Brexit

[guitarsandwoods]

Hello everyone,

I searched the forums about this and did not find anything, and I believe it is an interesting subject to dscuss, as the referendum approaches.

I know it can be a touchy subject, but I wonder what your thoughts about it? Will it change in any way the relationship with the European Union? Can this subject harm or benefit your business?

Disclaimer: I am not interested in anything political side of the issue, only the economic side.

Thank you.

[upthecreekyetagain]

That Spectator article is excellent - it addresses the point of sovereignty in a calm and well thought out way using only facts to back up the writers position rather than speculation or plain inaccuracies - 10/10 - if only there were more like this coming from both sides.

It crystallises the choice on this subject - the UK as an independent state or ultimately a member state of a Federal States of Europe - therein lies the real choice.  

It is a shame that not one single politician from either side is willing to address the benefits that would come from being part of such a federation - leavers reference the point as though an FSE would be the end of the world as we know it and stayers just deny it could ever happen.

[artful_dodgings]

'I am doing more than criticising Boris - I am calling him an outright liar'

Bit rich of you calling BJ a liar. Don't ALL politicians lie when it suits their purpose and agenda ? In fact the lies are queuing up behind their teeth, waiting to get out. I've heard a few corkers from Mister Sillyface and his next door neighbour, especially in receipt of this referendum.

Excellent link overleaf from the 'Spectator', and posted by MC. I've actually heard Nigel Farage recapitulate on a couple of the points raised.

*dons hard hat*

[john.b74]

http://www.breitbart.com/london/2016/06/15/germans-largest-bank-says-massive-uk-grown-brexit-bbc-rem...

[astrologica]

Meanwhile...Mr Ed Murphy, a Labour Councillor in Peterborough (who is a Remainian) , said.....' The polls are showing that people who are very poorly educated are likely to vote leave. The narrative is quite clear and the analysis has been done, that those demographics are the people who are voting to leave'. How arrogant is that!! 

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@artful_dodgings wrote:

'I am doing more than criticising Boris - I am calling him an outright liar'

Bit rich of you calling BJ a liar. Don't ALL politicians lie when it suits their purpose and agenda ? In fact the lies are queuing up behind their teeth, waiting to get out. I've heard a few corkers from Mister Sillyface and his next door neighbour, especially in receipt of this referendum.

Excellent link overleaf from the 'Spectator', and posted by MC. I've actually heard Nigel Farage recapitulate on a couple of the points raised.

*dons hard hat*

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Are you really saying that because you think all politicians lie that it's not right to call Boris a liar when he patently is?

He's riding around in a bus with not just a misleading slogan writ large on its side but one which is also an outright lie - and you're suggesting we shouldn't call him a liar!

[upthecreekyetagain]

The other side of the coin to a fall in the value of sterling is expressed by HSBC in this article

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/24/brexit-could-wipe-20-percent-off-the-pound-warns-hs...

[artful_dodgings]

What about the rest of the Brexit rhetoric ? Presumably, since you are constantly carping on about the 'misleading slogan' on the bus - which is getting a bit tedious to be honest - you can't find anything wrong with the rest of it, so you call him a liar on this one thing ? And actually, all this has been explained in detail countless times, but I suppose you choose not to believe this (you're prerogative to believe/not believe) because this has stuck in your craw since the day the bus set forth. Getting back to the old adage of 'suiting your own agenda' now.

Maybe the Brexit's should repaint the bus with go-faster-stripes or something, just to please you.

[fallen-archie]

Perhaps the Brexits should have used this Picture

Can't argue with that?

Wonder how Brexit will help

[artful_dodgings]

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

The other side of the coin to a fall in the value of sterling is expressed by HSBC in this article

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/24/brexit-could-wipe-20-percent-off-the-pound-warns-hs...

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Think I've just cracked a rib at this one. Bankers and their analysts.

To misquote Mandy Rice-Davies: 'They would say that, wouldn't they' ?

If a Banker told me today was Thursday, I'd have to check the date on the newspaper to make sure.

[artful_dodgings]

Looks like a busload of illegal immigrants, bound for the UK.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@artful_dodgings wrote:

What about the rest of the Brexit rhetoric ? Presumably, since you are constantly carping on about the 'misleading slogan' on the bus - which is getting a bit tedious to be honest - you can't find anything wrong with the rest of it, so you call him a liar on this one thing ? And actually, all this has been explained in detail countless times, but I suppose you choose not to believe this (you're prerogative to believe/not believe) because this has stuck in your craw since the day the bus set forth. Getting back to the old adage of 'suiting your own agenda' now.

