Scammer back for round 3. Please get rid of this scammer so I can get what I am owed

[byron_gayle]

As I predicted in my last post (Scammer back for round 2. Please sort this out once and for all eBay!..) my scammer has now raised yet another bogus refund request.

My funds had been cleared for payment, but have now been put on hold again of course

Could someone please get this deleted as the previous two bogus claims have been?

All it takes is someone with an eBay email account to send a one line message telling the dude to stop and this is instantly all over.  Presumably eBay doesnt have a process for that because of the MBG and as a result  everyone's hands are tied

I have to laugh now otherwise I would just start to cry 😂

Anyway, I trust that the claim will be shortly removed...... and no doubt bogus claim number 4 will soon be uincoming.

I have come across my fair share of large companies over the years , but cannot recall many that appear to work in such a counterinuitive and rigid way as eBay.

Computers and policies seem to ovveride common sense far too often.

Heaven help us all if this is a sign of our AI inspired future. 

Thanks in advance

[technthread]

I read your post on the member to member forum the other day and scanned over it but there was a lot to digest. 

I am assuming this is in relation to the Garmin watch. If I can give you one useful thing to consider with future listings it would be that if you sell a watch in that kind of condition again don't bury the actual item photos behind 8 stock photos. Firstly I am fairly sure it's against eBay policy to do that, as it isn't a new item. A scammer will see that type of listing as one to go for because it is partially misrepresented. A normal eBay user who isn't scamming can also be really deceived by it if they don't read the description or scroll through all of the photos so it is asking for trouble. 

I would move on from this and not let it overly stress you out as it is only a £20 sale and isn't happening on the Rolex you have. Which by the way if you are dealing with scammers, the Rolex is the item that will attract them to your listings. 

[byron_gayle]

Thanks for your message.

I do take your point about burying images of the actual watch behind stock images but I seriously doubt it has any bearing in this situation. I am quite certain that the scammer saw all the photos and read my detailed description outlining the condition of the watch before he decided to buy it.

I was not trying to be dishonest, but as regards optics a thumbnail with a stock image of the watch is obvopiulsy going to attract more interest than one of actual item given its tatty condition

I will leave my Datejust listing as is, butI have already decided I will not be listing any of my other 16 watches on the platform.

If the images of the actual watch were not present, or my detailed description absent, I would understand where you are coming from regarding misrepresentation. However, given both were present and clearly visible with the display eBay display infrastructure for a listing, I am really not sure what you are on about with the greatest of respect.

Just because an actual image of the tatty watch is not the first thing the potential buyer sees, that does not negate everything all the other content related to the listing.

I also dont see how a seller can have any liability for a buyer not doing their due dilligence looking all the information in the listing before deciding to  buy. This is not burried in some kind of small print.I know that MBG is hughly loaded in favour of the buyer but sure eBay could not believe this is true?

If so then I believe this is very much an eBay thing. I cannot think of any normal company who would think this way. 

I appreciate your thoughts

[technthread]

No worries. I always base my listings on the idea that someone is on eBay with 2 minutes free time to search and will impulse buy so if there is a defect I want it shown front and centre. If that isn't possible in photo 1, I always write 'read description' or something like that in the title. Generally most buyers want a short and sweet listing, some appreciate a lot of detail in descriptions but they are the minority. Modern society short attention spans and all that...

I don't know how your buyer is opening so many cases but I'd just accept a return, refund, rip the strap off and sell a working watch with no strap. They are probably quite cheap to buy and you can recoup some of the loss on a 2nd sale. 

You are very brave to list a Rolex on eBay. Mainly as to address your point, the buyer has the power on eBay and no seller can completely protect themselves. The eBay process is very simple and automated so the seller really has to just make a call, either refund in full, offer a partial refund or accept a return and refund once it arrives back. It is usually best to let the buyer return it, if you try to beat them on eBay you run the risk they escalate outside eBay through their payment provider (PayPal, credit card etc) and that then costs you even more money. 

[byron_gayle]

Many thanks for your comments.

I have a friend who has conducted 1000s of transactions on the platform and I consulted him for guidance on what to do about the situation. 

He also said I should just process the return and I had resigned myself to do so.

However, when I went in to the order last Saturday, the refund request had already been removed following a response to my initial post on the matter. I was liasing with Tressygilrl about it, whom I believe instigated its removal

My mindset has since changed and if he now continues to raise bogus claims I will continue to ask you to remove them.

This game can go on back on forth until the cows come home.

His return window will eventually run out and I will belatedly get my money. 

