Brexit

[guitarsandwoods]

Hello everyone,

I searched the forums about this and did not find anything, and I believe it is an interesting subject to dscuss, as the referendum approaches.

I know it can be a touchy subject, but I wonder what your thoughts about it? Will it change in any way the relationship with the European Union? Can this subject harm or benefit your business?

Disclaimer: I am not interested in anything political side of the issue, only the economic side.

Thank you.

[fallen-archie]

Steady on Books, We may be perilously close to consensus here!

[al**bear]

Do You really think this Man has Your well being in Mind

When he says Vote leave ?

ditto the rest of the Rightwing Press

[bookhunter2007]

Aye. Who'd have thunk it?

I think "Brexit" is also a misleading term.

Because, if it did happen, then it would inevitable re-trigger another debate on Scottish Independence - which this time would probably have a better chance of success. At which point, it would be inevitable that an Independent Scotland would be fast-tracked for EU membership.

Wouldn't surprise me if a considerable sum of SNPers voted "leave" for this very reason - despite being pro-EU.

[artful_dodgings]

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@bookhunter2007 wrote:

Wouldn't surprise me if a considerable sum of SNPers voted "leave" for this very reason - despite being pro-EU.

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Someone did suggest to me once, that it would be a good idea if someone could cut along Hadrian's Wall with a sharp pair of scissors, and shove the top half out into the Atlantic. Not least of all to get shut of Nicola 'Lady Macbeth/Typhoid Mary' Sturgeon.

[suzieseaside]

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@al**bear wrote:

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Oops - and that's recent!  But he's not the only one to be inconsistent

How committed really are the leaders of the remain campaign?

Cameron – headlines less than 2 years ago

Cameron: I’m ready to lead Britain out of Europe if migrant reforms fail (The Telegraph 27 November 2014)

Leaving EU would not break my heart, says David Cameron (The Guardian 30 September 2014) PM’s latest comments imply he would not fight as hard for Britain to stay in the EU as he did for Scotland to remain in the union

David Cameron willing to recommend vote to leave EU in referendum (The Guardian 28 September 2014) But PM says he is confident he will secure British opt-out from EU’s founding declaration to create ‘ever closer union’

So,OK he achieved the latter and it can be argued that he would have to have said these things to show the EU he meant business in his negotiations.

Corbyn, 2011 and 2016:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cVJZTxbCaKA

Do they really care either way? Will they be voting for what they have most recently stood for in the secrecy of the polling booth?!

I would say that the remain campaign has been somewhat lacklustre perhaps because of their own frustrations with the EU, unless I have missed the rousing speeches and confident assurances that remain really is the right way to go for the younger generation and ones to follow.

Whatever happens, and if remain wins at least it won’t be a landslide because that would indicate to Brussels that the UK citizens are happy with the status quo

[fallen-archie]

[suzieseaside]

  Very good!

I have wavered a couple of times, even in the last 24 hours. Being in the EU could be best for the future of Britain and other Member States, but I think not at it is now, so not without serious reform, which I suspect most EU members would not deny.  If I had confidence that the needed reforms could be made inside this cumbersome beast I would probably vote remain.

I think the bottom line is that I would like to have known what the chances for major reforms are and how they would be achieved, but strangely I have found nothing concrete on that, only information on how the EU bureaucratic machine works and how little influence our politicians have.

Only a couple of hours left to vote, so off to the Polling Station.  I think this is the first time voting for anything that I have not felt 100% confident about my final choice of where the X is going to go.  And this time I have tried to inform myself for weeks and weeks with endless reading! 

Worn out with it all and glad it will soon be over! 

  I need a drink

[brandyknackers]

Empires fall. Tomorrow may be the start of the fall of the european empire.

[bookhunter2007]

...Or quite a bit of foamage and conspiracy theories about pencils from the Kipperati.

[brandyknackers]

Well it's all over bar the shouting and the sheep are queing up to follow our lead.

[joe_bloggs*]

Seems a few daily mail readers who were led to vote leave are not too impressed when confronted with a few facts:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3659137/So-does-mean-Brexit-affect-holiday-money-mortgages-p...

one commeter says:  "Why didn't we get this kind of informative article before instead of just scaremongering?".one  reply said, "you did get it but you dismissed it as Project Fear; welcome to Project Reality".

[fallen-archie]

Just watched IDS on the Marr show. Remember the poster pledging £350m a week to the NHS? Well it didn't mean that, in fact we won't have that amount to give! Eh, no we must look after the farmers, the regionally deprived areas etc etc, Fine but why put up a poster for all to see which is untrue?

