07-02-2015 12:49 PM
First have a look here:-
http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/lawyer-sparks-outcry-claiming-men-5119595
Then have a look for a similar report on sky news:-
Scroll down a little way on that link. I can't add the link to the article here because a word in the link will be bleeped out and the link won't work. Have a read of it carefully?
So, that man thinks that if a woman is drunk, it's quite OK to pinch her handbag or steal her mobile phone? It's not as serious as the main crime mentioned there but they're still crimes?
He means that if someone stole a drunken womens handbag, she was asking for it and the thief shouldn't be prosecuted?
What do you think about his comments?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
09-02-2015 11:35 AM
@cee-dee wrote:The question's not a problem but the prosecution might try to make out that it was and depending on the Judge, it might be viewed that way but no matter, like I said, there are ways to imply something without actually saying it.
When/if the defence comes to cross examine the complainant, they could ask what their alcohol tolerance level was or how often they went for nights out where alcohol was consumed.
Anyway, I think we've moved away from the blog where he's indicated that he has a very low opinion of women and that as far as he's concerned, any woman who's had too much to drink is fair game to be taken advantage of and afterwards, shouldn't make a claim that they didn't consent.
No they couldn't!
09-02-2015 11:47 AM - edited 09-02-2015 11:48 AM
09-02-2015 11:53 AM
They could and even if the Judge or the prosecution objects, the idea/doubt has been implanted in the mind of the jury.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
09-02-2015 11:57 AM
@cee-dee wrote:They could and even if the Judge or the prosecution objects, the idea/doubt has been implanted in the mind of the jury.
Of course "they could" - there are lots of things a defence lawyer 'could' say but you appear to be basing the idea that they 'would' do so on dramatised court cases. There are very serious repercussions for any barrister that used those sort of tactics.
09-02-2015 12:06 PM
No, those tactics have been used regularly and some of the tactics used by that bloke who was defence for celebrities (I forget his name) used what I think were highly questionable tactics but he managed to get away with it and usually "get them off".
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
09-02-2015 8:45 PM - edited 09-02-2015 8:46 PM
10-02-2015 11:12 AM - edited 10-02-2015 11:14 AM
The barrister is talking about how you could defend a case because they are trying to change the law where there is no case and your guilty in all circustances if a woman says **bleep**.Which isn't right as thats guilty until proved guilty.
Do that to all law cases and hey ho...so I get what he's saying ie what people say in these circumstances and thus is the defence.The jury is there to decide and thats fair in my opinion. I agree wholeheartedly with **bleep** is **bleep** but saying and being it are different things .
No it's not an alarming viewpoint,some of the things he said are alarming as defences but as he says those are exactly what he's heard.
He should have however ended by making quite clear these were not his personal views ,but he didn't so therefore they probably are and it's alarming if those are his views he lasted this long and got to barrister level in law.
10-02-2015 11:37 AM
Its a good way for him to drum up businesnes as the man who can do his best to get you of R.ape..Like most USA lawyers..
@joamur_gosof wrote:The barrister is talking about how you could defend a case because they are trying to change the law where there is no case and your guilty in all circustances if a woman says **bleep**.Which isn't right as thats guilty until proved guilty.
Do that to all law cases and hey ho...so I get what he's saying ie what people say in these circumstances and thus is the defence.The jury is there to decide and thats fair in my opinion. I agree wholeheartedly with **bleep** is **bleep** but saying and being it are different things .
No it's not an alarming viewpoint,some of the things he said are alarming as defences but as he says those are exactly what he's heard.
He should have however ended by making quite clear these were not his personal views ,but he didn't so therefore they probably are and it's alarming if those are his views he lasted this long and got to barrister level in law.
10-02-2015 11:48 AM
I doubt it tommy ,hes 73 so no doubt just explaing his slant on new proposals..with a bit of I don't like loose drunk women thrown in
10-02-2015 11:50 AM
he's probably got a bee in his bonnet as no matter how drunk they get they still tell him to do one lol
10-02-2015 1:53 PM
I doubt that.. if he has money ..He will always be a sugar daddy to someone..
