...and decide for themselves.

[astrologica]

I 💜 Nigel! 😄😄😄

[john.b74]

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@astrologica wrote:

I 💜 Nigel! 😄😄😄

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I liked his mate.    

Enoch Powell was arguably the most divisive politician in twentieth century after his infamous "rivers of blood" speech on immigration in 1968.

Still both reviled and despised years after his death in 1998, aged 85, the former MP unwittingly became a poster boy for far-right politics in Britain, his moustachioed face and anti-immigration quotes

[bankhaunter]

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@astrologica wrote:

You mean to say that the 'remainers' didn't lie! Armageddon? WW3, Financial meltdown? Pensions disappearing? FGS.....people with any brains were able to look beyond that...and decide for themselves.

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Not necessarily just that Brexit campaigned under a large banner that was a clear falsehood and which carried an implication of a benefit that was never going to happen

[astrologica]

So what is the difference between one side saying they would spend X amount on the Health Service, and the other side saying that our Pensions were at risk, and the financial markets would go into meltdown? Misleading, or 'economy with the truth' is just the same, which ever side it comes from,or whatever form it takes.

[bankhaunter]

One is a deliberate lie and the other is an opinion.

[astrologica]

Opinion? Are you having a laugh? Those were downright threats...and that is why the 'leave' voters ignored them. Most Brits don't like being threatened.....especially the Welsh.

[bankhaunter]

If a person is about to go to sea in a boat of uncertain seaworthiness, there is a big difference between someone stating it will probably sink and another giving it a certificate of seaworthiness which was falsified..

Some of the Welsh were turkeys voting for Christmas, particulary those in Ebbw Vale.

[astrologica]

Do you live in Ebbw Vale?

[bankhaunter]

No, however those in Ebbw Vale get the highest amount of EU funding and they voted to leave.

Like Cornwall, they will have to look to the Government in future and I don't give much for their chances.