Then he moved on to immigration, Good news on this front, there will be no repatriation, strong borders and a restriction on those wishing to come in based on qualifications and need. So the net population figure will continue to rise, pressure on services will be relentless, our once green and pleasant land will continue to be developed, so the only change will be our departure from the EU.

Finally Nigel Farage said this was a victory for working people, a victory over the merchant banks and big business. IDS confirmed that the process needed to move quickly and that they would assemble a team from Big Business, the Financial community and legal sector to unpick and plan the way forward, not an ordinary person in sight, Little wonder this campaign was so divisive with politicians on both sides feathering their own nests, spewing out lie after lie and once more deceiving the public on a massive scale. Perhaps its time for politicians to fulfill entry requirements, to have a limit on how long they can serve and to swear an oath to the people over trust and honesty.

[baybizz]

~

[al**bear]

Pantomime season is starting early this year

Wednesday

------  This is what will happen

Sunday IDS on Marr show

----------   OH NO it wont

[joe_bloggs*]

Interesting comment in the Guardian,has Cameron outmanouvered Johnson and left him with a poisened chalice?

https://profile.theguardian.com/user/id/2441827/picks

"The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

"Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

"Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

"If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act."

[mikes*corvettes]

Interesting reading.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/683739/EU-referendum-German-French-European-superstate-Brexit

We got out just in time.

[fallen-archie]

The Express is brimming with negativity right now and if you watch the TV news it is thoroughly depressing. I accept the Braveheart call so frequently used by those in favour of Brexit and we must back the result, but there are some regulars on here who have been very tight lipped over what is taking place. I am disgusted at the abuse received by many polish immigrants and equally sick of the opportunist political players trying to capitalise on the uncertainty. Me Me Me is alive and well, we may be leaving an expensive undemocratic club but the fact remains that Britain is a country infested by parasitical spivs and run by an elite establishment, we have a long way to go before the balance is redressed.

[mikes*corvettes]

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@fallen-archie wrote:

that Britain is a country infested by parasitical spivs and run by an elite establishment, we have a long way to go before the balance is redressed.

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 Agree with that, the problem is now halved as we only have to deal with the ones here and not the ones in Brussels as well.

[theelench]

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@mikes*corvettes wrote:

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@fallen-archie wrote:

that Britain is a country infested by parasitical spivs and run by an elite establishment, we have a long way to go before the balance is redressed.

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 Agree with that, the problem is now halved as we only have to deal with the ones here and not the ones in Brussels as well.

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Agree with both of you.  When Cameron said "We're stronger in Europe" he meant the establishment.  They all lied and conspired for years to deny the electorate a vote on the subject and it back-fired on them by increasing voters resentment at being denied.

For the first time in recent history the people have ignored both the main parties, big business, the banks and the 'experts' and voted against them.  All the main players have further diminished their credibility with voters during the campaign.

Whether the 'main' reason for voting Out was immigration, sovereignty, democracy or whatever, the majority do not like the way the country is run and that was crystallised in the vote to give the establishment a kick up the rear.

We've been going through austerity for years (remember Cameron "we're all in this together") and yet while services to the truly vulnerable are cut and wages to the majority have fallen or stagnated the elite have not suffered at all.  The banks carried on paying bonuses, the top 10% are still getting richer.  There is a growing sense that "this ain't right".

I think there is a growing swell of feeling that things have got to change.  The real parasites don't seem to suffer despite efforts to make them work.  The local council always has enough money to employ another Director of this or that (after the last one left by mutual agreement with a golden goodbye).  Has a single one of our "representatives" MEPs, MPs, Councillors ever taken a pay cut to help out the public finances or repay the national debt?  And yet most people are being squeezed to do exactly this.

This is only the first step to redress the balance and I think the establishment is going to get another surprise when the next general election is called. 

[al**bear]

S&P Strips U.K. of Triple-A Credit Rating

Standard & Poor’s Global Ratings stripped the U.K. of its pristine triple-A credit rating on Monday, following through on its warning that last week’s vote to leave the European Union threatens the country’s constitutional and economic integrity.

The firm, which cut the country’s ratings by two notches to double-A, also said the vote for “remain” in Scotland and Northern Ireland creates wider constitutional issues for the country as a whole.

Fitch Ratings followed suit, cutting the country’s ratings by one notch, also to double-A. The firm pointed to the uncertainty following the referendum outcome, which Fitch predicted would lead to “an abrupt slowdown” in growth as businesses defer investment.

The outlook on the ratings at both credit firms is negative, which signals a potential for additional downgrades.

The U.K.’s surprise vote to leave the EU has rattled stock, currency and debt markets around the world, and led to a political upheaval in the U.K.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/s-p-strips-u-k-of-triple-a-credit-rating-1467050234