Maybe the Brexit's should repaint the bus with go-faster-stripes or something, just to please you.

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A lot of the Brexit 'rhetoric' I do agree with as I"ve previously stated.  Too many seem to consider the debate over Europe in black and white - everything said by one side is always true, everything said by the other , false.  I've not heard anyone supporting Brexit concede a single point made by the 'remainders' - have you?

You may consider it fine for our potential next PM to travel across the country broadcasting a lie - I think it is a step too far.  It's not even as though it's the first time he's lied!

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2016/feb/26/boris-johnson-latest-euro-myth-brexit

You may also consider my objection tedious, your prerogative.   There may well have been 'explanations', as you call them, regarding the statement that we send £350 million a week to the EU but however hard you try and explain it away the simple fact is WE DO NOT.  How do you explain it or are you willing to say it is a lie.

[upthecreekyetagain]

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@artful_dodgings wrote:

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@upthecreekyetagain wrote:

The other side of the coin to a fall in the value of sterling is expressed by HSBC in this article

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2016/feb/24/brexit-could-wipe-20-percent-off-the-pound-warns-hs...

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Think I've just cracked a rib at this one. Bankers and their analysts.

To misquote Mandy Rice-Davies: 'They would say that, wouldn't they' ?

If a Banker told me today was Thursday, I'd have to check the date on the newspaper to make sure.

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Personally I agree but there again I wouldn't have given 'kudos' to a post with just a link to an article about bankers even if it did support my position on the referendum - 😉

ooops!

[lettie0261]

Your posts have certainly helped cement it for me to vote OUT 🙂 Thank you.

[upthecreekyetagain]

That's good - at least it sounds like you hadn't come into the debate with your mind fixed, unlike many others.

[brandyknackers]

If we vote out on Thursday, I suspect there will be another referendum quite soon. The next one will be to join the new "United states of Europe" where we will be voting for the full monte, total Europeen control and the Euro. Our exit will certainly start a major shake up of the E.U.

[sellsoldstough]

I'm wondering what the public reaction will be if the result is by a narrow margin. Especially if remain wins like that. Somehow I can't see the Brexiters just slinking back into the woodwork.

[artful_dodgings]

.*loving the heckling from the cheap seats up in the Gods back there*

'I've not heard anyone supporting Brexit concede a single point made by the 'remainders' - have you?'

Have I heard anyone else from the Brexit camp, agree with anything from the remain tribe - or do I personally go along with any of their points ?

No to the first part of your question, and to the second, do you think I've taken leave of my senses ? No of course I can't acquiesce with them. There's too much of the Edward Lear/Lewis Carroll about their script for my liking.

'You may consider it fine for our potential next PM to travel across the country broadcasting a lie - I think it is a step too far.  It's not even as though it's the first time he's lied!'

 BJ potentially our next PM ? Really ? Have you got insider knowledge, or are you maybe one of the Chipping Norton set ? Maybe it's that you're in touch with Doris Stokes ? Be afraid, the cons (lower case 'c') could very well be led by Mister Sillyface, or another female, in the shape of the May woman.

Anyhow, should your forecast materialise and BJ is ensconsed in No 10, no change there then. It's one Porker (apt in Comedy's case) for another one, according to you.

[artful_dodgings]

Whichever party wins - even by a whisker - that's it ! There's no turning back. It's forever, and ever, amen.

'slinking back into the woodwork'. Quaint turn of phrase you've got there.

[evoman3957]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j0pwXLtvt2w&feature=youtu.be

[sellsoldstough]

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@artful_dodgings wrote:

Whichever party wins - even by a whisker - that's it ! There's no turning back. It's forever, and ever, amen.

'slinking back into the woodwork'. Quaint turn of phrase you've got there.

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I don't buy that. If we stay in, what's to stop us leaving at some future date, say in 5 years time? Can you imagine Mr Farage just giving up?

If we leave, the whole EU concept is likely to be weakened by our leaving.

And, whichever way it goes, the future existence of the EU is fragile, so again there is no forever and ever.

You're right, my use of, "slinking back into the woodwork" was ill-chosen. I am guilty of allowing the discussion to colour my attitude towards those of the opposing view. If that can happen to me, it may be that it can happen to others.