eBay UK are at a Crossroads

[bosley2016]

Anyone remember the end scene from that enchanting 2000 film, Castaway ? Chuck is standing at a Crossroads, and the decision he takes will dictate immediate future events. That's exactly where eBay UK is currently. In 5 years time, Business Schools will probably use the eBay Case Study of 2025 Q1 and Q2's far-reaching Board decisions, which ultimately sealed its fate. They'll discuss how either a) in acknowledging errors, bold decisions were taken to reverse an inevitable slide and terminal decline, or b) eBay UK withered away and slowly faded into oblivion.

I love eBay. I absolutely do, and I want it to succeed. I handle complaints for a living, and have for many years, for a major FTSE 100 listed company. I probably know more than most the ramifications when 'an expression of dissatisfaction' isn't effectively addressed. At best, the party will vocally air their views internally (See this Board for a plethora of examples where 20+ year long term Sellers are walking away) or externally. (CMA, FCA, Watchdog at the Beeb and MSM) At worst, many (the silent majority in fact with complaints) will quietly and simply take their business, both as Buyer and Seller, elsewhere. At the very worst, they tell others, friends and family...and this for a business is by far the most catastrophic.

I take my hat off to Kat and the team in Customer Services. They're doing their best in valiantly fighting fire after fire with buckets of water given to them from the powers up high. And judging by the outcome, those buckets contain kerosene. Far too often the 'benefits' statements justifying Managed Payments, BPF and SD are disingenuous. The reality though is Buyers suffer in paying a premium for something that already existed for most of the last 26 years. Furthermore, Sellers, particularly those who aren't tech savvy, the disabled and those who live rurally or don't drive...are all disadvantaged. 

But wait. It's not too late. There was a great quote on the Board about the old adage "if it's not broke, don't fix it." eBay's take recently seems to have been " if it's not broke, we'll fix it until it is broke." I get it - eBay aren't a Charity and want to maximise revenue streams. Nothing wrong with that, but in implementing the changes they have, they've lost the one thing with Buyers and Sellers that you simply can't put a price on...Goodwill.

So, if Eve Williams and Co. are listening, here's a few things I think may help, which are raised in the spirit of co-operation and ultimately support for a better eBay in the very near future.

1) Communication. Honest, transparent and consistent. Drip feeding and statements which Sellers regard as plainly false, don't help. The '20% cheaper postage' statement is a case in point.

2) BPF. Be brave and bin it. Go back instead to the old model of bi-weekly FVF Promotional Weekends. (80%, 70%, £1). Or worst case, instead levy an equivalent 75p + 4% SPF. Saying 'It's Free to Sell" sounds less appetising when complemented by "It's Not Free to Buy". Many Sellers, myself included, are happy to pay Fees. After all, eBay are providing a welcome Win Win Service connecting two parties.

3) SD. Retain the Custom Postage manual opt-out and let Sellers continue to decide how they package and Send an item AFTER a Sale, and not BEFORE. Many have their reasons for distrusting SD - whether it be personal circumstances or in my case, a desire to avoid certain carriers. Delivery reliability is paramount as I want my items to arrive intact at the other end. I've been close to tears hearing Positive Feedback and Messages from Buyers of items I've sold. Just one example - The £2 glass figurine replacing the sentimental value one broken in their childhood in the 1960s...finally found and purchased.

I absolutely trust Evri to deliver my elderly mum's Pads. There's an analogy there about s**t happens...but I won't go there. From experience though, whether unintentionally or not, they've destroyed parcels before. The one which hurts the most was the rare early 1970s Aviation poster I sold. The iconic beaming Stewardess from a long-defunct Airline that disappeared in the 70s, promoting a long obsolete aircraft type. Those rare collectibles don't come along every day. The Buyer was so excited until I had to impart the bad news. In short, when you choose preferred Couriers, it has real-world consequences. 

4) Managed Payments. No issues from me. I suspect those needing quick cash-flow turnaround, especially the pseudo Private Sellers with £200k - £300k in Gold/Collectibles listings stock...oops, I meant to type 'personal possessions', may somewhat disagree.

So, the ball is in eBay's Court. I sincerely hope you do the one thing people on this Board are desperately crying out for,  which is not to empathise and to Hear, but to...Listen. It's not too late.

