Bi-polar

[mitzigirl_123]

Can I ask a very controversial question without offending anyone?

With all the mental health issues now prevalent in modern society that affects a lot of people from all walks of life, I wonder if that disorder would be so prevalent if they lived in war torn country or environment where they had to live on their wits, hunt to survive or fight or flight?

Do you think the diagnosis of "bi-polar" would be so common?

Don't shoot me down, I am just curious?

[mitzigirl_123]

Bastcat-  what an excellent post making simple a very complex subject!

My own father suffered all of his life from post traumatic disorder and battle fatigue although it was not termed as that back in the day and like others mentioned on here, he just carried on regardless.

In trying to understand the new term "bi-polar" it would seem the symptoms are no different although a catastrophic event may not necessarily be the trigger?

[al**bear]

#19

surely  = surly

[mitzigirl_123]

Sorry posted too early ... I have been trying to find out information on whether any data held will show an increase in suicides since the term "bi-polar" was introduced and whilst I haven't found anything yet, I did find this:

http://facts.randomhistory.com/2009/07/15_suicide.html

No. 16: 

"While there is a common perception that suicide rates are highest among the young, the elderly, in fact, have the highest suicide rates."

I am not sure how the contents of this article are quantified but it makes interesting reading nevertheless.

[mitzigirl_123]

Do you think it would make a difference to people's perception of themselves and that of mental illnesses if they were told that what and how they think and feel is perfectly normal and unique to them rather than being diagnosed as having a "problem" and labelling them as "bi-polar" - do you think it would reduce their symptoms and behaviours?  ?:|

[Anonymous]

It's an interesting question Mitz, although research would be a problem as it would be quite dangerous of course to see if more trauma (sending them to a war zone) could cure or help a person like that.

But I understand that you wonder if they would "rise to the occasion" so to speak.

We'll never find out. Well not that way anyway.

A friend of mine was married to a man who was a manic depressive and to be honest he was a walking nightmare. When on a high he was pretty delusional and a risk to himself and others, but at least more bearable than when he was on a low. When on a low he was like a zombie. Impossible to get more than three words out of him. It could go on for months. When he was on a high he thought he was invincible and could do anything. He came up with the most outrageous ideas. This went on for many years before the doctors finally diagnosed him. This was about 30 years ago. He was put on medication and got a lot better. By then though it had destroyed his marriage. 😞

Nowadays they do seem to be very quick to label someone. Call me cynical, but I do question sometimes though if it has become the "fashion" (every other celebrity seems to suffer from it), or have the doctors indeed become very skilled at recognising the symptoms very quick. ?:|

I know quite a few young adults that have been labelled bi-polar. They are given meds, which they take or not and that's it.....no other help or therapy. So, as was said before, they go back to their own "war-zone". I personally wonder that if they would get psycho therapy/counselling for some length of time (not the standard few sessions X-() some would actually be found not to have bi-polar at all. I suppose it's easier to give out the pills...............................................

I have the impression that the pharmaceutical industry prefers as many labels as possible. There is no money in well-being. 😐

[lhasa.two]

Do you think it would make a difference to people's perception of themselves and that of mental illnesses if they were told that what and how they think and feel is perfectly normal and unique to them rather than being diagnosed as having a "problem" and labelling them as "bi-polar" - do you think it would reduce their symptoms and behaviours? 

No, I don't think so mitzi because it's a condition you wouldn't want to have if there was a choice... although it gives insights that so called 'normal' people don't have. Peoples negative reaction to it is born out of ignorance mostly as per the Stephen Fry negative comments.

Also, there is no cure for bi polar or as it used to be known, manic depression. There are two types of it, type 1 and type 2. Type 1 being the most serious with extremes of the highs(mania) and lows (depression). The condition is nearly as old as history, Aristotle describes it. There is no cure, just management, so thank goodness for lithium carbonate as that has been a life saver for many. The condition is a chemical imbalance within the brain and lithium carbonate for many people helps them to manage the highs and lows most of the time. Age helps too as it has a tendency to settle down a bit as the ageing process progresses. It takes no prisoners and anyone from any part of society, rich or poor can have it. Therapy can help to manage it but preferably from a psychiatrist who understands the medical aspects of the disorder. Certain diet changes can help too, so can exercise. 

Before lithium carbonate was used to treat MD (around the late 60's) I don't think there was anything available to treat it. It can be very hard work for the families of sufferers because the condition when it's not treated properly, is relentless. The key is regular pill taking and various check ups by a good GP. I have to say my father, who was manic depressive, when on a high did some hilarious things, he was very creative with the uses of his mania but it was knife edge stuff sometimes.  Our extended family and friends all knew he had MD but it was never an issue for them.   

I don't think it's any more common today, it's just that our attitude to mental illness has changed and is much more out in the open so we hear more about cases. I think Stephen Fry was very brave to talk openly about his recent suicide attempt but as he's a figurehead in MIND, it helps others to be open about their condition. His rapid speaking sometimes is an indicator of bi-polar 'mania' and is called "rapid cycling" where the brain operates very quickly and people think and speak very very quickly, more than the norm. The problems associated with that are they then wear themselves out, then they can't sleep then it all starts going towards the depression side... and made worse by drinking alcohol. Saying that I have no idea if SF drinks or not but it is a factor for many. 

If someone has bi polar it doesn't matter where they are, leafy Surrey or a war zone, nothing will cure it as it's not something to "snap out of" or are cured by in any event whether life threatening or not.  In a first world country or anywhere that provides treatment, it can be a managed condition, anywhere else means they're in the lap of the gods, sadly. 