I would love to put "read description" in the title somewhere but I often run out of characters.

Instead I have to focus on using words related to the item in question, that are most likely to come up a search from a potential buyer 

I appreciate that many buyers would prefer a short and sweet listing , but as far as I concerned its preferable for them to at least have a choice of reading a lot of detail or not.

It can only help the buyer make an informed decision imho

If a buyer only has 2 minutes to spare and buys an item having only looked at the thumbnail image and having not read the description then more fool him.

I would argue that would be a very reckless way of spending money and I doubt many would do it.

This would be an outlier and an exception

I believe it makes more sence to focus on a normal listing for normal buyers

[byron_gayle]

Yourself and two of your collegues have now said something to the affect that I am being brave to list my Rolex on eBay

What are my risks?

The Authentication Guarentee program has worked flawlessly on the occasions I have used it and this escrow type deal whereby funds are witheld until authentication is confirmed seems pretty bullet proof on the face of it for both the buyer and seller,very unlike the MBG which is heavily loaded in favour of one party

I would very much appreciate it if you could tell me if I am overlooking anything. 

Perhaps I will remove it anyway, but I would still like to understand what the risks are because I dont see them.

People sell watches worth far more than mine on the platform and dont have problems as far as I am aware.

[technthread]

Just listing something like that online is a risk for the same type of security reasons

that you mention in the item description. 

Posting to the authenticator involves risk. All couriers lose parcels and have lengthy T&C's when it comes to insurance cover.

I haven't used the authenticator. I am aware that they handle returns which adds a layer of seller protection but no system is 100% flawless and involves risk:

https://community.ebay.co.uk/t5/Seller-Central/Authenticity-Guarantee-Totally-unaccountable-and-appe...

[byron_gayle]

Thank you for your thoughts technthread. 

I have enjoyed our conversation. 

I have allocated £20 for postage of the Rolex.

The onus is on me to select a courier that I can trust and who can insure the item suffiiently when it leaves my possession. 

The only previous times I used the Authentication Gurarentee I  was requested to send the watch to the authenticators.. Although I cannot recall where they were located, I do remember it not being more than 20 miles from my home in Slough.

HIgh Wycombe? Wembley? I dont remember but I am sure it was the same location both times I sold before using the AG program and it was not too far from me.

I get that authenticators could struggle to correctly evaluate 1/vintage watches      2/watches from obsure brands   3/ rare watches 

In comparison this should be  a breeze compared to those types of items as I would have thought a modern Rolex Datejust would not be too challngiing for the team and would be very much in their wheelhouse

All I have to do in this entire selling process is ship the item to the Authenticators when  it has been sold

I might even consider driving there and hand delivering it this time to take the courier out of the equation. 

Either way once it has been handed over to the Authenticators, the liability of any loss is 100% on eBay

[papso22]

I am afraid your last sentence just confirms your naivity regarding eBay and  takes no account of the risk of a chargeback.

Also, no-one who has answered your posts works for eBay or has any influence over what they do.

[byron_gayle]

I hvae a red body warmer listed alongside my Datejust

Although the sales price is only £5 I still created a detailed listing, outlining my honest thoughts on the product,how it came in to my possesion and I why I am selling it.

I misread the siziing chart an the item is too small. Sadly the costs of returning it to the seller in China is prohibitive, so I am forced to create a UK listingi n the hope of recouperating some of my losses. 

To reinforce my point about the odd sizing of the item,I even took a photo of it next to a regular sized similar product more representative of typical UK sizing. 

This can only help the buyer make an informed decision and avoid making the mistake that I did

Most sellers would not even think of such a thing,never mind do it. 

I maintain that i am the type of seller I would want on the platform if I was eBay

My detailed descriptions for everything I list help the item as far as I can tell,but also gives the platform credibility in some small way

I read absolutely every word of a listing before I hit Buy and I suspect many other people do too.

The condition of similar items can vary greatly, and its just common sense as far as I am concerned

[byron_gayle]

Another example of rudeness on this platform, but thanks for your comments anyway

it has become crystal clear to me by now that you dudes have very limited influence over what the orgainisation decides to do, but thanks for confirming the fact.

This Rolex stuff is peripheral to my main point regarding the GPS return cases, , but I am extrenely happy that I have brought it into the conversation given what you have said.

If I am brutally honest, I dont understand what you mean about "risk of chregeback" and I more than comfortable looking like an idiot (... or look "naive" as you put it....) if you are on to something here. 