[bosley2016]

PS. I thought long and hard about putting my head above the parapet, as it places me slap bang in the crosshairs. But this matters. I can adapt to the changes - others can't or won't.

 

So to avoid any doubt...YES I am a Private seller, YES I have a full time job, YES my listings look businesslike because I work in customer services and I have a consistent approach to deliver the best Buying experience I can via superior packaging, detailed photo uploads and comprehensive item description, YES my Feedback attests to a great buying experience, YES I Collect as well as Sell from my previous Antiques career in a former life and 2 unplanned parental house clearances, and YES I am fully paid up and registered with HMRC for my eBay sales from April 2023 onwards, triggered by the 3 'D's linked to my (serial hoarder) parents : Death, Dementia, DoLS order.  So unless you walk in my shoes... Thanks for listening  x

[vinylscot]

You quoted "At worst, many (the silent majority in fact with complaints) will quietly and simply take their business, both as Buyer and Seller, elsewhere", and in many cases this can be true.

However, I think eBay are taking the equally valid opposite view that a lot of noise is being made by a tiny minority, and that, in actuality the attrition rate will be wholly manageable.

They will have gamed this extensively, and will know they will lose some users. They will also realise that -

1) In the main (not all), those who leave will be users they can well do without - they either contribute little to eBay, or abuse their facilities

2) There is no alternative marketplace which can begin to compete with eBay in terms of reach or results. So few will actually leave, and many of them will return. 

This will blow over. There may be some slight tweaks to SD, but in some form it's here to stay.

I agree with you 100% that eBay's communication needs to become vastly better, much clearer, and frankly much more honest. The 20% cheaper example you give is a good illustration of this - it's a bald claim they have made, with no evidence to back it up, and seems to be patently false in almost every conceivable example.

[billus89]

@bosley2016 Honestly, I couldn't have said it any better - possibly the best post i've seen here.

We are very much alike in everything you have said.

I am one of the "I've been here +16 years and now its time to hang up my coat".

I just hope that this post gets noticed by those in the ivory tower.....

Will

[aphystykqa]

---

@bosley2016 wrote:

Anyone remember the end scene from that enchanting 2000 film, Castaway ? Chuck is standing at a Crossroads, and the decision he takes will dictate immediate future events. That's exactly where eBay UK is currently. In 5 years time, Business Schools will probably use the eBay Case Study of 2025 Q1 and Q2's far-reaching Board decisions, which ultimately sealed its fate. They'll discuss how either a) in acknowledging errors, bold decisions were taken to reverse an inevitable slide and terminal decline, or b) eBay UK withered away and slowly faded into oblivion.

I love eBay. I absolutely do, and I want it to succeed. I handle complaints for a living, and have for many years, for a major FTSE 100 listed company. I probably know more than most the ramifications when 'an expression of dissatisfaction' isn't effectively addressed. At best, the party will vocally air their views internally (See this Board for a plethora of examples where 20+ year long term Sellers are walking away) or externally. (CMA, FCA, Watchdog at the Beeb and MSM) At worst, many (the silent majority in fact with complaints) will quietly and simply take their business, both as Buyer and Seller, elsewhere. At the very worst, they tell others, friends and family...and this for a business is by far the most catastrophic.

I take my hat off to Kat and the team in Customer Services. They're doing their best in valiantly fighting fire after fire with buckets of water given to them from the powers up high. And judging by the outcome, those buckets contain kerosene. Far too often the 'benefits' statements justifying Managed Payments, BPF and SD are disingenuous. The reality though is Buyers suffer in paying a premium for something that already existed for most of the last 26 years. Furthermore, Sellers, particularly those who aren't tech savvy, the disabled and those who live rurally or don't drive...are all disadvantaged. 

But wait. It's not too late. There was a great quote on the Board about the old adage "if it's not broke, don't fix it." eBay's take recently seems to have been " if it's not broke, we'll fix it until it is broke." I get it - eBay aren't a Charity and want to maximise revenue streams. Nothing wrong with that, but in implementing the changes they have, they've lost the one thing with Buyers and Sellers that you simply can't put a price on...Goodwill.

So, if Eve Williams and Co. are listening, here's a few things I think may help, which are raised in the spirit of co-operation and ultimately support for a better eBay in the very near future.