[ilove2patch]

A very good explanation MSP.:-) It is a horrible incurable condition.

[kiss*my*pixel]

What a good, thought-invoking thread, Mitzi. It takes a strong and understanding person, I think, to recognise and be understanding and sympathetic towards someone you love with this condition. Not everyone has this level of tolerance.

Mental health issues cover a huge spectrum - depression can range from very mild to suicidal. In a war zone - a mild person may survive (at a cost), a suicidal person would probably not survive at all . . . . . In either case, it would probably remain undiagnosed.

Some very strong posts - I'm still reading and digesting. As much as one might love a family member or friend with this condition, it is still sometimes incredibly hard to remember that they can neither help nor have any control over their behaviour - threads like this bring you back again to hopefully be more understanding and tolerant.

It seems that many workplaces are now recognising this as a real issue and are putting in place safeguards and people to talk to if you are having a problem. Mental health issues are also being covered more in in the media, with several well-known celebrity-type people coming forward - it can all only help to make it less of a taboo subject.

[10phizz]

I wonder if the high number of celebrities admitting to the illness could in fact be true ? After all the sufferers are attracted to high risk  and creative  situations. Many of us with responsibilities of family and mortgage wouldn`t even consider a job where the rewards can be so erratic.I read somewhere a long time ago that up to 97% of actors can be  "resting" ............if I have that wrong I stand to be corrected

[ilove2patch]

I think that you make a good point Phizz.

[mitzigirl_123]

Thank you so much everyone for your insightful and informed replies you have made simple a very complex subject. 

I also understand that many people are chemically pre-disposed to "depression" whether or not there has been a triggering event although in milder cases I still believe that if you take them out of their known environment and put them in another less familiar (not a war zone of course) it would change their perception and behaviours enabling them to see things from a different angle as would small lifestyle changes as Ihasa mentioned, diet and exercise. 

All prescribed medication does is stimulate the brain's chemicals and without other interventions short term quick fix will be ineffective.

Back in the early seventies my friend's father had depression and he was given the abusive electric shock treatment!  True!

I was married to a man for 10 years who suffered from manic depression and I was aware of a triggering event that took place in his childhood.  Whilst he was a full time worker, when not, I would often find him sitting in a dark room and he wouldn't speak.

I found myself doing everything and anything to stimulate him to the point that he no longer had to think for himself.  I realise that was a mistake because he had found empathy with me and whether consciously or unconsciously he took advantage and in hindsight I realise that all I was doing was fueling his condition.

I walked away after 10 years because it was damaging my own mental health - a very hard thing for me to do but it turns out that I did the right thing because he then was forced to just get on with it and did - He could control his behaviour but because I had given him a comfort cushion, he didn't have to.  He subsequently remarried and still suffers (which is such a relief to know it wasn't just me :-D) but now in his 70's he values life and he sees his time as short which has become his definer and motivator.

I do agree with Harry's post and I too question whether to be diagnosed as "bi-polar" has become a "fashion" - I was talking to two young youths the other day (aged 17 and 18) and both had been diagnosed with bi-polar and ADHT!  I asked them their symptoms and one told me that they "get bored very quickly and that depresses them" also, they "find it hard to concentrate for long periods of time" and "get angry if people tell them what to do"!

I enquired if they were on any medication and both had been prescribed anti depression tablets and had been referred to an NHS counsellor "who was absolutely useless" apparently.

One had been involved with self harming and I asked why ... ready for this... "Because most of my friends do it and I wanted to know what it felt like".

I know self harming is a way of acting out and I am aware of some serious cases but again, with people so young, I wonder if this too has become a “fashionable” condition? ?:|

[rose2008-2008]

Do people with Bi Polar all have manic episodes or can you suffer from it without. I have heard there are about three different kinds of this illness?. It would be hard sometimes to know if someone was suffering from it yes?. ?:|

[ilove2patch]

Bi Polar means 'both ends of the spectrum' so to me it means both hyper & depressed states. I can't see how you could be described as Bi Polar without the highs & lows. You can have it with different levels of severity though.

[jean2579]

Mitzi, my Husband has had bi polar for the entire time we have been married. 47 years. It is not something imagined, it is very real for him and for our family. He has tried every drug possible, has had the horrible ECT and in Australia there was an infamous deep sleep therapy where patients where held in an induced coma for months at a time. Nothing has helped. He was a brilliant mathematician, he lost that, we lost two homes because the banks found out about his illness, this was in the 60 and 70s. As a Family we have been shunned, humiliated and isolated. We spent the entire time our son was growing up watching him like hawks for any small sign that he may have the illness. Normal growth patterns became possible symptoms, through it all we have emerged still together and with a son who is incredibly strong, is incredibly proud of his Dad and in his own turn is an excellent father. My Husband is still on very strong medication and we also know that the constant threat of suicide is always present. Would I have walked out if I knew then what I do now, I honestly don't know.

[10phizz]

Jean, you have my utmost sympathy. We too ate looking for the symptoms now  in the third or fourth generation. Doubtless your husband would not have survived without your loving care. I hope you derive great pleasure from your grandchildren...........one lady said to me many years ago " You wouldn`t think you could love anything as much, would you ? "

[mitzigirl_123]

Jean you have my admiration for standing by your husband and holding your family together.  There were no children between my husband and I so I only had myself to consider and didn't want to become a victim to his illness.  I hope that should the situation ever be reversed, somebody will offer you the same care and devotion that you have shown to others.

[lhasa.two]

My heart goes out to you all Jean as it's a hard road to travel. :-x

Fortunately times are changing in terms of acceptability and greater understanding of bi-polar 1 and 2.