Death of the High Street?

[cee-dee]

Many towns have lots of empty shops and "the media" often mention the death of the High Street and some are blaming online trading for the demise.

However, is that really the case? Might it not be that really there were just too many shops selling the same stuff and also that tastes have changed?

We now see HMV is "in trouble" again and is it just the case of them selling what people are less inclined to buy these days?

Things change don't they? Remember all the shops that opened selling/renting video tapes?

Finally, might it be that we already have everything and need much less these days to go along with the minimalist culture?

So, what's your take on the situation?

[1956glyn]

Hi

My son is 28 and never ever buys from the High Street.  Absolutely everything he buys (which is quite a lot) is ordered online.   Even his contact lenses.     His friends do similar so must be a generation thing.

Being older......my husband and I do go in person to the High Street Stores and rarely buy online.   I say high street but most of the big name retailers are now moving to trading estates away from the City Centre.  I think the last time i actually went to the city centre to shop...must be 3 years ago !

[dark_castle1]

In my opinion the death of the high street is down to a number of factors, retail parks which give the shopper convenience as they can park up in one place and just walk a few metres to get anything they want, actual parking these days because in high streets the parking is very limited if any at all, the buying power of supermarket chains who now can sell you almost anything you want, the rates councils put on shops because they seem to want them out and moved into retail parks and last but not least online shopping.

Just a few suggestions in my opinion.

[dark_castle1]

No no no Shirl, more mature and discerning is the phrase.

[1956glyn]

This is so true 🙂

We like to see the actual item in our hands before we part with our cash.   I just could not be bothered having the hassle returning anything.

Hmm this is also prob why we very rarely buy on Ebay.

TO THE MODS.......do not reprimand any poster for using our Christian names as they all have express permission to do so.

[dark_castle1]

Very true, I like to see and feel what I intend to buy before parting with cash. How could you ever decide on say a three piece suite if all you have seen is an online picture ! It very well might be not comfortable to sit on and not really what you were looking for.

[cee-dee]

The points raised are all valid BUT (you knew there was going to a "but"?) remember when it was enjoyable "going shopping"?

A trip to town was more like an outing? You more or less knew what you were going for and where you were going so you first had a wander round all the side streets and little shops, perhaps buying the odd things here and there? You then went for a drink and a bite to eat before heading off to buy the main thing(s) you'd gone in to town for?

After that, you wandered back to your car and happily went home.

Unfortunately now to park your car without either having to dash back (because of time limits) or having to pay through the nose you have to walk sooooooo far that really, you can't be bothered?

Town centres are now either all "bricked" or "slabbed" and one looks very much like any other and as far as quickly nipping in to the centre to pick something up, just forget it.

[fallen-archie]

I cannot remember the last time I went shopping in town, I think it was to get my eyes tested 5 years ago! Even that has moved to an out of town shopping centre, where despite the presence of all the usual fast food outlets, Nando’s,KFC, McDs, subway etc many of the large stores have gone phut, ToysRus, etc and others have downsized Hobbycraft, Boots etc, going into a city or large town these days is a pain, we have designated bus routes which if you are caught driving along you get an instant fine, the car parks are often so tight that parking becomes a nightmare, the lifts smell of urine and there are rough sleepers all over! What Town centres need is a new grand design, one which switches the emphasis towards living spaces with a condensed yet vibrant centre in which people feel safe and restaurants and pubs are plentiful! There needs to be a greater emphasis on green spaces too, where people can mix with nature and breath fresh air. If you have a captive audience then the shops will be viable, the only thing that keeps many towns going is the student community who are living amongst some pretty grim buildings! On line shopping is so convenient however the more we do it the less we interact with people face to face, unless of course you count the signature you give to the delivery man, but slowly we are becoming more and more reclusive allowing ourselves to be taken over by technology, so the wheel always turns full circle let us hope it does so too for our town centres.

[dark_castle1]

Another thing is how many people have been encompassed in their own little bubble and to be perfectly honest pass you by but never really see you. I could count on one hand how many times on passing someone you get a smile or even a nod of acknowledgement. I always try to say hello to people even just passing them by and you should see some of the strange looks I get.  You used to at least get an acknowledgment in the days when high streets were vibrant and people showed a bit of courtesy to each other.

[dark_castle1]

Another thing I have noticed although nothing to do with the death of the high street, the loss of excuse me, thank you, please and holding the door open for someone else. I always think the showing of acknowledgement of someone might lift their spirits a bit, they could be lonely, feeling down and that bit of courtesy might just help raise their spirits because someone saw them and acknowledged their existence.

[joe_bloggs*]

It's a mixture,more online shopping as most couples are now working so have less time to do physical shopping,also high rent/rates,didn't Sports direct threaten to close shops unless they got lower rents,you also have small businesses in competition with the likes of Amazon who barely pay any tax

[cee-dee]

The "out of town" places are not immune from lack of sales. The homebase here closed because they couldn't agree a lower rent with their landlord and I know the rent was over £7,500 A WEEK.  That means they had to make that much profit just to pay the rent never mind the rates, heat and light plus the staff.