1) Communication. Honest, transparent and consistent. Drip feeding and statements which Sellers regard as plainly false, don't help. The '20% cheaper postage' statement is a case in point.

2) BPF. Be brave and bin it. Go back instead to the old model of bi-weekly FVF Promotional Weekends. (80%, 70%, £1). Or worst case, instead levy an equivalent 75p + 4% SPF. Saying 'It's Free to Sell" sounds less appetising when complemented by "It's Not Free to Buy". Many Sellers, myself included, are happy to pay Fees. After all, eBay are providing a welcome Win Win Service connecting two parties.

3) SD. Retain the Custom Postage manual opt-out and let Sellers continue to decide how they package and Send an item AFTER a Sale, and not BEFORE. Many have their reasons for distrusting SD - whether it be personal circumstances or in my case, a desire to avoid certain carriers. Delivery reliability is paramount as I want my items to arrive intact at the other end. I've been close to tears hearing Positive Feedback and Messages from Buyers of items I've sold. Just one example - The £2 glass figurine replacing the sentimental value one broken in their childhood in the 1960s...finally found and purchased.

I absolutely trust Evri to deliver my elderly mum's Pads. There's an analogy there about s**t happens...but I won't go there. From experience though, whether unintentionally or not, they've destroyed parcels before. The one which hurts the most was the rare early 1970s Aviation poster I sold. The iconic beaming Stewardess from a long-defunct Airline that disappeared in the 70s, promoting a long obsolete aircraft type. Those rare collectibles don't come along every day. The Buyer was so excited until I had to impart the bad news. In short, when you choose preferred Couriers, it has real-world consequences. 

4) Managed Payments. No issues from me. I suspect those needing quick cash-flow turnaround, especially the pseudo Private Sellers with £200k - £300k in Gold/Collectibles listings stock...oops, I meant to type 'personal possessions', may somewhat disagree.

So, the ball is in eBay's Court. I sincerely hope you do the one thing people on this Board are desperately crying out for,  which is not to empathise and to Hear, but to...Listen. It's not too late.

---

That's an Epic post and I agree wholeheartedly with it 👍

Some have mentioned/speculated in this Ebay community forum, that by Ebay-UK introducing Mandatory Simple Delivery - Ebay makes a £1 profit on every parcel sent. If that is the case, then it would be just as easy for Ebay-UK to switch back to Optional Simple Delivery - and instead charge a £1 fee to every Private Seller who wished to use the alternative Postal systems - such as simply being able to use the Post Office Counter Service, like I've done for 22 years - and have never done anything different, nor would I ever wish to.

As for Evri postal service, well, No Thankyou lol. Their 'Excluded from compensation' list is inexcusable.

https://www.evri.com/send/what-i-can-and-cannot-send 

Will Ebay-UK change their minds ? ? - well, I won't hold my breath.. 🙄🙄

[*vyolla*]

Excellent post @bosley2016 

[onefootinthepast2010]

Great letter will ebay read it ? been on ebay for 25 years ( when it was the US site) and every improvement they make worse than the one  before . onefootinthepast2010

[*maetrix*]

Can we start a crowd funder for Eve Williams' brain transplant.

[andyf117]

I'm 100% with you - been here 25 years, and though it's no longer 'fun' like it was at first, I too love eBay (although some viewing a few of my posts in another thread in particular might think otherwise!)...

I fully realise that every business needs to adapt and evolve, and in the past eBay have made some annoying "it's not broken, but let's fix it anyway" decisions, but none so major that the vast majority couldn't in turn adapt to.

The introductions of the BPF and SD in quick succession are, however, apparently in the opinions of many of us, utterly disastrous, and may indeed lead to the end of the platform either as we know and love (and sometimes hate) it, or altogether. That, of course, remains to be seen.

From what I've read there are quite a few making complaints and reports to bodies such as the CMA and the Financial Ombudsman, some of which may escalate, possibly, ultimately, to the FCA - the majority seem to revolve around consumer rights, restrictive practices, etc.

I, personally, have made formal complaints to eBay about both BPF and SD - and though I have not had 'satisfactory' responses to either, a very interesting statement was made in reply to the BPF one, specificaly in relation to there being no provision to 'opt out' of the BPF, as it offers no added benefit to the protections already in place from PayPal, credit card companies and carriers.