@joamur_gosof wrote:he's probably got a bee in his bonnet as no matter how drunk they get they still tell him to do one lol
10-02-2015 8:08 PM
I don't see anything right with the blog.It confuses law with fantasy, and fact with fiction.
Previous history has been allowed on application, and the last study i am aware of in 90's was prior to 2003 99 and saw about 40% of cases examined making an application, of which some 75% or so were granted.
Part of the adversarial process is trying to degrade the prosecutions evidence including witnesses.That may be done various ways, some fairly crude, some more subtle, but that's the aim.I don't quite think the batty blogger in full rant mode would be acceptable, though a few have made the odd not entirely dissimilar remark.
One female in a SA case had some footage shown of her dancing in what was described as a 'provocative way' unrelated to the case far as I'm aware.Defendant acquitted.
What the prosecution didn't have was footage of her trying to escape her assailant, which included her jumping out of a 1st floor window to try to escape, and breaking her ankle in the process.
Rule of thumb is some -mainly, but not exclusively men, will not convict regardless, whereas in general the feeling is women tend to be harsher on 'morality ' issues which tends to increase with age. Juries seem to address stranger assaults fine, but begin to have problems when previous knowledge, drink etc appear.
Looking at various social media sites, I wouldn't disagree with the above
The batty blogger's answer is twofold
1) Don't go out
2) If you get drunk, you essentially have yourself to blame and lose your rights
Both the above only apply to females, who are just to remind, the victims in general
In keeping with tradition, no advice is offered or needed presumably for the offenders, who just cant help themselves and it should be understood as a natural right.
11-02-2015 4:19 PM - edited 11-02-2015 4:23 PM
Women do get more affected by alcoholic drink, than men do.
It results from women having smaller bodies, and brains, than men.
Are these physiological facts taken into account, when cases come before the court?
12-02-2015 7:45 AM - edited 12-02-2015 7:46 AM
I will go with differently affected by alcohol rather than more...women tend to chill ,men seem to do the opposite (not all in either case)...which in respect of smaller brains seems to mean having a big one is chit for you under the influence.
Taking that into court as psychological would have the right affect on the jury as they would know its possible some men cannot control themselves and turn into big headed control freaks that expect everything their way and women don't give a rats until morning and then want something done about 'mr less effected'
Saying that,its the jury who decide not the lawyers only thing wrong with a jury is it should be made up of 100 people not twelve.
12-02-2015 4:29 PM
I did notice the gentleman in question was of the opinion that women should not be allowed to sit on juries and in fact would prefer that only men over 21 and owning property should serve.
Possibly in some aspects his brain was at least fifty years behind the times.
12-02-2015 6:42 PM
Here's an interesting case where it illustrates that even Judges get things wrong by ignoring video evidence that the woman concerned was "being sufficiently inert and unresponsive as to leave it open to a properly directed jury to be sure that she was not consenting and that she did not have the freedom and capacity to do so":-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-31446717
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
12-02-2015 7:27 PM
@cee-dee wrote:Here's an interesting case where it illustrates that even Judges get things wrong by ignoring video evidence that the woman concerned was "being sufficiently inert and unresponsive as to leave it open to a properly directed jury to be sure that she was not consenting and that she did not have the freedom and capacity to do so":-
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-31446717
Fortunately in that case there was video evidence.
12-02-2015 8:00 PM
Yes, but the judge was going to ignore it.
It seems like he was viewing it from the same point of view as David Osborne?
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.
12-02-2015 8:20 PM
How was it in line with David Osborne's views?
He has never suggested that a woman who is comatose can give consent.
I really don't understand the criticism of David Osborne - is it right that a man, (who may or may not be drunk himself), who meets a drunk woman in a club, who goes back to her place and is asked by her to have sex guilty of r ape?
Do you REALLY think that in such a case the man should end up in prison - I can't see how that is justice!
12-02-2015 8:52 PM
Osborne said “If the complainant (I do not refer to her as the victim) was under the influence of alcohol or drugs, or both, when she was "attacked" (I changed the word from the "R" word as it would only get changed by the board censorship), this provides the accused with a complete defence."
Really, men who take advantage of women who are incapable are ignorant, bullying cowards.
It's life Jim, but not as WE know it.
Live long and prosper.