I think all MPs and councillors should have experience in running their own business before moving on in to politics because I think lots of them believe that running a business is a licence to print money when in actual fact for many small business owners it's a licence to worry yourself silly!

[upthecreekyetagain]

Over the years I had a shop in Brighton, Crawley and Wandsworth - in all cases the business rates were higher than the rent which in itself was exorbitant for what it was.

The taxes that small retailers face, rates, corporation tax, VAT, employers NI, make it virtually impossible to survive unless they can grow very quickly.  

[cee-dee]

"grow very quickly" = rip people off to get rich quick?

[fallen-archie]

It’s a similar story with pubs, the landlord has to pay a huge rent, he then gets stung by business rates, and despite his ability to buy different beers he must do it through the named supplier which means he normally ends up paying more than the general public do in a supermarket. What Is rarely mentioned is the fact that VAT is collected free of charge by all businesses, and this also applies to large online retailers which along with duty on fuel really does eat into ones available expenditure.
Capitalism is failing however there are no realistic alternatives which encourage innovation whilst taking care of the sick and disabled!

[joe_bloggs*]

Vulture funds don't help :

Vulture fund Hilco "Capital took £48m from ailing HMV

Collapsed chain paid millions to owner Hilco — and no corporation tax"

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/business/vulture-fund-hilco-capital-took-48m-from-ailing-hmv-88dn...

Didn't the same happen with Maplins ? new owners taking out massive loans etc,

[theelench]

My take on the "Death of the High Street" and for the last couple of years the steep decline at the local retail park is that there have been large dollops of complacency by the local authority and the store owners.

It has been noticeable that the pre-Christmas "rush" hasn't been happening in the High Street for years.  But having lived a ten minute walk from the local out-of-town shopping zone for fifteen years it has also been noticeable for a couple of years that the same sort of decline has set in there also.

This year it was almost a pleasure to drive through the area as there were very few traffic hold-ups  --  a few years ago the area was approaching grid-lock and mile long queues getting in or out common-place.  The wand-waving parking helpers were wandering around looking for drivers to direct when I went there the Saturday before Christmas and again on Christmas Eve.

The Council helped finish off the High Street by yellow lining every available free parking spot in a bid to squeeze as much as possible out of shoppers.  Landlords did their bit by charging increasingly unrealistic rents for shops that were in reality on their last legs.

The larger retailers deserted to the retail park, for bigger stores, easier deliveries and free car parks, cheered on by the council as they took the buyers and staff with them.  For the council  it was a win-win situation, derelict shops were sold off and converted into flats paying Council Tax and they still got the Business Rates from the retail park.  Lucky landlords sold out for inflated High Street prices.  Even those who hung on too long have still made money with property price inflation.

All they have really done is moved the over-priced High Street stores to the over-priced retail park and taken the congestion there as well.  The High Street thought it was THE place to shop, it over-sold itself.  The retail park is now repeating the same sad story IMO. 

With continuous and ever more desperate sales why bother going shopping at all?  Find what you want on-line, a quick drive out on a week-day afternoon when all is quiet and parking spaces plentiful and it's job done. 

[celticthebhoys585]

Always amazes me is Joe. All these massive online/offiline companies get huge bale-outs time and time again.The directors are never ever short of a few bob with wages + bonuses and still when they eventually go  under and their the first ones with their hand in the till and cutting and running with loads of cash- THIS HAS TO STOP PERIOD.

THIS AINT FREE MARKETS BLAH BLAH BLAH - IT'S ROBBERY 1ST DEGREE.

. 

[**caution**opinion_ahead]

I think High Streets could recover a bit if stores actually sold what the generation who still shops there wants.  My local M&S has a huge section filled with skinny-fit, low-rise jeggings ... and yet it is very rare to see a customer under 50 in there.  It seems the management just cannot bear to acknowledge who their clientele base really is.

Limit the number of coffee places and charity shops to, say, 15% of the available space, and give small businesses massive rent and tax cuts to encourage them in.  Then stand back and watch things thrive. 

[theelench]

I agree with you especially about the massive rent and rate cuts.  The town centre where I live is a cross-roads meeting at a small space called a Square.  The primary selling area, with most of the larger shops in the High Street, the roads at right-angles with mostly older, smaller shops with flats for the proprietors above.

The smaller shops were finished off by not only steadily increasing rents but business rates on the shops plus domestic council tax on the accommodation.  

This is a sea-side town, it has struggled since holidays abroad became the norm.  The council drove most of the "character" businesses out, they struggled to make a living as the tourists disappeared but without them there was little left of interest to the few remaining visitors.  

I've lived here for thirty years and can look back on one costly council scheme after another which were supposed to stop the decline.  The council's answer is always the same, take over the running of an almost dead business and pump in money raised through taxes.

It's never enough and always too late.  We have a closed harbour, a closed motor museum, a closed town museum, surrounded by closed shops, many driven out of business by the taxes used in a vain attempt to prop up the former.

It was free enterprise that more the town a place to visit and left to its own devices it might have dragged itself back from the brink, it will never do that while it's run by the council playing at being a business.