The CS agent who responded to my follow-up to his original reply wrote: "I will also forwarded your feedback to our concerned team so that the option to opt out from this feature will be introduced in the upcoming site updates". 

Not senior management, obviously, but nevertheless not only has that statement been made, but another agent who then responded to the specific follow-up queries I made about the implementation of the 'opt out' not only didn't answer any of them, but signifcantly made no attempt whatsoever to either say it was incorrect, or roll it back altogether...

As for SD, as yet, I'm awaiting a response to my follow-up to the vague 'non-reply' to my original queries about how eBay intends to restore my consumer rights to choose the services which best meet my needs and provide me with the best value for money - which the restrictive SD system clearly does not.

[vinylscot]

Unfortunately, much as I would like to believe it, the response from the CS agent was almost certainly written by someone who does not have English as a first language ("I will also forwarded"). They should probably have used the word "may" rather than "will", so as to indicate a possibility, rather than a certainty. Again, this is eBay's fault - how can they trust agents to deal with queries properly, when they can't speak the language sufficiently well?

I wouldn't hold your breath.

[lucy_farmer]

This is one of the most reasonable, calmest and readable  posts on the current mess, that I have ever read. 

And I agree with every word.😊

[andyf117]

Oh, I'm not, hence the reference to them not being senior management - nonetheless, it is a written statement which someone could metaphorically beat eBay around the head with in due course...

[andyf117]

..........

[*maetrix*]

Probably "written" by a robot..the entire place seems to have been taken over by bots.

They should rename themselves "Ai-bay".

[moonlight-rhapsody]

Thank you for encapsulating the current situation in such an articulate way.  I agree wholeheartedly with what you’ve said. Whilst I feel that sadly it will fall on deaf ears vis-a-vis ebay management, that shouldn’t stop us at least *trying* to get ebay to bring some sanity back to their buying and selling procedures.

[lyndylooops]

If only they would swallow their pride and use wisdom experience, some intelligence and common sense and listen to and learn from  feedback from their bread and butter they and we wouldn't be in this mess. They had the golden egg, a 'go to' place in the market and they smashed it to smithereens against a wall of greed and misguided attempts to take on better set ups.  As per Pretty Woman "Big Mistake. Huge!"  Google even hates Ebay now - hardly any results showing on first page.  SEO has always been bad (internal search Cassini has been off with the fairies for ages) but now it's like they're using an invisibility cloak. Possibly from everyone not listing or buying elsewhere but probably because they've been throwing money at change for changes sake gambles rather than solid customer service, and SEO which escalates into a healthy vibrant marketplace.  It really does feel like they've handed over to green behind the ears work experience  'have a goers'! Please some enterprise with a business head fill the gap quickly - you could be up and running and seducing sellers, buyers and  Google et al way, way before the numpties at Ebay stop running round like headless chicken long enough to see the light! 

[*devils.advocate*]

Oh, come on now.

They're in a stew but they're still laughing al the way to the Bank.

[bosley2016]

Really appreciate all the kind words and feedback on this thread. I genuinely think these coming weeks will shape the future of eBay UK. Whilst I hold out a faint candle of hope, I see no point in ranting and raving on the current situation, though respect others' right to do so. I think one thing we can all agree on, is if the Board continue on its current trajectory, the future of eBay in this country is less than rosy.

[1956glyn]

Ha ha i am wondering how many on the boards will remember Benny lol

[thetimetower]

I'd agree with everything except "if it ain't broke don't fix it". It's been broken for business sellers for a long time. It overfixed i'd say. Private sellers who are really businesses been absolutely rinsing us for years. Unfortunately ebay have classed every private seller as a business which hurts everyone. Personally my sales haven't changed much. I'd say i sell  the same now as ever. What has changed tho is Ebay's greed when it comes to promotional listings. They did away with Promoted Express where u paid a fixed fee to get promotion. Now they've removed the min per click limit from priority (Used to be able to pay 5p a click and get some sales. now it's 20p-30p min and £17 a  day min budget which is extortionate considering it barely converts).

I don't think the way they are changing things is beneficial for anyone, even them tho.