After all you the authorities on eBays platform and I am just some random guy trying to navigate his way through "the matrix" that is company's often counterintuitive rules and policies

To that end, could you please elaborate on how this  chargeback scenario could unfold.

Many thanks in advance

[papso22]

You call me rude then expect me to help you?  As I am not rude, I will.

Chargebacks are also called payment disputes,  they are cases instigated by the buyer's funding source and sellers have very little protection against them.  Put 'payment dispute' into the help search box for more information.

The authenticity guarantee programme does not provide much additional seller protection, judging by these boards.   There are lots of posts to do with that as well as the dangers of chargebacks.

[byron_gayle]

I called you rude becasue you are brother.

You dont know me and we have not communicated before.  Even if you think I am naive common courtesy would suggest you should keep your feelings to yourself, at least initially. 

Geez, if I did likewise and said what I thought about many of the contributors on this platform, I would instantly receive a lifetime ban (...perhaps generational affecting my young daugters and my eventual grandchilredn too !! 😊)

Its been a far from pleasant experience overall and I really wish I didnt have to be here. 

I appreciate you elaborating on the chargeback stuff. I can google the rest

No hard feelings,but to my mind you dont use derogatory terms towards another person straight out of the gate in my book

Lets move on 

[kempseykate]

---

@byron_gayle wrote:

Its been a far from pleasant experience overall and really wish I didnt have to be here. 

---

The people answering on these boards are just other members like yourself, who give freely of their time to help others - even though the people they are trying to help are frequently less than appreciative. However, you don't have to be here. You could try ebay Customer Support where you maybe will get to speak to an ebay rep:

eBay Customer Service

But to be honest, you are far more likely to get help on here than you are there.

[douglaspuglas]

Are you prepared to accept constructive criticism?

I looked at your body warmer listing.

At first I thought AI had written the discription.

It reads like a novel without much relevant information.

Buyers don't want to know how tall you are what you weigh.

They want measurements, condition and decent photos.

Stock photos are a bad idea.

So is putting other items in the one photo you took.

Buyers will think they are getting two gilets.

Also you should not leave false positives feedback for buyers.

All you are doing is adding to the buyer score and violating eBay's feedback policy.

[byron_gayle]

I am not pretending my listings are perfect

Its totally ok for us to disagree on what a buyers needs to know

The height and weight was only added for some context, as was the picture of the blue body warmer

I get that many people like short listings, but I belive it is preferable for them to have a choice

I dont understand why you would think stock photos are a bad idea if they are acompanied by photos of the actual item.

The product often looks better in the stock images than in real life and I dont see the problem in using them.

I am not ttying to be deceiptfui in any way l..... just trying to give the product the best possibe chance of being sold

If buyers believe they are getting two gillets then more fool them given the accompanying description.

I cannot legislate for total incompetence on the buyers part and they must take some responsibility for their decision to purchse somewhere along the line.

Its just as well I added those stock images after all, so my poor confused buyer is a little clearer on what is being sold

I read absolutely every word of the description of any item I have ever brought on the platform and assume many other people do likewise

Its always the buyers perogative to decide how much they read before hitting "buy",

I believe its better for a potential buyer to have a choice of how much they want to know about the product they are buying

My sometimes too personal references in my desriptions is intended to build rapport and trust.

If it fails so be it, but that is my intention. 

[douglaspuglas]

eBay states photos are part of the discription.

You are leaving yourself open to a not as discribed case.

In fact one of the reasons to choose when opening a SNAD is "doesn't match discription or photos".

[byron_gayle]

Thank you for the suggestion.

I am drained with all the messages on here as well as having to constantly restate my position and grounds for  complaint.  

I would welcome a different approach in the hope of saving everyone's time

There are good people sprinked amonst the contributors

All the best 

[plpmr]

You have shot yourself in the foot by leaving a vague false positive for the buyer, who can get the comment removed and that will damage your account.

[tressygirl]

Good Morning Byron ,

I have sold the odd clothing item before,  mainly my daughter's , and found although she was the same size, her clothing ranged from a,  Xsmall,   small to a medium ,  depending on the Brand or the store the item was purchased.

Bottom line classing an item for example as a Medium can give a buyer  cause for opening cases for a return. Different Brands have different sizings.

I would strongly advise as sizes vary so much from store to store, to lay a tape measure across salient points in the photos, e.g. length,  chest etc, and to actually write these measurements in the description box.  Leave little to chance for those unnecessary returns.

Using eBay's stock photos I would also only advise to use these,  only if selling that item in a Brand New Condition , never used,  with or without tags attached.